rms13

CC msrp is $1250, Tamland with 105 is $1600. So 28% higher msrp which gets you full 11 speed 105 with brifters and Spyre disc brakes and a Reynolds 631 frame for $350 more than mixed Tiaga/Deore, barcons, canti brakes and 4130 fame. I think that's actually a lot of value for $350 more.

You can also get something like a Fuji Tread with Tiagra, brifters and discs for $999 or DB Haanjo with 105 and TRP Spyre brakes for $1199 at PB. Alum, not steel but still much more bike for the money.

And I did own a CC in the past so maybe I'm jaded but I was never impressed by anything with that bike and I feel like it's a marketing based bike and they are selling a story more than anything.

flargle

I believe the Tamland currently retails for at least $200 more than $1600. Correct me if I'm wrong.

IcySmooth52

I'm glad someone else said it instead of me. I've worked in marketing before, and I see it so much in the Surly brand.

cs1

They must be doing a good job. Seriously, isn't that what every successful company does?

IcySmooth52

Believe it or not, they're not doing phenomenally. They're not growing on volume, and QBP still has to get rid of frames at the end of each year through sales on wholesale prices for the realtors. (Doesn't mean they'll go on sale anytime soon)

FrozenK

Do you have access to QBP's financial information or are you speculating about Surly's growth? Discounting frames at the end of season isn't uncommon or exclusive of Surly.

I wouldn't be surprised if Surly's sales are down, though, they have lost some of their niche markets (like fatbikes) partly due to QBP introducing other brands like 45North. And other niches (singlespeed, fixies) are definitely not as hot as they were five or eight years ago.

flargle

LOL

Why do I see so many overpriced Surlys?!?!?!? Oh but seriously folks the company isn't doing well at all. And while you're at it, GET OFF MY LAWN!

grolby

Eh, it's pretty easy to find cross bikes, or gravel bikes, or touring bikes that are better equipped and lighter than the Cross-Check at the same price or cheaper. The claim on value should be obvious to anyone who does any price shopping. Doesn't make it a "bad" bike, but it's pretty tough to make a convincing case that the Cross-Check is a great deal.

It's also silly to say "it's just marketing." Um, duh? That's what every bike company is doing: marketing. They're going to say good things about their product, and promote it appropriately. Nothing wrong with that. If it's working, it means it appeals to a set of customers, and Surly is doing a good job of reaching them. Y'all are using "marketing" when what you seem to mean is something like "lying," and while I don't think the Cross-Check is all that great, Surly isn't lying to promote it. They're doing a great job of reaching people who like a steel bike that isn't made to be light or racey and can do 8,000 different things, even if it doesn't really do any of those things brilliantly. So sue 'em.

LesterOfPuppets

You think it's bad in Portland, ME. Try rollin' through Portland, OR. Whole damn town is Surly!

IcySmooth52

I can see their inventory. You notice trends.

FrozenK

So you have access to a QBP account and you are speculating. Got it.

RR3

Why Do I See So Many Surlys?

For the same reason you see so many Chevy Malibus and not so many Mercedes S65 rolling around.

Nightdiver

You're both right. 2014 Tamland with 10s 105 was $1600. 2015 Tamland with 11s 105 is $1850. Straggler, which I think is a better comparison than the CC is $1775, give or take. I think that Surlys, as with all QBP bikes, are a bit overpriced, but certainly wouldn't go so far as calling them a rip-off. It's not exactly a Ponzi scheme. Consumers are free to choose any number of other bikes, yet I still see plenty of new Surlys out there.

DirtRoadRunner

Surly framesets, on the other hand, are pretty cheap - I've seen Cross Check and LHT frames for as low as $425. I almost bought one in early 2014, but got turned off by the funky geometry for the 54 cm bike and bought a Space Horse frame for $575. Along with Soma frames, Surly frames are among the cheapest Taiwanese steel frame that one can easily buy.

I do agree through that the complete bikes usually come with a pretty crappy build for the price. The only Surly that interests me at the moment is the Ogre, but as someone who may do 1-2 dirt tours a year, it would not be worth the investment.

Wilfred Laurier

$400 is not particularly cheap for a steel Taiwanese frame. My 853 mtb frame was originally purchased for $99.

They may not sell out of frames by the end of the year, but I would be very surprised if I heard they are not meeting their margins on the brand overall. They probably break even on the landed cost of a batch of frames if they sell 30% of them at their normal wholesale cost, and everything sold beyond that is gravy.

DirtRoadRunner

Where did you find that at? I'd pay $99 for a brand-new 853 frame today if such thing existed (and it was manufactured with good QC). Most comparable Taiwanese steel frames from major manufactures go from $400-$700 it seems, with Surly at the low end. I don't think I've seen a frame made of name-brand steel for less than $700, or I would of bought one.

Wilfred Laurier

It was a special from Nashbar. It is quite a nice frame. I just looked and Nashbar currently has multiple cromoly frames for less than $150, but they all seem to have hi-ten stays instead of being full cromoly.

fietsbob

Great , build your own Tig welded Steel bike frames .. since you think it's so easy.

DirtRoadRunner

I had a Nashbar steel cyclocross frame, and the headtube became ovalized after ~1,200 miles of riding. This effectively ruined the frame since it had an integrated headset. It actually weighed probably a full pound more than my Space Horse frame as well. IMO, the Nashbar steel frames are not of good quality - my Space Horse is considerably nicer. I do recall hearing that Nashbar used to put out some pretty nice frames, but mine was just had poor QC.

I ended up setting it out on the curb. It sat for several days before someone picked it up (likely for scrap). I figured it would be next to impossible to sell. However, the whole bike cost about what the included 105 groupset retails for, so in the end it wasn't a bad value.

Wilfred Laurier

Comparing the pictures of their $115 current steel offering and my 853 frame, they don't seem to have a lot in common. The 853 frame is legitimately nice looking, while the frames they are selling now are pretty damn cheap looking.

justin1138

dude, seriously! if i had a dollar for every surly i saw on the road...

09box

I think Surlys are so popular because they have a wide array of options for any platform. I've never had one so I can't give my two cents on that part. YMMV

cs1

Surly seems to design bikes to use not look at.

corwin1968

I would have the grand sum of two dollars! I wish I could see more Surlys running around but I live in the burbs and I've only see two commuters, a Truckacinno 26" LHT and a black Big Dummy. Based on the location of the sightings, I wouldn't be surprised if both live in the same garage.

DirtRoadRunner

I see very few Surlys running around here - most people have "name brand" bikes (Giant, Trek, Specialized, Cannondale, etc). QBP bikes in general are not that popular in eastern MO, likely because there aren't many QBP dealers around here. The few Surly bikes I do see are LHT's and the occasional CC at group gravel rides. Salsa bikes are slightly more common.