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Old 07-21-14, 03:31 PM   #76
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Is Quintana regretting not riding TDF?
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Old 07-21-14, 03:33 PM   #77
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I'll acknowledge Talansky is a moron if the article is not hogwash exaggeration. And he's not working harder than his teammates, if it weren't them, he would suck. They do most of the work for him... His job is to just finish, which he failed.

I'll be happy when the younger riders take over the scene. Contador, Froume, Wiggins, they need to be buried. Sick of Team Sky and Astana. F them.
Curious where the anamous comes from when it comes to AC, Froome or Wiggins? All 'recent' champions of the tour. Both Contador and Froome were favorites to win the tour this year. They are the best riders in the world and yet you disdain them. Its you pal who are sad, they are champions and you ain't.
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Old 07-21-14, 04:31 PM   #78
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I was impressed that Talansky finished that stage, but when I found out he didn't start the next day, I thought it was because he was eliminated the day before. I was shocked to find out he that he simply didn't start, even though he made the time limit. What was the point of that? It was interesting... but a long, long way from heroic. I get lots of TV coverage here (with Phil and Paul), so I didn't think the coverage of Talansky was over the top. I enjoyed the story of whether or not he'd make the time limit, but it wasn't the only story that was being told that day.

When Cavendish crashed, he got back on his bike and crossed the line... to ensure he at least had the opportunity to continue racing if his medical problems turned out not to be as bad as they were. No such luck. I assume Froome didn't break both his hands on his last crash, so continuing to race with a broken hand is amazing. But for me, the biggest "OMG, I can't believe he did that" moment was Contador. Ride 20km up, what I think was a Cat 1 climb, with a broken leg?? Good Lord.

I read the NYT article, and I would agree with the other posters who say it is disrespectful to Froome, Cavendish, and Contador. I dismissed the article as typical American hyperbole. But that's OK. It's an American writer, in an American newspaper, writing about an American athlete. I'd never expect to read anything close to balanced thought.... regardless of the "credibility" of the author.

There is a massive difference between pain and injury. Froome, Cavendish, and Contador were injured. They didn't quit. Talansky was in a lot of pain. I never heard if he was "injured" in the same sense as the other three. And I'm not so stupid to believe that you have to have a broken bone to be injured. All those crashes had to have added up. But I still don't understand why he didn't start the next stage though....that was weird.

IMO pro cyclists are the toughest of the tough. All of them. I don't care what country they are from.
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Old 07-21-14, 04:38 PM   #79
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It's sports. He gets paid to ride his bike for a living. The words epic, heroic and courageous aren't appropriate. He did a nice job finishing the stage...the end.
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Old 07-21-14, 05:18 PM   #80
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Although I am not awed by Talansky finishing the stage (I certainly pulled for him during the Dauphine) I think a few here are missing the point as to why he finished and as to why it was important to him as a rider. The article actually got this part right, at least.

It's not about perseverance now. It's about the future.

If you climb off your bike when things are tough, ONCE, then the next time it just gets a little bit easier to climb off again. Then, that internal dialogue you have with yourself when you are suffering in a break or on a climb or in brutal cross winds, that inner voice telling you to just ease off for a moment, to sit up, to let the gap open wins. You start listening to your legs.

Once you do that your career is over. Once that voice gains a foothold in your head you start drifting backwards and start finding yourself further and further from the podium because it became just too easy to stop the pain by giving in, even a little.

A quick anecdote.

We have a race here with a final climb that finishes at just above 3200m. The climb is over 50km long. It is brutal in places and get hardest above 2000m where it constantly pitches into double digits.

In my last year of racing and running a team I was feeling pretty crappy before this race and so decided to drive the team car and hand my numbers off to a buddy from the industry who wanted to do the race but hadn't registered. I'm white, he's white, he wasn't going to finish on the podium so we figured no one would notice or care.

So we were above 2400m and I was parked in the last feed zone feeding our guys. The main bunch and the various stragglers had all gone by when my friend comes into view, obviously suffering, and comes to a stop behind our team car. He told me he was done.

