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Old 11-19-08, 10:04 AM   #1
johnny99
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counterfeit Specialized bicycles being sold on EBay and Craigslist?

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCWha...p?article=6353

Notice Regarding Counterfeit Tarmac Framesets

Specialized has learned of counterfeit S Works Tarmac framesets being sold from several online marketplaces like eBay, Craigslist, and other regional online sources.

These counterfeit frames and forks are not safe, should not be ridden and are not under warranty.
  • 2008 S Works Tarmac SL, size 52 & 54cm in Red and Blue colors.
  • 2007 S Works Tarmac SL, size 52 & 54cm in Red and Blue colors.

Genuine Specialized framesets are carefully designed, engineered and tested to meet stringent internal and international standards. Most importantly, Specialized products may be purchased only through Authorized Specialized Retailers and NOT via the internet.

We have observed fake framesets with the following incorrect characteristics:
  • No serial numbers on frame and/or fork
  • Fork serial number under crown (Near Tire)
  • Fork serial number starting with K85Lxxxx
  • Headset carbon cone with FSA logo
This list is NOT conclusive….there are other indicators of counterfeit composite frames and forks.

These framesets may or may not include a counterfeit S Works Pave Seatpost. The counterfeit seatpost is not safe, should not be ridden and is not under warranty.

If you have any question regarding the authenticity of a Specialized product, please contact Specialized Customer Service at (877) 808-8154 or email Customer Service (store_customerservice@specialized.com)
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Old 11-19-08, 10:19 AM   #2
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How the hell do you fake a Tarmac unless they're coming out of the same molds?
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Old 11-19-08, 10:23 AM   #3
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How the hell do you fake a Tarmac unless they're coming out of the same molds?
Yeah. It sounds like Specialized doesn't like someone selling Tarmac's except through dealers and came up with that story.
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Old 11-19-08, 10:25 AM   #4
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How the hell do you fake a Tarmac unless they're coming out of the same molds?
you don't.

These are likely production defects that should have been destroyed at the factory, but it's very common that they get sold out the back door after hours.
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Old 11-19-08, 10:30 AM   #5
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Or someone could have stolen molds, stolen defective molds, stole mold plans.

but selling factory defect frames is easier
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Old 11-19-08, 10:46 AM   #6
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How susceptible is carbon fiber to mold anyway?
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Old 11-19-08, 10:56 AM   #7
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Quality rejects from the factories tend to show up on ebay. Sometimes people have a hard time actually throwing things away in Taiwan. I learned that while living there.

The absence of a serial number would serve as an indication that the unit was a reject at the factory that was taken out of the back door, or that it was returned for warranty and not destroyed by the LBS when it was processed.

Either option does not bode well for long term performance of the parts.
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Old 11-19-08, 11:28 AM   #8
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Quality rejects from the factories tend to show up on ebay. Sometimes people have a hard time actually throwing things away in Taiwan. I learned that while living there.

The absence of a serial number would serve as an indication that the unit was a reject at the factory that was taken out of the back door, or that it was returned for warranty and not destroyed by the LBS when it was processed.

Either option does not bode well for long term performance of the parts.
One would expect that it won't bode well for the long term employment of the supplier either.
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Old 11-19-08, 11:33 AM   #9
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One would expect that it won't bode well for the long term employment of the supplier either.
Specialized is making money hand over fist. As long as that continues they'll do what they can to curb these types of sales but they'll keep using offshore frame manufacturers until they see it impacting their bike shop customers. One problem that we will see is that replacement frame decals will no longer be available to customers. I tried to order a top tube decal to replace a scratched one on my old Tarmac and was told that they had discontinued the policy of sending them to customers to prevent them from being used on these suspect frames.

Mike

Last edited by mcoomer; 11-19-08 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 11-19-08, 11:52 AM   #10
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One would expect that it won't bode well for the long term employment of the supplier either.
at those wages, not sure they care.
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Old 11-19-08, 01:45 PM   #11
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How do you put a serial number on a carbon frame unless it is molded in when the frame is made? Maybe the little stickers have been peeled off?
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Old 11-19-08, 01:51 PM   #12
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How do you put a serial number on a carbon frame unless it is molded in when the frame is made? Maybe the little stickers have been peeled off?
Not sure how Specialized does it, but with most carbon fiber components/frames, etc it is done through either a sticker or a plate that is riveted to the unit.

