Horner
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: location location
Posts: 3,035
Bikes: MBK Super Mirage 1991, CAAD10, Yuba Mundo Lux, and a Cannondale Criterium Single Speed
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 297 Times
in
207 Posts
Its going to be a rough few years for GT jersey winners with LA at el. I just wish we could get past this. Why do we have 7+ articles from Velo, cyclingnews stipulating did these guys dope? Innocent until proven guilty, its just a bummer that these guys can't embrace such a win without being riddled with questions.
#27
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Had they checked ADAMS, they would not have gone to the wrong hotel. I think that's the point.
Last edited by roadwarrior; 09-17-13 at 10:59 AM.
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 693
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
2 Posts
A 41 year old winning his first Grand Tour by riding away from the likes of Purito and Valverde up the steepest mountains in Spain would draw questions no matter what era it happened in. Throw in all the Lance stuff and the hotel screw-up, and there looks to be some smoke blowing around and lots of people looking for a fire.
A 41 year old that was part of the LA dynasty.
I love watching pro cycling, I admire what these athletes do and have some understanding of what it takes. But it is going to take a few years without major doping scandals before I see a rider in the top 20 of any race and be confident they are not doping. Much more so for one my age winning a grand tour.
#29
Senior Member
#30
Heretic
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 2,246
Bikes: Specialized Sirrus, Giant OCR3, Giant CRS3
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2827 Post(s)
Liked 561 Times
in
429 Posts
The point is also about the fact this appeared in the media before the mistake was discovered.
Last edited by Caretaker; 09-17-13 at 02:37 PM.
#31
velo-dilettante
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: insane diego, california
Posts: 8,316
Bikes: 85 pinarello treviso steel, 88 nishiki olympic steel. 95 look kg 131 carbon, 11 trek madone 5.2 carbon
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1628 Post(s)
Liked 3,114 Times
in
1,683 Posts
arguably the greatest american roadie ever given his absolute domestic dominance and later european success-riding much of it as a super-domestique.
people will argue armstrong (maybe not anymore) or lemond but greg's pro career was shorter. granted, he does have 3 tdf's and a few wc's.
people will argue armstrong (maybe not anymore) or lemond but greg's pro career was shorter. granted, he does have 3 tdf's and a few wc's.
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 5,752
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4390 Post(s)
Liked 3,016 Times
in
1,865 Posts
A 41 year old winning his first Grand Tour by riding away from the likes of Purito and Valverde up the steepest mountains in Spain would draw questions no matter what era it happened in. Throw in all the Lance stuff and the hotel screw-up, and there looks to be some smoke blowing around and lots of people looking for a fire.
#33
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Yes, they would have access. It is actually administered by WADA. It is in twelve languages. And I totally agree with your last sentence. Which is why there will probably be a punitive lawsuit filed.
#34
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
A 41 year old winning his first Grand Tour by riding away from the likes of Purito and Valverde up the steepest mountains in Spain would draw questions no matter what era it happened in. Throw in all the Lance stuff and the hotel screw-up, and there looks to be some smoke blowing around and lots of people looking for a fire.
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,639
Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997
Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times
in
31 Posts
He always climbs standing, for as long as I've been watching him. Not "indefinitely", more like for ten minutes.
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 2,318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
arguably the greatest american roadie ever given his absolute domestic dominance and later european success-riding much of it as a super-domestique.
people will argue armstrong (maybe not anymore) or lemond but greg's pro career was shorter. granted, he does have 3 tdf's and a few wc's.
people will argue armstrong (maybe not anymore) or lemond but greg's pro career was shorter. granted, he does have 3 tdf's and a few wc's.
He also has a junior WC, and two podium finishes at the WC to go along with his 2 rainbow jerseys.
#38
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,303
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 727 Times
in
372 Posts
arguably the greatest american roadie ever given his absolute domestic dominance and later european success-riding much of it as a super-domestique.
people will argue armstrong (maybe not anymore) or lemond but greg's pro career was shorter. granted, he does have 3 tdf's and a few wc's.
people will argue armstrong (maybe not anymore) or lemond but greg's pro career was shorter. granted, he does have 3 tdf's and a few wc's.
Not even close. Lemond's an order of magnitude above Horner. Hampsten's above Horner.
If we're talking domestic success, Horner didn't win as much as Davis Phinney, who also has 2 TDF stage wins, to Horner's zero.
And if you don't consider doping, you've got to put Armstrong, Hamilton, and Landis above Horner.
And what is this European success? Other than the Veulta win, what do you have 9th place in the TDF? 5th in the Tour de Suisse?
In fact the pattern appears rather smelly: Giro; One start, One DNF; Tour de France; 33rd, 61st,14th, DNF, 9th, DNF, 13th; Veulta; 20th, 36th, DNF, then 1st at age 41?