I said ok and took his bike from him. Then I asked him a question. I asked, "Later, what story do you want to tell?"

He said, "What?"

I asked, "Tomorrow, what story do you want to tell? Do you want to tell the story of getting into the team car or the one about the epic ride to the finish and how much you suffered to get there?"

He climbed back on his bike.

He still thanks me to this day.

That's why Talansky needed to finish. If this guy is ever going to be a real tour contender he needed to finish the stage. It needed to be the team doctor telling him not to start the next day, not the voice in his head.
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Old 07-21-14, 05:26 PM   #81
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I'll acknowledge Talansky is a moron if the article is not hogwash exaggeration. And he's not working harder than his teammates, if it weren't them, he would suck.
He does not "suck" and neither do any of the other riders who make it to the TdF.
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Old 07-21-14, 05:28 PM   #82
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Although I am not awed by Talansky finishing the stage (I certainly pulled for him during the Dauphine) I think a few here are missing the point as to why he finished and as to why it was important to him as a rider. The article actually got this part right, at least.

It's not about perseverance now. It's about the future.

If you climb off your bike when things are tough, ONCE, then the next time it just gets a little bit easier to climb off again. Then, that internal dialogue you have with yourself when you are suffering in a break or on a climb or in brutal cross winds, that inner voice telling you to just ease off for a moment, to sit up, to let the gap open wins. You start listening to your legs.

Once you do that your career is over. Once that voice gains a foothold in your head you start drifting backwards and start finding yourself further and further from the podium because it became just too easy to stop the pain by giving in, even a little.

A quick anecdote.

We have a race here with a final climb that finishes at just above 3200m. The climb is over 50km long. It is brutal in places and get hardest above 2000m where it constantly pitches into double digits.

In my last year of racing and running a team I was feeling pretty crappy before this race and so decided to drive the team car and hand my numbers off to a buddy from the industry who wanted to do the race but hadn't registered. I'm white, he's white, he wasn't going to finish on the podium so we figured no one would notice or care.

So we were above 2400m and I was parked in the last feed zone feeding our guys. The main bunch and the various stragglers had all gone by when my friend comes into view, obviously suffering, and comes to a stop behind our team car. He told me he was done.

I said ok and took his bike from him. Then I asked him a question. I asked, "Later, what story do you want to tell?"

He said, "What?"

I asked, "Tomorrow, what story do you want to tell? Do you want to tell the story of getting into the team car or the one about the epic ride to the finish and how much you suffered to get there?"

He climbed back on his bike.

He still thanks me to this day.

That's why Talansky needed to finish. If this guy is ever going to be a real tour contender he needed to finish the stage. It needed to be the team doctor telling him not to start the next day, not the voice in his head.
Perfect.
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Old 07-21-14, 06:52 PM   #83
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Did asgelle come back and explain live feed to me yet? I've been in suspense for days.

And apparently I am not the One, as prophesied by Longbeachgary on page 1, who saw it as I did. Others seem to have similar thoughts.

Again, not to take anything away from any of the TdF competitors, Mr. Talansky included.

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Old 07-21-14, 06:59 PM   #84
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He does not "suck" and neither do any of the other riders who make it to the TdF.
Discussion with Mr. Zymphad is without point, hope or fruit. Best case: don't make eye contact and just walk away.
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Old 07-21-14, 07:03 PM   #85
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I'm with RollCNY, Machka and c0lnago - Nothing to hero worship here w/Talansky. Nice job gritting it out. That's all.

I found Ms. Macur's fluff piece a horribly one-sided, jock-sniffing account of the events. How's this for the an equally crazy other-side of the coin? What was he doing on the side of the road mid-ride with Robbie Hunter, (Asst?) Team Director? Did he have to pull off the side of the road, dismount his bike and sit on the guardrail to better tell his Dir that he wanted to continue because he didn't want to let his teammates down?

And the author's choice of words to describe the withdrawals by Cav, Froome and Contador was poor to say the least.

