Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Professional Cycling For the Fans Follow the Tour de France,the Giro de Italia, the Spring Classics, or other professional cycling races? Here's your home...

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-17-14, 06:01 AM   #1
CrankyOne
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
CrankyOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 1,821
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Lance: Life in Purgatory

Nothing earth shattering though perhaps interesting for some.

Lance in Purgatory: The After-Life - Esquire
CrankyOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 01:28 PM   #2
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Bike Business!!!
Bikes: Cannondale Super Six High Mod, Evo, Sram Red, CAAD9 Rival
Posts: 10,497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah....REAL bike racing is personal. Very personal.

And he won those races.

And Floyd's Stage 17 ride in the '06 Tour is still one of the greatest I have ever seen.
roadwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 03:13 PM   #3
dstrong 
Senior Member
 
dstrong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Awesome, Austin, TX
Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Interloc Impala, ParkPre Image C6
Posts: 3,832
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
And Floyd's Stage 17 ride in the '06 Tour is still one of the greatest I have ever seen.
Was that really 8 years ago? I remember standing in the break area at work watching that.
__________________

2014 Specialized RoubaixOOOOOO 2003 Interloc ImpalaOOOOOO 2007 ParkPre Image C6 (RIP)

dstrong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-14, 03:40 PM   #4
Sailor73
Senior Member
 
Sailor73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Philly Burbs
Bikes:
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Just finished up Wheelmen yesterday so it's interesting to read this article today. This is the first piece in Lance's blueprint for getting back in the spotlight.
Sailor73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-14, 04:49 AM   #5
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Bike Business!!!
Bikes: Cannondale Super Six High Mod, Evo, Sram Red, CAAD9 Rival
Posts: 10,497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor73 View Post
Just finished up Wheelmen yesterday so it's interesting to read this article today. This is the first piece in Lance's blueprint for getting back in the spotlight.
Juliet Macur's book "Cycle of Lies" is also a good read.

The end of "Slaying the Badger" last night was also pretty interesting...
roadwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-14, 06:21 PM   #6
Slackerprince
Redefining Lazy
 
Slackerprince's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Tampa via PDX, Summers on LV-426
Bikes: 2013 Cannondale Synapse 5 105, 2013 Giant Escape 3
Posts: 1,906
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Drinking more and playing golf...
Purgatory is hellish.
I still like the book, The Secret Race. I read it in a weekend.
Slogging through Big George's book now. Yawn.

S
Slackerprince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 08:28 AM   #7
nun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Bikes: Rivendell Quickbeam, Rivendell Rambouillet, Rivendell Atlantis, Circle A town bike, De Rosa Neo Primato, Cervelo RS
Posts: 3,273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slackerprince View Post
Drinking more and playing golf...
Purgatory is hellish.
I still like the book, The Secret Race. I read it in a weekend.
Slogging through Big George's book now. Yawn.

S
The paragraph that questions the motives of the people who spoke out about US Postal doping is really jarring.
Landis just broke when he was rebuffed by Armstrong...so much for loyalty, and the continuing criticism
of Betsy Andreu is pretty pathetic.

The final section where he's being paid to spend time with those Wall St. guys at a cycling camp is sort of sad.
If he had come forward with the rest of his team mates when given the chance by USADA maybe there would be a way back
for him into the world of cycling. It's not so much the doping, its the manner of the doping and the deceit and as
the leader he is blamed for all of that. Riders like Hincapie might not ever be involved with professional cycling
again, but they'll be able to sell bikes and jerseys and have the admiration and respect of most people in cycling.
I just don't think people like Armstrong and that's his biggest problem......until the scale of the bribery of UCI etc
comes out.

This video is really interesting and Lemond, Betsy Andreu and the USADA General Council get into some fantastic detail. I wonder if manslaughter or even greater
charges could be brought against many of the doctors and team managers who organized the doping regimes of the 1990s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLVOCV5Nlms

Last edited by nun; 10-07-14 at 09:01 AM.
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 09:00 AM   #8
canam73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Haunchyville
Bikes:
Posts: 6,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
The final section where he's being paid to spend time with those Wall St. guys at a cycling camp is sort of sad.
If he had come forward with the rest of his team mates when given the chance by USADA maybe there would be a way back
for him into the world of cycling. It's not so much the doping, its the manner of the doping and the deceit and as
the leader he is blamed for all of that. Riders like Hincapie might not ever be involved with professional cycling
again, but they'll be able to sell bikes and jerseys and have the admiration and respect of most people in cycling.
I just don't think people like Armstrong and that's his biggest problem......until the scale of the bribery of UCI etc
comes out.
Does anyone know more about the final USADA deal? Seems like there must be more to that story.

I have the surface story correct, in later 2012 Lance was told what would happen to him and given one last chance to work with USADA for a probably reduced penalty, but stuck to his story, was banned, and then by 1/2013 was on Oprah admitting to most of what he was suspended for with no change to his status.