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#39
It's MY mountain
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Mt.Diablo
Posts: 10,002
Bikes: Klein, Merckx, Trek
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4338 Post(s)
Liked 2,980 Times
in
1,617 Posts
Domestically he's also won the San Francisco Grand Prix and Tour of California, Redlands multiple times, and Tour of Georgia.
He's a fun guy to watch, comparisons to Lemond and Phinney are just silly.
#40
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,303
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 727 Times
in
372 Posts
It's Vuelta. And he also has a Vuelta al País Basco in which he kicked arse on Valverde, Rodriguez, Sanchez, and Gesink including a win in the TT stage.
Domestically he's also won the San Francisco Grand Prix and Tour of California, Redlands multiple times, and Tour of Georgia.
He's a fun guy to watch, comparisons to Lemond and Phinney are just silly.
Domestically he's also won the San Francisco Grand Prix and Tour of California, Redlands multiple times, and Tour of Georgia.
He's a fun guy to watch, comparisons to Lemond and Phinney are just silly.
I think I'd be more exited about the Vuelta win, if I weren't so suspicuous, which is a sad commentary on the state of the sport now.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
6 Posts
I am happy for Horner. Having said that, I am very suspicious too. Just look at the people he defeated, and at the ripe old age of 41 too.
It also just so happened that he turned in this result of his life just as he'll need a new contract. That makes me suspicious. It just goes to show the damage dopers have done to pro cycling. It is gonna be a long long time before a grand tour winner is not viewed suspiciously as a doper. And that is a real shame.
It also just so happened that he turned in this result of his life just as he'll need a new contract. That makes me suspicious. It just goes to show the damage dopers have done to pro cycling. It is gonna be a long long time before a grand tour winner is not viewed suspiciously as a doper. And that is a real shame.
#42
Senior Member
#43
pan y agua
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 31,303
Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1447 Post(s)
Liked 727 Times
in
372 Posts
An insider's perspective https://cameronwurf.blogspot.com
His point that other riders would not tolerate it in this generation if a top rider was winning by doping, assumes that the other riders are not doping.
Again, I hope he's right, but one bitten, twice shy.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: location location
Posts: 3,035
Bikes: MBK Super Mirage 1991, CAAD10, Yuba Mundo Lux, and a Cannondale Criterium Single Speed
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 297 Times
in
207 Posts
I want to believe too, but it's going to take time.
#45
Senior Member
#47
Professional Fuss-Budget
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: location location
Posts: 3,035
Bikes: MBK Super Mirage 1991, CAAD10, Yuba Mundo Lux, and a Cannondale Criterium Single Speed
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 344 Post(s)
Liked 297 Times
in
207 Posts
I was reminded of that on that "100 years of the tour" doc that got shown here this year. The helicopter shots of different riders literally pointing fingers in the middle of a stopped peloton brought back some bad memories.
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 4,454
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times
in
10 Posts
On the regular-American-news-outlets-that-covered-Horner's-victory, you can add Grantland (an ESPN subsidiary aimed at a statistically- and culturally-aware crowd)
Chris Horner, the Unlikely American Cycling Hero
Nice article, trying to explain some of the basics of bike racing to the unfamiliar sports fan.
Unfortunately, it was posted at 5:30 PM on a Wednesday, and apparently most people who read Grantland check the website while at work.
Chris Horner, the Unlikely American Cycling Hero
...But with apologies to the real cycling fans of the Internet, I'm going to make five assumptions about you, the Grantland reader who stumbled on this article.
First, you've only ever heard of the Vuelta in passing, if at all, and ditto for Chris Horner.
Second, you're wondering why you should care.
Third, you lack some basic facts.
Fourth, the first word that comes to mind when you come across a cycling story is "doping."
Fifth, you've yet to encounter the poetic side of the sport...
First, you've only ever heard of the Vuelta in passing, if at all, and ditto for Chris Horner.
Second, you're wondering why you should care.
Third, you lack some basic facts.
Fourth, the first word that comes to mind when you come across a cycling story is "doping."
Fifth, you've yet to encounter the poetic side of the sport...
Unfortunately, it was posted at 5:30 PM on a Wednesday, and apparently most people who read Grantland check the website while at work.
__________________
"c" is not a unit that measures tire width
"c" is not a unit that measures tire width
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,639
Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997
Mentioned: 146 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times
in
31 Posts
Earlier in Wurf's blog, he recounts a conversation with Horner about what racing was like earlier in Horner's career. Horner said that back in the day he struggled to keep up with the peleton, even to make it to the feed zone in time for food. I wonder if he was telling young Wurf what it was like when doping was in full swing, and I also wonder if that has something to do with Horner's retreat to the US domestic racing scene for a decade in mid-career. I also wonder why he was, apparently, never accepted into the inner circle of top-level US pro racers in Europe.