I don't recall who mentioned it, but what about Tiago Machado's mid-stage visit to the ambulance? Since his racing number doesn't end with "1," I suspect he simply didn't rate enough for TV coverage. Rough.
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Old 07-21-14, 07:04 PM   #86
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I don't disagree. But, when you see that kind of determination it is important to acknowledge it IMO. All of them... as you suggest. I have no problem with that. I think it may have been Greg LeMond who once said "To win the Tour you must know how to suffer." Having played football through college I thought I knew what that meant but I really discovered it's meaning when I started cycling. Strangely I enjoy pushing myself beyond my limits even at age 68. It's actually one of the primary reasons I ride. Makes me feel like an athlete again.
Good post. I also just read about your unthinkable injury to your spine and what had to be an excruciating and frightening recovery not knowing what level your life would return to. To me, that's courage. What Talansky did was perhaps admirable but not extraordinary. My opinion only.
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Old 07-21-14, 07:49 PM   #87
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Maybe if Talansky could hold his line in a sprint he wouldn't be getting dropped and having to ride in solo. Not sure how thats inspirational anyways... Next time I get dropped I guess I'll inspire people.
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Old 07-21-14, 08:46 PM   #88
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...and I think he was yelling at one of the many riders that shouldered him in the sprint right before he ultimately veered into the pavement.
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Old 07-21-14, 10:03 PM   #89
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Old 07-22-14, 07:15 AM   #90
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Did asgelle come back and explain live feed to me yet? I've been in suspense for days.
Sorry, I just assumed as a media critic that you would have a thorough understanding of such things. As I said before, NBC has no cameras covering the race (on the road) but relies on French TV to provide the video image. NBC's announcers the provide audio over the images they are given. It's not that unusual. Virtually the same system is used for events such as Formula 1 and the Olympics.

Hope that helps.
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Old 07-22-14, 07:31 AM   #91
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Although I am not awed by Talansky finishing the stage (I certainly pulled for him during the Dauphine) I think a few here are missing the point as to why he finished and as to why it was important to him as a rider. The article actually got this part right, at least.

It's not about perseverance now. It's about the future.

If you climb off your bike when things are tough, ONCE, then the next time it just gets a little bit easier to climb off again. Then, that internal dialogue you have with yourself when you are suffering in a break or on a climb or in brutal cross winds, that inner voice telling you to just ease off for a moment, to sit up, to let the gap open wins. You start listening to your legs.

Once you do that your career is over. Once that voice gains a foothold in your head you start drifting backwards and start finding yourself further and further from the podium because it became just too easy to stop the pain by giving in, even a little.

A quick anecdote.

We have a race here with a final climb that finishes at just above 3200m. The climb is over 50km long. It is brutal in places and get hardest above 2000m where it constantly pitches into double digits.

In my last year of racing and running a team I was feeling pretty crappy before this race and so decided to drive the team car and hand my numbers off to a buddy from the industry who wanted to do the race but hadn't registered. I'm white, he's white, he wasn't going to finish on the podium so we figured no one would notice or care.

So we were above 2400m and I was parked in the last feed zone feeding our guys. The main bunch and the various stragglers had all gone by when my friend comes into view, obviously suffering, and comes to a stop behind our team car. He told me he was done.

I said ok and took his bike from him. Then I asked him a question. I asked, "Later, what story do you want to tell?"

He said, "What?"

I asked, "Tomorrow, what story do you want to tell? Do you want to tell the story of getting into the team car or the one about the epic ride to the finish and how much you suffered to get there?"

He climbed back on his bike.

He still thanks me to this day.

That's why Talansky needed to finish. If this guy is ever going to be a real tour contender he needed to finish the stage. It needed to be the team doctor telling him not to start the next day, not the voice in his head.

There you go. That is all that needs to be said.
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Old 07-22-14, 08:47 AM   #92
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Sorry, I just assumed as a media critic that you would have a thorough understanding of such things.
So to voice an opinion on coverage, which is what the OP asked, one must be a "media critic"?