While it could be that dumb, it just seems like some major component is missing from that story.
canam73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 09:01 AM   #9
chewa
The Flying Scot
 
chewa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North Queensferry Scotland and London (and France)
Bikes: Custom (Colin Laing) 531c fast tourer/audax, 1964 Flying Scot Continental, 1995 Cinelli Supercorsa, Holdsworth Mistral single speed, Dahon Speed 6 (folder), Micmo Sirocco and a few more
Posts: 1,902
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I thought he was Voldemort? (He who cannot be named)?

I can forgive the doping (read David Millars book - Riding through the Dark - and you understand the pressure these guys were under), but he ruined other peoples lives (those he crushed when they suggested he wsn't clean)

Tyler's book reveals a very dark side to him.

I remember watching those day after day superb rides in mountain stages. I also remember thinking "What is he on?"
__________________
plus je vois les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens

1985 Sandy Gilchrist-Colin Laing built 531c Audax/fast tourer.
1964 Flying Scot Continental (531)
1995 Cinelli Supercorsa (Columbus SLX)
1980s Holdsworth Mistral fixed (531)
2005 Dahon Speed 6 (folder)
(YES I LIKE STEEL)
2008 Viking Saratoga tandem
2008 Micmo Sirocco Hybrid (aluminium!)
2012 BTwin Rockrider 8.1
chewa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 12:23 PM   #10
roadwarrior
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Bike Business!!!
Bikes: Cannondale Super Six High Mod, Evo, Sram Red, CAAD9 Rival
Posts: 10,497
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewa View Post
I thought he was Voldemort? (He who cannot be named)?

I can forgive the doping (read David Millars book - Riding through the Dark - and you understand the pressure these guys were under), but he ruined other peoples lives (those he crushed when they suggested he wsn't clean)

Tyler's book reveals a very dark side to him.

I remember watching those day after day superb rides in mountain stages. I also remember thinking "What is he on?"
What everybody else was on. He was just better at it. Like a lot of other things.

And he made a lot of people a lot of money...
roadwarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 01:35 PM   #11
asgelle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Bikes:
Posts: 3,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior View Post
What everybody else was on.
And the lie lives on.
asgelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 01:39 PM   #12
canam73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Haunchyville
Bikes:
Posts: 6,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
And the lie lives on.
Ooh, what's the truth? Where you like there or something? Or do you know a guy who knows?
canam73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 01:42 PM   #13
asgelle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Bikes:
Posts: 3,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
Ooh, what's the truth? Where you like there or something? Or do you know a guy who knows?
At this point, to be unaware of the evidence takes willful ignorance.
asgelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 01:50 PM   #14
canam73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Haunchyville
Bikes:
Posts: 6,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
At this point, to be unaware of the evidence takes willful ignorance.
I'm trying to get better about that.

So let me in on the secret, other than what he admitted to, what was he on? Top secret government stuff?
canam73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 01:53 PM   #15
Hypno Toad
meh
 
Hypno Toad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Minnesota
Bikes: 15 Surly Pugsley; 09 Kona Dew Drop, 13 Felt Z85; 11 Globe Daily: 96 Mondonico
Posts: 2,310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Before Lance, the Tour de France and professional cycling was clean of any "enhancing drugs"...

Tom Simpson's death on Mont Ventoux: "Two empty tubes and a half-full one of amphetamines (one of which was labelled "Tonedron") were found in the rear pocket of his jersey." Tom Simpson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hypno Toad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 01:54 PM   #16
asgelle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Bikes:
Posts: 3,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
I'm trying to get better about that.

