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Recreational Cyclocross and Gravelbiking This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

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Old 12-25-05, 10:00 PM   #1
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frame upgrade...MTB to CC

Originally posted in Mechanics Forum but no response, so I'll try it here too

I hate to say it, but my realy old Miele MTB with pretty much original components (Exage) is finally starting to show her age. And it's heavy!
I use it mostly for commuting now a days...with slicks on it. I think my dirt and mud riding days are pretty much behind me now. The bike tips the scales at just under 40 pounds.

I am wondering about a backwards upgrade. Change out the frame for something more CC in geometry and move my whole group over to it? I'd relace new 700 rims onto the Shimano hubs and ride with a flat bar instead of drops, that way the shifters and brake levers will transplant easily.
I hope without too much trouble, I can get my weight down by 10-15 pounds?
The Exage stuff isn't high bling ( love that word) but it has worked beatifully for me for all these years.

Only downside is it's a 7 speed. If a shift lever or RD ever broke, I'd change up to an modern Deore system but until then, I can live with it as it is. Also, it's a top pull FD now so I'd have to replace that right off.

I hope to get a second hand Marinoni touring frame with fork in my size for a couple hundred in Jan so other than that, I can't see spending more than an other 100 or so.

This sounds way too easy....what have I forgotten?

I originally bought a hybrid (in haste) to fullfull this need and I just HATE it! It leans way to much on the side of comfort...I just don't seem to be able to change it to an agressive fit. Anyone looking to buy a Diamondback Miramar in as new condition?
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Old 12-25-05, 10:12 PM   #2
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Check the droputs distance, not sure the spacing as mtb is 135 usually, The CX may be narrower -like road?
The bar clamp deal should work. You may need a mtn stem to clamp the bars not road -2 sizes.
If you swap the crankset, the front derailer will do, but the derailer clamp may be a different diameter. Specially if you are going from old steel to Alu modern.

All that comes to mind.
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Old 12-26-05, 11:25 PM   #3
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thanks Jeff

I figured I would need to replace the FD anyways because the MTB spec Shimano on it now is top pull and I'd be going to a bottom pull with the frame change.
The MTB crank is something like a 44-34-22 and even now with a 7 speed cass. of 13/32 I have more than enough top speed for most of my riding. Upping the rear to a 12/28 would give me the rannge that I could live with until I can get the cassette and shifters changed out to an 8/9 speed sometime in the future.
I forgot about the bar and stem size difference. I'll have to dicide at somepoint what I will go with....it's a 1 1/8 cup and cone right now however that shouldn't have any bearing on what I end up with. It always makes more sense to keep a frame and fork (plus bearings) together, don't you think?
Any thouhgts on re building the MTB hubs onto a 700's?
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Old 12-27-05, 10:04 AM   #4
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I think you'll end up spending more than 100 dollars on top of the price for the frame. Just rebuilding those wheels could cost more than that.

I like to use old parts on new (or used) frames, too - but in the end, it always ends up costing more than I thought. Some things will be incompatible with the new frame, like seatpost diameter, front derailler clamp or braze-on, cable length and stops, bottom bracket threading and width, and rear hub width. Other things you'll realize just need replacing, and you might as well do it now, like the brake pads, chain, derailleur pulleys, cables, and handlebar tape.

Even though I shop the sale catalogues, it all adds up to a couple hundred bucks in the end, and I wonder if I should have just saved up a little extra for a new bike. When you pay for a bike part by part, you realize just what a good deal a new bike can be.
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Old 12-27-05, 02:09 PM   #5
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LOL...I'm afraid that will happen.
I was looking at a JTS in the LBS. Over a $1000 CDN. Everything on my MTB works fine except the frame...I'd just like to go lighter if I could. Also, I can do all the work myself and there is a local guy who specializes in wrecked bikes.
I'm still crunching numbers in my head.....
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Old 12-27-05, 04:28 PM   #6
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The frame sounds pretty bad\heavy.

Personally, I'd find a mid 90's chromoly Kona\Brodie and run 1.5 tires 26 inch rim.
Consider an 11-30 cluster.
Of a note, my short cage 28T max derailer does the 30T cluster fine.

Back to frames...most all 90's 'good' mtb should have inclined toptubes.
Isn't that close enough to the CC geometry?

My reduced\overbuilt chromoly mtb weighs say 21 less\suspension.
I'm still using a few old components, R-derailer, headset, cranks...but the rest is gone.
I've no 'goodies' and every pipe and bolt has been chopped to reduce weight.

Why do you want skinnies? I worked it out on Sheldon Brown Gear calculator, 26 vs 700 same rpm was less than 2 mph faster. If you want speed, run 11T cogs.
I'm into a 11-38 combo that is my max, around 24 mph flatland bursts.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
For 26 X 2.125 MTB tire with 170 mm cranks 80 rmp 11T/38T gear is 21.3 mph flatland.

I'd get a newer mtb frame, swap the entire group and over the next year start updating the components.
Frames THE thing.

I didn't mind riding lousy components on a good frame....was o.k.
Good components on a crappy frame -well that's just stupid.