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As I said before, NBC has no cameras covering the race (on the road) but relies on French TV to provide the video image.
So why didn't the posters in this thread in Tasmania and England have the exact same video feed covering Talansky? Does French TV provide different live feeds to different audiences? I am asking because I don't know. I am not asking to be a pain. I thought Porino had a camera on his motorcycle based upon some of the earlier stage reports, and they subbed in either his audio or his video for his "Inside the Race" segments.
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Old 07-22-14, 08:54 AM   #93
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Probably none of us know anybody that brave.
My father, as a 22 y.o., ran across the Bridge at Remagen under machine *** fire and bombs dropped from dive bombing Stukas. That was brave. It's all relative.
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Old 07-22-14, 07:21 PM   #94
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Watching the Tour de France on TVÖin FranceÖin French. July 21, 2012 by Rainmaker

In 2012 Ray Maker described watching the TdF in Paris. It might be useful for those interested in how different images get to different audiences from one video pool (my emphasis).

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Watching the Tour de France on TVÖin FranceÖin French.
July 21, 2012

Over the past week a lot of things got installed/hooked up/working in our little Paris apartment. Potentially one of the most important being our TV. Well, sorta. One of our TVís works 100%, and the other one works about every other day. Not sure what happened on the boat over, itís a bit cranky now.

At any rate, the Tour has been on in the background all week. Unlike watching it in the US, itís not an early morning affair here, but rather, an afternoon event. Most stages start around lunch time, depending on the length of the stage, and tend to finish around 5PM local time.

Unlike the US, the Tour here is broadcast on the non-cable channels. Meaning itís the equivalent of having it broadcast every day on your local NBC or CBS station, versus some cable-only station as in the US (like Versus/OLN, NBC Sports, or Universal NBC). I typically find it on France 2 or France 3. All I need to look for is ĎCyclismeí, and Iím golden.
...
(Sorry for the glare, taking photos of a glossy TV is tough!)

But just because Iím golden, it doesnít mean I stay golden. See, it moves around. While they always broadcast the whole stage from start to finish, it doesnít actually stay on the same channel (note above how this particular segment only lasts two hours). In order to avoid preempting all manner of shows, the TdF will actually change channels numerous times during the course of a given stage. There may well be warning of this audibly in French, but since I lack the language skills to pick up on that (yet), I just find out when my TV turns to a show on the Auroras Borealis upon returning from commercial break:

Because of the language barrier, Iíve turned to streaming either the US broadcast online or the Eurosport broadcast audio in the background via computer. Whatís interesting about this is that you get to see how each channel chooses to utilize the TdF provided video feeds (itís a common video source pool, and the various broadcasters get to decide how to format their shows). For example, while in the US youíll get lots of audio information about various local sights as the helicopters pan to them during the course of the race Ė here in France we get an entire diversion for some of these. For example, at one point last week there was a 1-2 minute focus on a local menís choir singing. During this, there was no cycling audio, only the menís choice, sometimes the video was split screen.

Or, the below, which was a soaring bird Ė which for the better part of 60 seconds included a solo piano piece, with no other audio: ...

Often times there were local music performances where the cycling was completely silenced, and only the local performance was heard. Interesting approach.

Finally, the post-race coverage blows away anything in the US. It can go on for literally an hour or more afterwards. It also tends to cover historical aspects of the race, sorta like some of the human interest pieces you might see during the Kona Ironman broadcast, or the Olympics.

With that, Iím back in the US for work and will be (for better or worse) watching the US coverage for Saturday and Sunday. Iím super-bummed that Iíll be missing the finale in Paris on Sunday just a short distance from our apartment. But hopefully The Girl will get some good photos and can put together a post for yíall.

Thanks for reading all! Have a great weekend!
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Old 07-22-14, 07:32 PM   #95
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So why didn't the posters in this thread in Tasmania and England have the exact same video feed covering Talansky? Does French TV provide different live feeds to different audiences? I am asking because I don't know. I am not asking to be a pain. I thought Porino had a camera on his motorcycle based upon some of the earlier stage reports, and they subbed in either his audio or his video for his "Inside the Race" segments.
Read that article posted earlier by never_recover (Post 50).

