fietsbob

The bike Business : Salsa a QBP brand can also be ordered , thru a Cannondale dealer with a QBP wholesale account

but you have to be a Cannondale dealer to , sell their bike brand, so @ C'dale dealer it is possible to test ride both ,

though both will not nessisarily be in stock when you walk in.

cs1

Why can't you get the Tamland?

b0rderline

This is very simple: In Europe there seems to be no Tamland in official distribution. Instead there is Roker Carbon.

MRT2

Not very high quality? The frame is Reynolds 631.

b0rderline

By this I meant how good it is welded together. Here You can find the opinions that I am referring to: Jamis Renegade Exploit - frame questions - The Paceline Forum

MRT2

Frankly, the opinion of anonymous internet strangers on some forum commenting on a picture of a frame wouldn't be enough to dissuade me. I might be more concerned if someone who bought the bike experienced a catastrophic failure, but even then it would be one data point, nothing more. If you like the looks of the bike, contact the manufacturer or speak to the dealer about any concerns. I haven't heard any issues with the quality of Jamis branded frames.

The thing is, I have seldom heard of a catastrophic failure due to manufacturing defects on any modern frame, let alone a frame for a bike that retails for close to $2,000.

allroader55

For the OP, if you like the ride on the Comax, then the Cutthroat is your choice for Salsa. The Cutthroat has a more upright riding position like the Comax, and it is meant for endurance type riding under load. The Cutthroat will take the much bigger tires and it also has a more stable tracking and steering geometry for rougher roads than the Comax.

The Warbird is for someone that wants to ride in a more aero position for faster times, etc. It is meant to be a gravel racing bike.

The Anyroad Comax is a great bike. Most people who own it really like it, and you don't see them listed on ebay (as a sign of owners not dumping them). However, it will not take 42-45c tires. The chainstay clearance is about 45 mm depending on where I put the calipers. 40c is your practical max, and 38c (which I run) is the sweet spot for the Anyroad.

b0rderline

I did not like the position on Comax but it could be due to the fact that I was trying Medium sized frame. I did not have a chance to try Warbird but I know that agressive position on the bike is not what I am looking for. But I have managed to try GT Grade Carbon and this bike seems to be spot on in terms of the position. But it can only take 35c tire. Maybe 38c so I am very interested in what 38c tire do You using and can recommend me. The bike with wider tyre clearance that should be good choice for me seems to be Jamis Renagade Expert. The last other option is Raleigh Roker. Both can take up to 42c tire but the second one (Roker) looks like to have more agressive geometry (like Warbird). I say this based on short Head tube lenght but maybe it is more the case of Cutthroad which also has a short head tube yet offers very comfortable riding position.

cs1

I didn't realize you were in Europe @b0rderline

allroader55

Head tube length is a generically used but not accurate way to interpret geometry. It sticks around because "in general" among similar bikes, the longer head tube will mean a higher position of the stem mount in reference to the ideal saddle height for a given rider's inseam. But if one tries to judge position by head tube among gravel bikes, drop bar MTBs, road bikes, hybrids, touring bikes, etc., it just doesn't work out. So in the all-purpose gravel like catagory, it is tricky.

The cutthroat uses a MTB fork, probably 470 mm but I don't know, which is longer than a road fork. So it can have a higher stem position but a shorter head tube than a similar small tire bike.

I use the Challenge Gravel Grinder Race. It's a nice tire. There actually aren't that many tires >40c (that are not touring tires), but the ones available appear to be really nice high end tires. But I am going to build a custom frame by spring for a big tire, gravel grinder, monster cross type bike. I have most of the geometry worked out, and I will probably get started on the frame order after Christmas. After going through all of this that you doing, I just decided that the frame I want doesn't exist. That being said, the Cutthroat and Vaya are still under consideration. Problem is I can't test ride them.

The Renegade is between the Warbird and the GT Grade in terms of drop below the saddle. My LBS is getting one in December for me to try. I also want to see if it can work instead of getting a custom frame.

b0rderline

Yes, I am from Europe and here You don't have a lot of bikes in normal distribution. Bikes, that are very easy to get in the USA. So sometimes You have to decide what bike to buy without proper test ride

Thanks for the very comprehensive answer. Great insight about the fork lenght (I have missed that fact). So it seams that Roker can be too aggressive for me. But I am eager to hear Your opinions after You test ride it. Please share Your thoughts as soon as possible

Cutthroat was my initial choice but during the research I came to the conclusion that I don't need MTB bike with dropbars but rather road bike with an off-road capabilities. So I need shorter chainstays but longer head tube. And slack head tube angle and low BB drop to get most stable and comfortable ride on rough terrain. And to be honest, if GT Grade had bigger tire clearance, my search for an ideal bike would be soon over. Right now I am wondering if 35c, 38c tire will be enough to give me a comfortaable ride. On the back thanks to fantastic, flexible carbon seatstays GT Grade for sure can manage rough terrain but what about the front fork? Maybe with some sort of steam suspension (like ShockStop), everything will be good enough to ride wherever I want. Or maybe I just overestimating the added comfort of 40c/42c tire above 35c/38c and should go with the bike that I really like despite its tire clearance limitations?

justin1138

The Tamland is under a different name in Europe. Look up the Maverick

b0rderline

You sir have absolutely right! I don't now how I missed that fact... But when You look on the groupset of Tamland and Maverick You will see big difference. Tamland has Shimano 105 with 10-32T rear cassette and Maverick uses SRAM Rival 22 with 11-28T cassette. Not that tempting anymore... To be honest I don't know why Raleigh differentiate so much its US and Europe offerings.

allroader55

I don't know. 35c is pretty limiting. I don't like the idea of running tires right up to the chainstays, because you have no room for mud puddles, etc.

What about those On One bikes in the UK?

I am working on a custom frame like you describe because that is actually hard to find. Just looking at my notes from my own search, some bikes that come close to meeting your tire wants are the Giant Revolt (very dropped head tube though, long reach too), Kona Sutra, Salsa Vaya, the Niner RLT9 (44c tires, very close geometry to what you are describing), maybe the Kona Rove.

One thing I don't like in the industry, and what is also pushing me to a custom frame, is the low BBs on these bikes. I want crank clearance to be able to peddle through and around junk. I really don't agree at all about putting 70 mm BB drops on bikes like these, that are especially rarely seeing 25+ MPH in only bursts or downhills. A bike for 40-50c tires would likely be seeing a lot more 6-10 MPH over crud. So I want a 60 mm BB drop.

b0rderline

Yeah, on my current bike I have 42c and to be honest, I really don't want to go below that. But right now I have a stiff, aluminium frame bike and maybe flexible carbon will make all the difference.

From the bikes You have mentioned only Niner RLT9 excites me, but only in steel frame version and this is very expensive and the bike itself will be quite heavy which is not the thing that I am really looking for. Giant Revolt is no longer available in Poland, where I live so this is another bike that I may only buy without trying it first. And it has aluminum frame, so I think that I would need to put the max size tire (50c) to really feel comfortable on it and this will for sure impact the road speed heavily.

If You are looking for wider tire clearance and 60 mm BB Drop than You will have quite a challenge because from my extensive research it seems (and You see that too), gravels bikes rarely have less than 68 mm BB Drop. And for me it is good thing, but each of us has different needs. I think that You should search in CX bikes, but these, on other hand, rarely have big enough tire clearance.