martian_

Hey all,

I was riding a Kona Jake the Snake for a few months until it was stolen not long ago... The Kona was an old bike I'd found on Craigslist and hadn't been properly maintained by its previous owner, so in some ways I'm happy to be on the market for a new bike. But enough backstory...

I've narrowed my choices down to the Surly Cross-check and the Lemond Poprad. Reading through this forum I can't help but see people raving for the Surly. It seems to be incredibly popular and flexible. There doesn't seem to be nearly as much posted about the Lemond, though, so I thought I'd ask...

I tend to ride around the city quite a bit, commute to work (<1mi, so not really an issue), and get out on longer road/trail rides 2-3 times a week. I'm also looking at taking some short overnight trips. I doubt I'll be racing.

My girlfriend says the Surly is a Volvo and the Poprad is a Lexus. Not sure what I think of that.

What I like about the Lemond:
- Disc brakes (good for San Francisco hills)
- STI shifters
- Steel frame
- Bike feels fast/light

What I like about the Surly:
- Built to last (steel frame, again)
- Good touring cred
- Lots of good reviews :-)

Also, the components at the LBS are better for the Poprad than the Surly, and I've heard that disc brakes are the future.

It's a hard decision to make on a tight budget, and I'd appreciate any advice!

Thanks.

djs

Again it depends on what you want to do. The Surly is known to be a tank. That can be good or not so good. You are in SF? Maybe a lighter bike would suit you for the hills...any less weight is good. For more distance...maybe the Surly. I wouldn't want to use cantis on SF hills. I use discs for safety where I am. Both good bikes you are looking at. Poprad owners seem happy and the BB is lower .. 72? more like a road bike. You may also want to consider a Salsa La Cruz... it is steel, disc equipped.. lighter and well speced.

climbhoser

I bought the CrossCheck because it had

*eyelets and braze ons
*horizontal dropouts
*DT shifter bosses
and
*canti bosses

Cantis were only important to me because I already had a wheelset, non-disc, that I wanted to use. This sticking point might keep me away from the Salsa La Cruz, too.

DT shifter bosses (I bought a frameset to keep cost down) so's I could go geared when I wanted with parts I have.

Horizontal drops for SS riding in winter.

*eyelets and braze ons folks could do without, but I ride with my daughter in a seat rack, so it was mandatory to have eyelets for that.

You should check out the Salsa La Cruz. It's a bit more on the old budget, but you'll probably like it, and I think provides the best of what's available on both the Poprad and the Crosscheck.

Do you need the accessories of the Xcheck like I did? The Poprad is a nicer riding bike, IMHO.

ninethousand

I have an '06 Poprad, so I thought I'd weigh in on this. It's true that you don't see too many people talking about this bike. I'm pretty sure that the main difference between my bike and the newer model is that I have canti brakes, not discs. I prefer cantis and you prefer discs, so that works out well. I live in Edmonton, Alberta, and we have two hills here, so I don't mind a little less stopping power.

I use it for pretty similar purposes as the OP, but I have a longer commute (12 km/7.5 mi). It is a pretty flexible bike. Most of the time I have 28mm road slicks on it, but when I put the knobbies on there, it holds the trail really well. There is plenty of space for fenders, and I do have some that I put on sometimes. I have also put racks and panniers on it, though I did have to monkey around a little to get the racks on without proper braze-ons. I have done one overnight trip carrying camping gear. It worked pretty well for that, and I was comfortable for the whole trip. Well, comfortable except for the heavy rain, but I can hardly blame the bike for that.

I have never been on a Surly, and since reading so many raves, I'd like to try one. I'm still more than happy with the Poprad. It fits me well, and feels like an extension of my body, which is about all you can ask from a bike, no? I guess bottom line is that the Poprad is a pretty sexy machine and it can take a fair bit of abuse. Just make sure the bike fits you properly, and you'll be happy.

akatsuki

I'd probably go with the Poprad just for the better steel. If you are going to tour, I'd probably compare chain-stay lengths to make sure panniers work out okay.

martian_

Thank you all for your thoughts so far.

It's good to know the Poprad can handle some light touring -- the clerk at the store I visited thought so as well, and pulled a few racks off the shelf that she thought would work.

bsyptak

Poprad probably will have better resale value. People don't seem to want to pay much for Surly's on CL. Not sure why. My guess is that Poprads will hold their value in the coming years if Lemond as a brand does not continue after the Trek dynasty.

I'd compare them to cars this way:

Surly=1971 Land Cruiser or 1971 Volvo
Poprad=2008 Land Cruiser or 2008 Volvo

I like the Surly (though frameset to frameset, probably a couple of pounds. That steel fork, ugh.), but it is dated in terms of technology and weight. There is probably not a decent quality heavier frameset sold today than a Surly.

If you're looking for a road bike, I almost think the Surly is better because it doesn't have disc brakes. Road bikes don't need disc brakes. If it really will be your road and trail bike, then the Poprad gets my nod. Then again, the Poprad with disc brakes might weigh the same as a Surly since the frameset is lighter. Hmm.