So let me in on the secret, other than what he admitted to, what was he on? Top secret government stuff?
Who said he was on anything beside what he admitted to? No one else was able to follow the same program as he was (as documented repeatedly).
asgelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 01:58 PM   #17
canam73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Haunchyville
Bikes:
Posts: 6,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Who said he was on anything beside what he admitted to? No one else was able to follow the same program as he was (as documented repeatedly).
You're confusing me. If the lie is that he wasn't on "what everybody else was on" but I didn't hear him admit to being on anything that other cyclists haven't cheated with, and you are saying he wasn't on anything besides what he admitted to, what am I missing?
canam73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 02:10 PM   #18
asgelle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Bikes:
Posts: 3,211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by canam73 View Post
You're confusing me. If the lie is that he wasn't on "what everybody else was on" but I didn't hear him admit to being on anything that other cyclists haven't cheated with, and you are saying he wasn't on anything besides what he admitted to, what am I missing?
For example, If I use PED A from 2002 through 2004 and then switch to PED B from 2005 through 2009 while you only find out about A in 2003 and use it through 2007 before switching to B in 2008, were we on the same program? Some might say we used the same PED's, but in reality we were not at all on the same program.
asgelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 02:13 PM   #19
canam73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Haunchyville
Bikes:
Posts: 6,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
For example, If I use PED A from 2002 through 2004 and then switch to PED B from 2005 through 2009 while you only find out about A in 2003 and use it through 2007 before switching to B in 2008, were we on the same program? Some might say we used the same PED's, but in reality we were not at all on the same program.
Now you're getting really tricky. Lance was out of cycling from 2006-2008. Are you saying that is when he took the really good secret government drugs that nobody else had?
canam73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 02:45 PM   #20
RISKDR1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Bikes:
Posts: 490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lance created his own reality. Everything we say and do in life sends its consequences, good or bad, into the future where they wait for us and those in our sphere of responsibility. In Lances case that sphere of responsibility was huge. I guess I could have forgiven him for the doping inasmuch as it was rampant. What I can never forgive is how he used his power to bludgeon people with less power. Many of those people were in his sphere of responsibility and he breached that responsibility in many ways. Just my humble opinion.
RISKDR1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 03:02 PM   #21
nun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Bikes: Rivendell Quickbeam, Rivendell Rambouillet, Rivendell Atlantis, Circle A town bike, De Rosa Neo Primato, Cervelo RS
Posts: 3,273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Doping has been in cycling since the start and it's dangers are obvious from the Simpson tragedy...and that should be reason enough to do everything possible to get rid of it. If a cyclist is doping on their own then I feel it's a lower level offense than team management coercing riders to dope. If the doping results in death one might be classed as suicide and the other as manslaughter. The rash of cyclists that died in the early 1990s could have been criminal if they were encouraged to overdose on EPO by team doctors and managers.

If Armstrong had come forward with the rest of US Postal he might still have those TDF victories, but I suspect he didn't because the doping is the least of the crimes. He wanted to avoid being under oath and has admitted the least possible. He could throw UCI etc under the bus, but he'd have to throw himself under the same bus too.
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 04:51 PM   #22
MinnMan
Senior Member
 
MinnMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Bikes: 2011 Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220, 1991 Bianchi Osprey
Posts: 2,028
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
Doping has been in cycling since the start and it's dangers are obvious from the Simpson tragedy...and that should be reason enough to do everything possible to get rid of it. If a cyclist is doping on their own then I feel it's a lower level offense than team management coercing riders to dope. If the doping results in death one might be classed as suicide and the other as manslaughter. The rash of cyclists that died in the early 1990s could have been criminal if they were encouraged to overdose on EPO by team doctors and managers.

If Armstrong had come forward with the rest of US Postal he might still have those TDF victories, but I suspect he didn't because the doping is the least of the crimes. He wanted to avoid being under oath and has admitted the least possible. He could throw UCI etc under the bus, but he'd have to throw himself under the same bus too.

purgatory isn't under the bus?
MinnMan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 05:23 PM   #23
Leinster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 2,095
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
Before Lance, the Tour de France and professional cycling was clean of any "enhancing drugs"...

Tom Simpson's death on Mont Ventoux: "Two empty tubes and a half-full one of amphetamines (one of which was labelled "Tonedron") were found in the rear pocket of his jersey." Tom Simpson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Supposedly, one of the funny things about the '99/'05 L'Equipe drug tests was that of all the positive retests they got from the unused B samples, almost all were Armstrong's. Only a handful of the other positives came from the rest of the samples. The peloton Lance beat in '99 may well have been more free of EPO than any Tour De France since the 80s.
Leinster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 05:51 PM   #24
nun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Bikes: Rivendell Quickbeam, Rivendell Rambouillet, Rivendell Atlantis, Circle A town bike, De Rosa Neo Primato, Cervelo RS
Posts: 3,273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
Supposedly, one of the funny things about the '99/'05 L'Equipe drug tests was that of all the positive retests they got from the unused B samples, almost all were Armstrong's. Only a handful of the other positives came from the rest of the samples. The peloton Lance beat in '99 may well have been more free of EPO than any Tour De France since the 80s.
That might have been because of the hangover from the Festina affair.

One thing to note about Armstrong's career was that before his cancer he was good on flat stages, but not a great climber, his drug taking kept him competitive over flat stages, but did nothing for him in the mountains. Maybe it was the cancer changing his physiology and weight or just maturity, but after he came back it was his climbing ability that really changed.
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-14, 07:51 PM   #25
canam73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Haunchyville
Bikes:
Posts: 6,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
That might have been because of the hangover from the Festina affair.

One thing to note about Armstrong's career was that before his cancer he was good on flat stages, but not a great climber, his drug taking kept him competitive over flat stages, but did nothing for him in the mountains. Maybe it was the cancer changing his physiology and weight or just maturity, but after he came back it was his climbing ability that really changed.
Epo and transfusions didn't help him one bit in the mountains? Not one single bit?

And with whatever crap you say, how do you know?
canam73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:58 AM.