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Recreational Cyclocross and Gravelbiking This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

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Old 08-17-08, 07:09 PM   #1
Stpizzay
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New Bike..... Issues

Ok so i have just finished building my dream cross bike, and i have an issue that isnt necessarily *important*, but its the kind of issue that just ticks you off. I built up a 56 cm Redline Conquest frame, and i used 175mm gossamer cranks. When my foot is in just the right spot when im turning, like 8:30 to 9:30 position, my toe will rub the tire. Wtf.
anyone have this issue?
should i try and get a fork with more rake?

really i just want to know if anyone else has this issue and is it common.
thanks,
-E
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Old 08-17-08, 07:30 PM   #2
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Both of the cross frame I have had have toe overlap. This is a real problem when doing track stands but I have not had it affect me anywhere else.

Keep your fork.
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Old 08-17-08, 07:50 PM   #3
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That's one reason why the 650B wheel size might become popular again.
(I'm building up a 52cm frame set now)
700C/29er wheels+small frame= toe overlap.
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Old 08-17-08, 07:52 PM   #4
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i couldnt go with a fork with more offset?

i have FSA gossamer 175 mil cranks, if i went to 170's would that fix it?
i wont ride this bike with toe overlap. period.
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Old 08-17-08, 08:02 PM   #5
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Learn how to ride?
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Old 08-17-08, 08:55 PM   #6
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Why does this have anything to do with my riding abilities?
I'm simply irritated by my toe rubbing my tire whenever i take a turn. It's not unreasonable to expect your foot not to rub your front tire whenever you turn.
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Old 08-17-08, 10:18 PM   #7
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Most road bike have this and it's really not an issue. I'll check my poprad to see if there is any overlap.

Edit: Just that you are in Sac. Are you racing this season?
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Old 08-18-08, 07:59 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Stpizzay View Post
It's not unreasonable to expect your foot not to rub your front tire whenever you turn.
maybe not unreasonable but toe overlap is very common. many many riders have adapted their style to deal with it, you can too. if you choose not to, well that's your choice.

you can get shorter cranks, that could help, or could be an expensive waste of time. it'll also mean less leverage. i wouldn't recommend getting a fork with different rake, as this will affect steering and probably not for the better.

or you could learn how to time your tight turns so that your inside pedal is at 12 o'clock and outside is at 6. that's what most of us did, and now it's not an issue.
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Old 08-18-08, 09:42 AM   #9
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I also have some overlap on my bike.

I've never had any issues at riding, let alone race speeds, but only when doing very low-speed turns.

Other things to consider: clipless pedals, if you don't have them, plus, what dirty said
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Old 08-18-08, 10:43 AM   #10
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Yes, toe overlap can be a pain. I have been thrown over the handlebars of my Cross Check a few times because of it. I swapped out the cranks on mine to 165's from the stock 170's and it actually made it worse because of the lower Q factor. I am trying to find some cash for a new Rawland 650B frame now.
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Old 08-18-08, 10:52 AM   #11
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" i wont ride this bike with toe overlap. period. "


Are you kidding? If you were an experienced enough rider to warrant being that much of a snob, you'd know that toe overlap happens and deal with it. The only time toe overlap is going to affect your riding is a extremely slow speed cornering. Which is rare on a bike. You need to just get over to and learn to deal, rather than swapping cranks/forks etc. That just silly.

Get out and ride already.

Jeesh!
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Old 08-18-08, 10:57 AM   #12
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" i wont ride this bike with toe overlap. period. "


Are you kidding? If you were an experienced enough rider to warrant being that much of a snob, you'd know that toe overlap happens and deal with it. The only time toe overlap is going to affect your riding is a extremely slow speed cornering. Which is rare on a bike. You need to just get over to and learn to deal, rather than swapping cranks/forks etc. That just silly.

Get out and ride already.

Jeesh!
+1

Unless the majority of your cornering is done at 3 MPH a little toe overlap is never going to factor into actual riding. If you "won't ride with toe overlap period" then you need to get a touring bike with 26" wheels.
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Old 08-18-08, 11:38 AM   #13
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Running a fork with more rake will make your bike quicker handling. Also you will not notice a huge difference in toe overlap when increasing the rake a few mm.