If I was buying the Surly, I'd build it up myself with modern brifters and 105+ with a nice light, inexpensive wheelset like the Forte Titans when they go on sale for just over $100. It'll end up costing the same as the Poprad, but at least it will be comparable. I did that for my wife's commuter and it came in under 22 lbs. Not spectacular, but better than stock.

You didn't mention Soma Double Cross. They're headquartered in your neighborhood too. Frame weight will be similar to the Poprad. I have heard though that the paint chips off them every time you look at one.

M_S

^^

Really, keeping mind that it's not a spendy frame to beginw ith, I see surly frames going for quite a bit used all the time.

Instead of car analogies, I'll offer this:

Commuting: Surly probably takes the win here. Less flashy if you need to lock it up, more mounts for racks and fenders.
Racing: Neither is a purebred racer, but unless where you;re racing bans discs, I think the Poprad is the better choice
Heavier duty off-road: The discs are a plus for the poprad, but the Surly has massive tire clearance, so I'd say it gets the win here.
Touring: Surly, definately. It's got the mounts.
Fast group rides/supported long distance riding. Definately Poprad, though either can work.

If you're locking the bike up outside, it's not worth using either for your short commute. Get a 100 dollar beater off of craigslist for that distance.

Junkdad

You can get a Salsa with the OX platinum tubing and 105 components like a Poprad but more brazeons like a Surly.

sfcrossrider

I've got a crosscheck, and a Steelman, eurocross. I'm just as happy on my cc (when not racing) as I am on my Steelman.

martian_

Thanks again to everyone. I appreciate all the thoughts and advice.

abbynemmy

Here is my Poprad set up for commuting and light touring. I absolutely love it.

martian_

abbynemmy, Looks like a great setup! What are you using for a rack?

rbiked

i purchased an 08 poprad disc, the bike is eye candy as well as an excellent performer! I swap between the cross tires and skinny little road tires depending on what i want to ride that week, it's one fast bike. had no problem keeping up with regular roadies during a ride in which i ended up doing close to 60 miles, which impressed me, i didn't think i was going to be able to ride like i did. if i keep training hard this summer, i'll be passing all those roadies up in time! i also have done cyclocross style riding, the bike carries well and fits well on my shoulder, it handled the dirt better than expected as well. Once i got some miles on it and the bike worn in and adjusted properly, it has been a dream. i must admit i was shopping for a bike half if it's price, but was just to overtaken by it.. had to get it!

also i must admit i think it looks better with black bar-tape as opposed to white. Lemond advertises it with black tape but bike shops also have them with white.

if your going to compare the poprad to a car, i would say it would be a WRC rally car, perhaps that red lancer evo? :-)

martian_

Well, I just ordered the Poprap Disc, and it should be ready to ride sometime next week.

I had decided to take both bikes for one more test ride before making any decisions. The Surly rode and performed great, as expected, but when I rode the Poprad I felt like I never wanted to stop riding -- such a wonderful feel. I ended up on a 10 mile trek without realizing it. Like what rbiked writes: that feeling convinced me to go with the Poprad.

KrisPistofferson

Congratulations. Seriously, you couldn't have gone wrong with either bike, most probably. I would've chosen the Lemond as well, though.

rbiked

congrats on the bike, you'll love it! keep us updated once you recieve your bike and start riding it!

abbynemmy

I've had a few requests for pics of how I mounted my rack so here they are.
It a Delta Mega Universal Rack
https://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...cat%3A%20Racks





I took one of the two brackets that came with the rack. I flattened it out with a hammer and bent it in a vise to the shape you see here. There is a threaded hole on the front side of the seatstay crossbar. That is where it is bolted to.

martian_

Awesome. Thanks for posting these pictures.

zoeglassjd

martian... pics of the new pop?

martian_

This bike is awesome and it rides better than it looks (which is pretty good).

Thanks again to everyone for your tips and advice regarding this purchase.

Here are some pictures. I've been out riding almost everyday since owning it. It's a little dusty in here, but I guess that means it's being properly used. :-)

If there are specific parts of the bike anyone would like to see close-ups of, I'd be happy to assist.

Autospirit

Pretty good? That bike looks amazing!
I am/was also on the fence with the Surly/Lemond. I think there's a canti Poprad at a local shop calling my name.

meanwhile

I did messenger work in SF, so lots of fast descents and emergency stops... Cantis are more than adequate - they generate as much braking as a bike can take without flipping on a steep descent. Discs are really useful in the wet. I'd prefer discs myself, but I'd make a bigger thing of them in Seattle or the UK than SF.

meanwhile

I did messenger work in SF, so I've done lots of fast descents and emergency stops on those hills. Speaking from experience: Cantis are more than adequate - they generate as much braking as a bike can take without flipping on a steep descent. Discs are really useful in the wet. I'd prefer discs myself, but I'd make a bigger thing of them in Seattle or the UK than SF. If my priority was braking on SF hills, then I'd get a long top tube MTB with medium slicks with either type of brake over any cyclo frame - the geometry and wider rubber allows more aggressive braking before flipping. But I really wouldn't worry; either a Crosscheck or Poprad should be fine by any practical standard.

meanwhile

So... it's got anti-gravity capability?

That's a seriously pretty bike!