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Recreational Cyclocross and Gravelbiking This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

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Old 05-31-04, 09:23 AM   #1
pyze-guy
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Brake lever

I've seen cyclocross bikes with 'road' brake levers and 'mtb' style levers as the same time. The mtb levers, can they be used with v-brakes?
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Old 05-31-04, 12:04 PM   #2
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The "MTB levers" you've seen are called "Froglegs" and are for use with classic cantilever brakes. I would not use them with V-brakes.

Here they are on my bike...

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Old 05-31-04, 09:22 PM   #3
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The "MTB levers" you've seen are called "Froglegs" and are for use with classic cantilever brakes. I would not use them with V-brakes.

Here they are on my bike...


Thanks.
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Old 06-01-04, 05:23 AM   #4
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a few corrections... "frogglegs" are empella's model of high-profile cantilever brakes. empella also uses the name for their top-mount brake levers. generically, the levers are called "top-mount brake levers." from what i can tell, their principal function is to ad weight and complexity to a cyclo-cross bike. in all of my racing, i have only ever seen one person with them on his bike, and i've never seen anyone actually use them in a race.
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Old 06-01-04, 05:46 AM   #5
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Sorry, have to disagree here. Empella calls the levels "Froglegs" too, just like their canti brakes. Because they were (among) the first to bring these levers, everybody here in Europe calls such levers "Froglegs".
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Old 06-01-04, 06:25 AM   #6
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the point is that "frogglegs" [with two "g's"] is the name of empella's product. consequently, they are only called frogglegs when they are empella-branded levers. if they are someone else's -- paul's, tektro's, specialized's -- they are not "frogglegs." generically [in other words, regardless of brand] they are called "top mount brake levers."

and they are useless.
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Old 06-01-04, 06:34 AM   #7
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the point is that "frogglegs" [with two "g's"] is the name of empella's product. consequently, they are only called frogglegs when they are empella-branded levers. if they are someone else's -- paul's, tektro's, specialized's -- they are not "frogglegs." generically [in other words, regardless of brand] they are called "top mount brake levers."

and they are useless.
Sort of like blowing your nose with Kleenex...I mean, CVS Brand Tissue Squares.
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Old 06-01-04, 06:47 AM   #8
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Perhaps you can explain to me why Empella call them Froglegs with one "g" on their website? www.occp.de

Anyway, here in Holland (and I guess it's the same in whole Europe) we never talk about "top mount brake levers". We call them Froglegs, no matter who made them.

I guess you never take an asprin without pointing out the fact that "Aspirine" is a brand name from Bayer Pharmaceutics.
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Old 06-01-04, 06:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velocipedio
from what i can tell, their principal function is to ad weight and complexity to a cyclo-cross bike.
...wow, a full 85 grams. The horror of adding weight. Complexity? What's complex about them?
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in all of my racing, i have only ever seen one person with them on his bike, and i've never seen anyone actually use them in a race.
...Ever been to Europe? Okay, the top riders like Wellens, Neijs and Groenendaal don't use them but that's a matter of speed and technique. How many of us amateurs and tourists can develop their speed and skills? At lower speeds froglegs are very comfortable.
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Old 06-01-04, 07:04 AM   #10
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timo... have you ever actually raced? i'm not trying to be a pain here, but if you've ever been knee-deep in freezing mud on the sixth lap of a december race, you'd understand that any moving part on a 'cross bike is added complexity. any moving part can get jammed. when i see top-mount levers, my first throught is "gee, look at that -- another place for mud to get in and clog your cables."

i'm probably not being fair to you, and i apologize. as far as i know, conditions in your area aren't as muddy as they are up here. my dislike for top-mount levers is probably due in part to the fact that i know that cables get iced up and jammed with slush and frozen mud.

the other thing is that, in my experience, the only time i'm ever in the tops in a race situation is in a long climb, and i've never needed to brake while climbing. the rest of the time, i'm in the drops or occasionally in the hoods. as far as i can see, top-mount brake levers on a race rig are about as useful as saddle-mounted gear shifting.
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Old 06-01-04, 07:13 AM   #11
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Well, the pros here put the Froglegs on when it's a muddy, technical course and take them off when it's dry and fast

...Quite sure Bart Wellens knows what he's doing...
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Old 06-01-04, 07:16 AM   #12
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the pros have three spare bikes, mechanics and support staff. i'm not talking about pros. i'm talking about amateur racers who maintain their own bikes.
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Old 06-01-04, 07:19 AM   #13
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And I'm saying that if European top pros use them as soon as it gets muddy and technical, there must be a good reason to use them.