Last edited by jeff williams; 12-27-05 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 12-28-05, 09:34 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff williams
The frame sounds pretty bad\heavy. .
It's not that it (frame)was a bad one....the weight I gave was the wet weight....racks, water bottles, computer, lights....all the things people don't tell you about when they brag about weenyism!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff williams
Back to frames...most all 90's 'good' mtb should have inclined toptubes.
Isn't that close enough to the CC geometry?
Yes it is....The geometry of my Miele MTB is just perfect for me. I like a bit more of an aggressive setup. Most of the new MTB frames I've come across have all been suspension based models...not what I'm looking for. The idea of a road based frame appealed to me because I ride with a seat height of maybe 2 inches above bar height on my roadie. I tried a hybrid....hate the sit up and beg position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff williams
Why do you want skinnies? I worked it out on Sheldon Brown Gear calculator, 26 vs 700 same rpm was less than 2 mph faster. If you want speed, run 11T cogs.
I'm into a 11-38 combo that is my max, around 24 mph flatland bursts.
Most of my riding is on paved roads with maybe a bit of gravel road time between paved sections. And the rolling resistance is a bit lower. I figured if I ended up with a road frame, I was going to NEED to run 700's in order to have brakes line up???

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff williams
I'd get a newer mtb frame, swap the entire group and over the next year start updating the components. Frames THE thing.

Good components on a crappy frame -well that's just stupid.
A good frame lasts a long time...as long as a bad one! The Miele was a great frame in it's day....it's just too bashed up now to try to keep it on the road. Most of the components on it have been replaced at least once so far so just about everything on it now has a lot of life left in it. Maybe I should be looking at a modern, no suspension MTB frame ...if there is such a thing.
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Old 12-28-05, 09:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff williams
The frame sounds pretty bad\heavy. .
It's not that it (frame)was a bad one....the weight I gave was the wet weight....racks, water bottles, computer, lights....all the things people don't tell you about when they brag about weenyism!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff williams
Back to frames...most all 90's 'good' mtb should have inclined toptubes.
Isn't that close enough to the CC geometry?
Yes it is....The geometry of my Miele MTB is just perfect for me. I like a bit more of an aggressive setup. Most of the new MTB frames I've come across have all been suspension based models...not what I'm looking for. The idea of a road based frame appealed to me because I ride with a seat height of maybe 2 inches above bar height on my roadie. I tried a hybrid....hate the sit up and beg position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff williams
Why do you want skinnies? I worked it out on Sheldon Brown Gear calculator, 26 vs 700 same rpm was less than 2 mph faster. If you want speed, run 11T cogs.
I'm into a 11-38 combo that is my max, around 24 mph flatland bursts.
Most of my riding is on paved roads with maybe a bit of gravel road time between paved sections. I figured if I ended up with a road frame, I was going to NEED to run 700's in order to have brakes line up??? Plus, the 700's come with higher pressure options....so less rolling resistance is possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff williams
I'd get a newer mtb frame, swap the entire group and over the next year start updating the components. Frames THE thing.

Good components on a crappy frame -well that's just stupid.
A good frame lasts a long time...as long as a bad one! The Miele was a great frame in it's day....it's just too bashed up now to try to keep it on the road. Most of the components on it have been replaced at least once so far and everything on it now has a lot of life left in it. Maybe I should be looking at a modern, no suspension MTB frame ...if there is such a thing.
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Old 12-28-05, 05:17 PM   #9
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I can't believe my good (bad) luck
I went out to get a frame and came home with a new cross bike. $499 canadian dollars. Granted, it's a 2004 model but the components are Tiagra, it's got good brakes and flat bars....pretty much what I'd have trasferred over to a new frame from the MTB.
It's a Fuji Sillouette (sp)
Time to get dirty!
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Old 12-28-05, 05:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrians
I can't believe my good (bad) luck
I went out to get a frame and came home with a new cross bike. $499 canadian dollars. Granted, it's a 2004 model but the components are Tiagra, it's got good brakes and flat bars....pretty much what I'd have trasferred over to a new frame from the MTB.
It's a Fuji Sillouette (sp)
Time to get dirty!

Pictures! With dirt!
http://www.awcycles.co.uk/smsimg/221/7489fujisil3.jpg Something like this? Nice going.
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Old 12-28-05, 05:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrians
Maybe I should be looking at a modern, no suspension MTB frame ...if there is such a thing.
Yep, even 'drool' chromoly ones. Kill your wallet though.
It's harder to find frames not suited for freeride\oldschool geometry.

Surley has some reasonably priced stuff.

I think you got what you needed.
http://www.twofortythree.com/html/fr..._products.html I need some Canadian chromoly.
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Old 12-29-05, 07:41 AM   #12
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I set up the FUJI Silhoutte last night in the trainer. Changed out the rear tire for an old beatup job that has seen a lot of summer miles.
Riding position is spot on for me (19") frame....I'm 5'8" but I might change bars over to a more MTB style with horns for the extra position.
It weighs 22 pounds.
What a deal!
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Old 12-29-05, 10:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrians
I went out to get a frame and came home with a new cross bike.

Ha ha - this is exacly why I have to leave my credit card and atm card at home when I go to a bike shop.

Seriously, I think you made a smart move. You would've spent about 300 bucks just trying to get that new frame to work, and it never would have been as nice as your new bike.

Have fun riding!
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Old 12-29-05, 11:39 AM   #14
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It's a curse, I tell you!
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