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  1. #1
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    Cookson Want Vino and Riis to Testify

    From the "I'm not saying you guys are doping, I'm just saying it'd be nice if you swung by and gave a sworn testimony about what exactly used to happen when you were riding, and why things are so completely different now, that we should be happy to believe it when riders that you no coach totally dominate the race..." files;

    UCI chief Brian Cookson wants Astana?s Alexandr Vinokourov to testify | Sport | The Guardian

    UCI chief Brian Cookson wants Astana’s Alexandr Vinokourov to testify
    • Plea to head of Tour de France-winning team
    • Bjarne Riis also urged to talk to doping commission

    William Fotheringham in Paris
    The Guardian, Monday 28 July 2014 07.00 EDT
    Alexandr Vinokorouv
    Astana's head, Alexandr Vinokorouv, right, tested positive for blood doping in 2007. Photograph: Jean-Paul Pelissier/Reuters
    The UCI president, Brian Cookson, has called upon Alexandr Vinokourov and Bjarne Riis, the heads of the two most prominent teams in this year’s Tour de France, to testify before the independent commission on cycling’s doping history as a way of helping the sport move on from its past.

    Vinokourov, who is in charge of the Tour de France winner’s Astana squad, tested positive for blood doping in 2007. Riis, who is in charge of Tinkoff-Saxo, winners of three mountain stages and the King of the Mountains prize, confessed to having used erythropoietin to win the 1996 Tour; he was initially expunged from the record but subsequently reinstated.

    “I would like both of them to come to the commission,” Cookson told the Guardian at the Tour de France finish in Paris. “The commission doesn’t have powers of subpoena, but there is a court of public opinion here which is really important; those two people and others as well need to bear that in mind if they want to continue to operate in our world, opinion in the world of cycling would be much more favourable towards them if they came forward.”

  2. #2
    Senior Member Giacomo 1's Avatar
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    I wouldn't go.

    These guys already paid their price for doping and the public certainly doesn't seem to be clamoring for something like this since the end of the Tour. Everybody seemed very pleased with this years edition, and besides a few forum types here and there who just love to talk doping, there has been little complaint from the general fan about possible doping.

    There is nothing to be gained by these two guys going, but they can surely lose something. A question not answered to somebodies liking, an answer seen as obscure or only partially answered, or a question that they would rather not answer at all, would be seen as guilty pleas.

    Better to let this sleeping dog lie IMHO...
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  3. #3
    Senior Member DLBroox's Avatar
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    ^I agree.

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    Heretic Caretaker's Avatar
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    I agree with Cookson. They should testify. As long as they don't the teams/riders they are associated with will be tainted by the secrets.

    The truth will set you free.
    History is the future

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    Senior Member Giacomo 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
    I agree with Cookson. They should testify. As long as they don't the teams/riders they are associated with will be tainted by the secrets.

    The truth will set you free.
    Testify to what exactly?

    There is no reasonable cause here, nobody is crying foul, nobody is being accused of cheating, and nobody has filed a complaint, it's just some guy named Cookson that needs to stay employed and the way to do that is to keep doping in the spotlight - forever!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo 1 View Post
    I wouldn't go.

    These guys already paid their price for doping and the public certainly doesn't seem to be clamoring for something like this since the end of the Tour. Everybody seemed very pleased with this years edition, and besides a few forum types here and there who just love to talk doping, there has been little complaint from the general fan about possible doping.

    There is nothing to be gained by these two guys going, but they can surely lose something. A question not answered to somebodies liking, an answer seen as obscure or only partially answered, or a question that they would rather not answer at all, would be seen as guilty pleas.

    Better to let this sleeping dog lie IMHO...
    Would that not be as good a reason as any to have them testify? To actually get 2 guys known to have been at the heart of the heaviest doping era stand up and say "I know it was bad, but here's how I know it's better these days"? Why wait for the public outcry? Why not get ahead of it and be seen to be proactive about these things for once?