Last edited by Psimet2001; 11-19-08 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 11-19-08, 02:26 PM   #13
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How do you put a serial number on a carbon frame unless it is molded in when the frame is made? Maybe the little stickers have been peeled off?
You just put a tough sticker on the frame and tell the buyer to register the bike when new. No sticker, no registration, no warranty.
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Old 12-01-08, 11:53 AM   #14
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More Specialized Fakes Turning Up

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/...tail/2082.html

11/30/2008 5:00 PM MST

MORGAN HILL, CA (BRAIN)—The current batch of counterfeit Specialized Tarmac framesets circulating the Internet isn’t the first time Specialized has dealt with sales of fake products, but it is the brashest case the supplier has seen, according to Mark Schroeder, director of engineering for Specialized.

“Specialized is one of the more popular brands to copy in China,” Schroeder said. “We have long been the target of counterfeits in China, but this was on low-end bikes that stayed in China. This is the first time we have had a high-end product so blatantly ripped off.”

Specialized issued a press release recently detailing the fake S Works Tarmac framesets that its investigators started discovering on eBay and Craigslist earlier this year.

They are blue and red 2007 and 2008 frames and forks in sizes 52 and 54 centimeters with no serial numbers on the frame and/or fork or a fork serial number starting with K85L, or a headset carbon cone with FSA logo.

The fake frames are near duplicates of the Outside 3D frame shape, but the composite construction is different, meaning an outside factory is responsible for their production, Schroeder said.

“These frames are not being sold/diverted out the back door of our factory, but are instead being made somewhere else. Where we do not know, nor have our investigators been able to find this counterfeit factory,” he said.

They do know that the factory is in Taiwan or China as many of the customers who have purchased the fakes said the frames were shipped from China. Specialized also has reports of people buying counterfeit framesets while in China.

There is no way for Specialized to estimate the number of fake frame sales, and it’s nearly impossible to stay ahead of the issue.

“The problem with tracking down the factories and sellers in China is that the Chinese government is unwilling to cooperate at the level we need to solve the problem. We proactively try to shut down sales on eBay and other sites through our team that monitors fake Internet sales. We monitor these sites every day but the problem is we can’t stop every auction.

Schroeder said counterfeit S Works Pave seatposts have also been discovered and that counterfeit clothing is also a huge problem for the company.

Anyone with any questions regarding the authenticity of a Specialized product, should contact Specialized customer service at (877) 808-8154 or store_customerservice@specialized.com.
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Old 12-01-08, 12:09 PM   #15
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Ha, welcome to dealing with the Chinese. I got called a racist for commenting on the Chinese counterfeiting problems, but it's just fact.

For example, I got an email from a bank in Vietnam. They had put out a bid for some of my equipment and had received two responses, from two dealers, selling two different products, both claiming it as my product.

I asked the bank to forward the information to me. They sent me information on two units, both made in China, both bearing my company name, neither of which is actually my product!!!

I put them in touch with their authorized local dealer and they purchased my product through them.

China, what a joke.

We copy everyone's products with no regard to IP law, then when we can't sell enough, we subsidize the sale of these products. Well, the Dollar is up, demand for product is down, and the Chinese will have a revolt once all these people who tasted a little bit of freedom pie no longer have jobs. Chinese unemployment is through the roof.
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Old 12-01-08, 01:26 PM   #16
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It is very well possible that they are genuine products just being sold outside specialized distribution chain.. I have worked with several name brands that have there products made in China, specifically the golf industry.. Say Callaway places an order for 10,000 driver heads from a manufacturer. the manufacturer ends up making 11,000 heads, Callaway gets there 10,000 and the other 1000 go out the back door into the gray market 2nd tier sales cycle, which include ebay and many other online sources..

The product for all intensive purposes is identical to the genuine product but just being sold out the back door.. It could also be products that do not meet minimum requirements to be sold, like a defect.
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Old 12-01-08, 01:33 PM   #17
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Its possible that when the factory shuts down at night, they make the "fakes" using specialized own molds
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Old 12-01-08, 01:46 PM   #18
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The Nov. 30 article says the composite layup is different, so it very unlikely that they were made at the same factory as the genuine bikes.
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Old 12-01-08, 01:59 PM   #19
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The Nov. 30 article says the composite layup is different, so it very unlikely that they were made at the same factory as the genuine bikes.
You totally can't change how you put the carbon in the mold.
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Old 12-01-08, 02:11 PM   #20
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I moved this over to recalls.
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Old 12-01-08, 02:17 PM   #21
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Chinese Specialized fake frames, now with acceptable levels of melamine.

you know, to boost the carbon content


ummm, melamine
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Old 12-01-08, 04:23 PM   #22
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Chinese Specialized fake frames, now with acceptable levels of melamine.

you know, to boost the carbon content


ummm, melamine
I turned it down because they didn't offer bacon and ranch dressing.
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