I have no idea about your riding abilities and experience etc but if you are turning the handlebars a lot during a turn to make the overlap a problem and the turn is not a slow speed turn then you might ask more experienced riders how to turn. I mostly use handlebar pressure to turn. If I am going left I push the right hand side of the bar (or I could pull the left) and opposite for left turns. You can also push your hips into the inside of the while simultaneously pushing and pulling the bars to get deep in a turn. Also, you want to make turns as long as possible by coming into them wide hitting the apex of the turn and then coming out wide. Taking this longer path helps keep your speed up in a turn and causes you to have to steer less.

You could also go to shorter cranks, but I imagine you need to make this whole thing quantitative by measuring how much toe over lap you have to see if 5mm will completely eliminate your toe overlap before dropping a nice chunk of change on a new crank set.

as an afterthought you might want to check your cleat positioning as you may have your cleats well behind the balls of your feet. I actually ride my cleats ahead of the balls of my feet, but I have relatively big hooves at size 12-13.

To everyone who posted something to the effect of "learn how to ride" that is neither helpful or very nice so why would you waste your time even posting it?
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Old 08-18-08, 03:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stpizzay View Post
i couldnt go with a fork with more offset?

i have FSA gossamer 175 mil cranks, if i went to 170's would that fix it?
i wont ride this bike with toe overlap. period.
Most modern cyclocross bikes have a short wheelbase (can't imagine why that is) and you will be very hard pressed to find a bike that doesn't have toe overlap these days.

In practice you will find it very difficult to strike a toe when riding since when making turns you SHOULD have your outside foot on the low end and in normal riding it is impossible to turn the front wheel far enough to strike your toes. The only place where you would normally hit a toe on a bike with overlap is when you're riding very slowly and generally standing up to balance that slowly and having to turn the wheel a very long way in order to balance the bike without significant forward motion.
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Old 08-18-08, 08:04 PM   #15
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What type of pedals are you using? I assume clipless. Are your cleat as far forward as possible on your shoes?
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Old 08-19-08, 02:27 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Stpizzay View Post
Why does this have anything to do with my riding abilities?
I'll let the man answer this one.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ta...toeclipoverlap

On many bicycles, especially smaller sizes, it is possible for the front fender or tire to bump into the rider's toe or to the toe clip. Some people worry a lot about this, but it is rarely a significant problem in practice. The only time it can happen is when the handlebars are turned quite far to the side, which only happens at very low speeds.

Many, many people ride bikes with fairly severe overlap with no practical problems, sometimes having to make a slight adjustment to their pedaling habits at very slow speeds.

On smaller size bikes with full size wheels, it is usually impossible to eliminate overlap without causing adverse fit/handling issues.
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Old 08-29-08, 11:22 AM   #17
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I was going to post a new thread on toe overlap, but I decided to bump this one.

I'm looking for advice to minimize my own toe overlap. I've put ~1000 miles on a Gunnar Crosshairs that I built up about four months ago, including this year's Seattle to Portland ride, plenty of commuting, and lots of off-road (even off-trail) riding. This cross season I'll be racing on it, after racing on a mtb last year.

Up to now, the significant toe overlap on my setup (2.5cm) has not been an issue. I have no problem changing my pedal stroke to avoid it, and an occaisional toe bump is not catastrophic. While training for cross it's become a big deal, specifically on a course that includes a very steep section with several switchbacks. I have to keep pedalling through the uphill turns, and even when hitting the apex in the ideal spot the front wheel has to be turned into the toe overlap zone for at least a full pedal stroke. So far this has meant one of two things happen: either I do a wierd wobbly turn to avoid the overlap just at the point when the wheel and toe would hit, or they hit and I lose all momentum and fall sideways immediatly.

I do have 2cm I could make up by moving my cleats forward, but at this point I'm comfortable with where they are. If I make this adjustment, what other bike fit adjustments might need to go along?

I'll still have .5cm overlap if I do the full cleat move, so I'll see if that much is still as big a problem as I have now. I know that going from 175 to 170mm cranks would make up the difference, but I'm not sure I want to change those out.

Any advice is welcome!
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