French TV provides a feed ... NBC in the US takes what they want from it, and SBS in Australia takes what they want from it. In addition to that, there are the motorcycle cameras, and stationary cameras at then end, etc. providing more coverage.

So a huge crew from NBC takes some from the French TV and some from their motorcycle cameras, and they put together a show with a focus mainly on US cyclists.

A small crew from SBS does the same, but they focus mainly on Australian cyclists.

I think there's a British one who do the same, but focus mainly on British cyclists ... and no doubt the French broadcast focuses on French cyclists.


So in the US, you probably got lots of coverage on Talansky ... but here in Australia, we just got little bits and pieces.


And in reading the post above ... in the Australian coverage, we often get segments on the "behind-the-scenes" aspects of the TDF. We watched a half hour of that last night just before the Tour came on at 10 pm. Then between 10 pm and 10:30 pm we got a review of the previous day, a segment on some of the cyclists and other stuff going on surrounding the tour, and of course Gabrielle Gate (do you get Gabrielle Gate in the US?). And finally about 10:30 pm, the "live" coverage started. That's quite typical.

Also, every time we return from a commercial break (of which there aren't many), they play a tune for about 30 seconds while we watch cyclists rolling along. Sometimes the footage is from the current race, presumably relatively "live" ... sometimes the footage is from one of the earlier stages. I get a kick out of the tunes ... they never use the same one twice, and some are rather obscure or funny. A few days ago, they played "Moving Right Along" with the Muppets ... yesterday they were doing a bluegrass theme with the tunes. Do you get that in the US?

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Old 07-22-14, 08:26 PM   #96
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Everything I've seen and heard indicates that the live video from the race course comes from French TV.

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France Televisions and Euro Media France are the two companies at the centre of the host broadcast production. Euro Media France are responsible for the technical solution to bring the on-course audio and video images back to the production rooms. France Television mix and produce the images so the feed can be distributed to licensed broadcasters.
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At the core of the live race broadcast is the use of five VHF wireless cameras on motorbikes, two journalists reporting from motorbikes, and images captured from two helicopters with Cineflex gyro-stabilised camera systems. The five cameras on motorbikes capture the drama of the race from within while the helicopters cover the race but also capture much of the beauty of the French countryside which is such a large part of the production. At the finish line there can be between 1 to 20 additional cameras in place (depending on the broadcasterís production) to capture rider interviews and the post-race action.
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There can be only one video feed that gets distributed to the licensed broadcasters of the race, otherwise there would be hundreds of cameras and multiple sets of infrastructure out on the course. That raw video feed is done by Euro Media Group and then passed onto France TV to mix and create a single feed for the rest of the broadcasters to wrap up in their own production. Pre and post race shows, interviews, commentary, on-screen graphics, advertising, etc. For example, NBC had 75 staff working at the Tour de France and 15 others back at the studio in the US putting the whole production together. In comparison, SBS for the first time had two crews at the Tour with with less than a dozen people bringing you all of their coverage.
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Old 07-22-14, 08:51 PM   #97
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Everything I've seen and heard indicates that the live video from the race course comes from French TV.
Where are you quoting from?
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Old 07-22-14, 09:04 PM   #98
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Where are you quoting from?
Athens80 was quoting from the same cyclingtips.au article referenced above.

Admittedly it may be a bit of an obscure source, being Australian and all.
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Old 07-22-14, 09:05 PM   #99
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Where are you quoting from?
The cyclingtips article you referenced from post #50 .
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Old 07-22-14, 09:06 PM   #100
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The cyclingtips article you referenced from post #50 .
Thanks ... I knew where you got those quotes, of course, but as you probably know, according to the copyright regulations here on bikeforums, you've got to at least reference your quotes.

Last edited by Machka; 07-22-14 at 09:10 PM.
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