    Like you say, the 2 of them have paid their penalties, so there shouldn't be anything to worry about for the, should there? Though I would like to hear what Riis has to say about Kreuziger's current situation.

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    Heretic Caretaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo 1 View Post
    Testify to what exactly?

    There is no reasonable cause here, nobody is crying foul, nobody is being accused of cheating, and nobody has filed a complaint, it's just some guy named Cookson that needs to stay employed and the way to do that is to keep doping in the spotlight - forever!
    Testify to the when, where, why and how of their doping.

    OK, so you clearly think the past should be forgotten and as long as it's ignored it won't reappear. I take a different view.
    History is the future

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    Senior Member Giacomo 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
    Testify to the when, where, why and how of their doping.
    I'm quite sure they did that once already, and once should be all that is required.

    Would you re-testify to a crime you committed, and paid the price for, 10 or 20 years ago? What would be the upside?

    This is grandstanding on Cooksons part IMHO...
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  9. #9
    Heretic Caretaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo 1 View Post
    I'm quite sure they did that once already, and once should be all that is required.

    Would you re-testify to a crime you committed, and paid the price for, 10 or 20 years ago? What would be the upside?

    This is grandstanding on Cooksons part IMHO...
    Never said I thought they would, just that they should.

    I'm quite sure Vino hasn't testified to doping and if Riis has then he should have no problem doing it again.

    Whether it's grandstanding or not I agree with what he's saying.
    History is the future

  10. #10
    Senior Member Giacomo 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
    Would that not be as good a reason as any to have them testify? To actually get 2 guys known to have been at the heart of the heaviest doping era stand up and say "I know it was bad, but here's how I know it's better these days"? Why wait for the public outcry? Why not get ahead of it and be seen to be proactive about these things for once?
    There won't be any public outcry over this Tour. From everything I've read, fans seem pleased. This Tour actually did much to repair cycling's tarnished image as doping was rarely ever mentioned by anybody. Another 2 or 3 Tours like this, and doping will be all but forgotten, so let it go, move on, nothing to see here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leinster View Post
    Like you say, the 2 of them have paid their penalties, so there shouldn't be anything to worry about for the, should there? Though I would like to hear what Riis has to say about Kreuziger's current situation.
    You prove the point, you want to get into things a that could be incriminating...
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  11. #11
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    Cook's son want vino and rice? Surely you should feed him before testimony.

    Sorry, that one was a great title.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
    Cook's son want vino and rice? Surely you should feed him before testimony.

    Sorry, that one was a great title.
    Yah. He thirsty and hungry.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Keith99's Avatar
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    Sound like he wants a show trial.

    I sure would not go. Cookson gains from this if someone gets crucified, no other way. Riis and Vino can't gain no matter what happens. If they seem clean it will get ignored. It will be news only if they get implicated in something.

    Why not instead invite them to consult with their enforcement group and explain some of the tricks they used to stay uncaught?
    Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly.

  14. #14
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    Wasn't it only days ago when Cookson tried to avoid making a fuss about Menchov's sanction? Either you're open about doping or you're not; you can't choose what suits you at the given moment.

    Also, it's a no-brainer to put Riis and Vino together in this. Vino tested positive but has he ever openly talked about his doping past? And while it was never in question that Riis was doping he's one of the few who never tested positive but felt the need to admit to their past mistakes. What more should he do? Bury his yellow jersey in front of the cheering crowd? There are at least tens of people involved in cycling who should feel just as obliged to come forward but have said much less than Bjarne Riis.

    Also I don't think there are unfavourable attitudes towards Riis/Vino. Riis is generally seen as a great DS and I'm sure most people wouldn't like him out of the picture - his tactical sense and team building abilities simply give us better racing. As for Vino, there was a bit of negativity but it had more to do with him smacking Nibali. Other than that, Vino's racing after his ban could be considered a successful redemption. It's pretty hard not to love Vino when you watched him ride.

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