Anyway, I've never had any problems with dirt and mud on my Froglegs. Have you had a good look at their construction? It''s almost impossible to get them to malfunction no matter how much mud is cloged onto it.
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Old 06-01-04, 07:22 AM   #14
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BTW, I must admit that European pros are hardly ever knee deep in freezing mud.

Besides all that, if "pyze-guy" isn't planning to be knee-deep in freezing mud on the sixth lap of a december race, I see no problems for him using these levers.
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Old 06-01-04, 11:29 AM   #15
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I find the levers useful for city situations like when you HAVE to ride on the sidewalk , or in other tight slow off road situations. True these aren't situations you see in a real cyclocross, but for non-racers (assuming most of us) and us who use these bikes as our only bikes, they do come in handy at times..

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Old 06-01-04, 12:26 PM   #16
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I've seen lots of people use them in Races I've been in. I plan on getting some for this season because I always find that 90% of the time I am on my bar tops so it's easier for me to break there. For the record I always refer to them as inline brakes because thats what they are. They intercept the break cable inline from the normal break lever. I also always refered to frog legs as the actual break cantilevers since well they look like frog legs. In any case for me they will work great.
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Old 06-01-04, 05:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo
BTW, I must admit that European pros are hardly ever knee deep in freezing mud.

Besides all that, if "pyze-guy" isn't planning to be knee-deep in freezing mud on the sixth lap of a december race, I see no problems for him using these levers.
No, for the front brake on my fixed gear. My lever doesn't fit my tt bar.
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Old 06-21-04, 12:45 PM   #18
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Paul Components make some that have adjustable pivots, so you can use them with cantis or Vs.
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Old 06-21-04, 12:53 PM   #19
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I have some specialized ones on my road'ish bike and some paul one's (so I can use v-brakes) on my 26" road'esque bike... I find that I barely use them... but still good to have them there occassionally... They do work well... good product.
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Old 07-02-04, 09:13 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by pyze-guy
I've seen cyclocross bikes with 'road' brake levers and 'mtb' style levers as the same time. The mtb levers, can they be used with v-brakes?
I use paul levers on both my steel bianchi race bike and on my surly cross-check backup commuter. they can be adjusted for v-brakes, though i use canti's. they are light, simple, work great, are perfect size ot use one or 2 fingers, and haven't given me any problems. and, I do race on them, and have seen them on numerous pro racers in video, and even paris-roubaix.

i started with a set-up as laid out in burney's book (2 seperate cables per brake), but the specific levers are a smoother to use.

i think they are great, and allows me to ride the tops a lot, which I like on bouncy terrain.

marc
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Old 07-18-04, 12:40 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by velocipedio
timo... have you ever actually raced? i'm not trying to be a pain here, but if you've ever been knee-deep in freezing mud on the sixth lap of a december race, you'd understand that any moving part on a 'cross bike is added complexity. any moving part can get jammed. when i see top-mount levers, my first throught is "gee, look at that -- another place for mud to get in and clog your cables."

i'm probably not being fair to you, and i apologize. as far as i know, conditions in your area aren't as muddy as they are up here. my dislike for top-mount levers is probably due in part to the fact that i know that cables get iced up and jammed with slush and frozen mud.

the other thing is that, in my experience, the only time i'm ever in the tops in a race situation is in a long climb, and i've never needed to brake while climbing. the rest of the time, i'm in the drops or occasionally in the hoods. as far as i can see, top-mount brake levers on a race rig are about as useful as saddle-mounted gear shifting.

Saddle mounted gear shifters??? LMFAO.
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Old 07-18-04, 03:41 PM   #22
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I have Paul's Love Levers on one bike, and Tektro's on the other. The Tektros are about $50 cheaper, and I like 'em as much, maybe more.
I've always had brakes on top, always will.
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