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  1. #26
    Senior Member Chicago Al's Avatar
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    I wasn't paying attention to cycling when this happened...in fact not till about five years ago so I missed the LA excitement, too. Probably for the best, in that case!

    Anyway even for a noob like me it is fascinating to 'catch up' on events in cycling history like this. The documentary was a bit slick and at times drawn-out for my taste, but did provide enough detail and context for a complex picture to appear. And they had access to great archive footage--whoever was deciding at the time on what to do with Lemond made a brilliant decision to keep a camera with his wife!
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  2. #27
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    Lemond was gullible. After the importance of Hinault fifth Tour win, why would he believe they would throw away the sixth? They must have felt Hinault need him on the team to win the sixth so they told him what he wanted to hear. The BS by the then team coach about "no leader" is unbelievable crap. If Hinault had cracked and had little chance of winning, they would have rode for Lemond. Come on, why would an French run team not back the French cycling god?

  3. #28
    Senior Member mprelaw's Avatar
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    Koechli did have a point about LeMond never attacking, and only reacting to other riders' attacks. It's something that other riders, including Fignon in his later autobiography, criticized him for.

    But he acted honorably by gifting Hinault the stage on Alpe d'Huez.

    I'm not sure that Hinault knew any other way to race than to attack.

  4. #29
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    Koechli's point is fair, leadership can't be gifted or inherited by default. That role is never really yours until you have actively imposed your will upon others and earned their respect. LeMond probably misunderstood what Hinault considered to be a fraternal relationship. Very typical of the way brothers compete with each other.

  5. #30
    Senior Member Giacomo 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprince View Post
    Koechli's point is fair, leadership can't be gifted or inherited by default. That role is never really yours until you have actively imposed your will upon others and earned their respect.
    Yeah, LeMond will never be mistaken for Armstrong, who imposed his will like no other American athlete ever did, ever. Hinault would have wilted under Armstrongs will. All will, all the time...
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo 1 View Post
    Yeah, LeMond will never be mistaken for Armstrong, who imposed his will like no other American athlete ever did, ever. Hinault would have wilted under Armstrongs will. All will, all the time...
    I think Armstrong would have met his match with Hinault. Hinault won all three grand tours and all the classics, Armstrong was a tdf specialist. No comparison whatsoever.

  7. #32
    Senior Member Giacomo 1's Avatar
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    I respectively disagree.

    No other athlete, in any sport, in any country, was ever driven like Lance was. Drugs aside, he was truly driven to win at any cost, and pay any price. He was truly special and unique. Yes, he was a TDF specialist, but I think he would have subdued, nullified and buried Hinault in that race and forced Hinault into a supporting role in a way that LeMond just couldn't have. Hinault would have respected Lance and might have even been scared of him in a way that he never was with LeMond.

    I think that's why Armstrong and LeMond just never saw eye-to-eye....
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  8. #33
    Senior Member mprelaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprince View Post
    I think Armstrong would have met his match with Hinault. Hinault won all three grand tours and all the classics, Armstrong was a tdf specialist. No comparison whatsoever.
    Without EPO/transfusing, Armstrong would have never finished a Tour within half an hour of Hinault. Amphetamines, cortisone, testosterone et al can't get you from middle of the pack/stage contender to GC contender. Plus all of that was easily detectable by a piss test. EPO had a 10 year plus span when you could use it with impunity because it couldn't be detected.

    Hinault won his very first Tour, and never finished off the podium in any GT that he finished. Lance had the same will to win before 1999. His engine didn't have the horsepower until Ferrari started being its mechanic.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo 1 View Post
    I respectively disagree.

    No other athlete, in any sport, in any country, was ever driven like Lance was. Drugs aside, he was truly driven to win at any cost, and pay any price. He was truly special and unique. Yes, he was a TDF specialist, but I think he would have subdued, nullified and buried Hinault in that race and forced Hinault into a supporting role in a way that LeMond just couldn't have. Hinault would have respected Lance and might have even been scared of him in a way that he never was with LeMond.

    I think that's why Armstrong and LeMond just never saw eye-to-eye....
    I'm in your camp 100%. For 7 great years he went up against the best dopers in the game and beat all of them to the point that he never got caught with a fine or suspension unlike all of the podium finishers. As Bob Roll said we all got to fine a way to reconsile this and move on,

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony N. View Post
    I'm in your camp 100%. For 7 great years he went up against the best dopers in the game and beat all of them to the point that he never got caught with a fine or suspension unlike all of the podium finishers. As Bob Roll said we all got to fine a way to reconsile this and move on,
    I agree that it is time to reconcile this thing with Armstrong and move on.

    But comparing Hinault to Armstrong is apples to oranges. Armstrong didn't ride the 1980 Liège–Bastogne–Liège, he didn't do this year's tdf, or last year's giro. In fact he didn't do much of anything for 7 years except prepare for and ride the tdf in ideal conditions. Aside from winning the tdf and one worlds road race, the most impressive thing he did was a 1st and 2nd in the leadville 100 (leadville is no small feat in my book). We'll never know how he stacks up against Hinault because he didn't participate in anything that remotely resembles Hinault's schedule. It's a whole lot easier to be mentally tough for one race per year than it is for a full season of one day races w/ cobbles, bad weather, and all 3 grand tours.

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