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  1. #1
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    cross check: standard stock build vs. stock 105 STI build

    Does anyone have any opinions?

    Standard stock build: $950
    http://www.surlybikes.com/bikes.html

    105 STI stock build: $1350
    http://www.surlybikes.com/virtual_CrossCheck.html

    What alternate build would be recommended? Use: 80% road, 20% offroad 4WD trails

    Al

  2. #2
    Senior Member MrEWorm's Avatar
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    I had mine done as 105 and 36 spoke wheels at Performance Bikes (Before Surly offered the option). Notice that with the 105 you get STI shifters? I have been happy with it.
    Could I have saved the $400? Probably.

  3. #3
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrEWorm
    I had mine done as 105 and 36 spoke wheels at Performance Bikes (Before Surly offered the option). Notice that with the 105 you get STI shifters? I have been happy with it.
    Could I have saved the $400? Probably.
    If I understand correctly you didn't get the 105 STI package, but instead selected a custom build yourself.

    "Could I have saved the $400? Probably" Do you mean that you could have gotten the basic stock build for $400 less and been just as happy? I like 105 components better, but don't know much about the other differences like handlebars, headset, etc.)

    I am also trying to work out the best gears: stick with 12-25 rear cogs, but maybe a 36/48 chainset instead of 39/53 - I think the lower gear ratios will be better for offroad hills. Any opinions?

    Al

  4. #4
    Senior Member Stubacca's Avatar
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    I've got the basic build on my cross-check. It seemed like a good starting point, and as my all-weather and commuting bike to be ridden in rain, snow and mud, the level of components is great. For how I wanted to use the bike I was happy for it to not have STI levers. The more I ride it, the happier I am with the decision to get the bar-ends. I'm even half tempted to change the bars for a set of bullhorns as I never use the drops riding around town. From what I remember, the 105 build will come out a bit lighter, but weight wasn't really an issue for me.

    The wheelset on the 105 build should be better. That being said, I'm about 230lbs, have put a good 1000 miles or so on my cross-check, and haven't had any wheel issues yet.

    The 36-48 with a 12-25 has served me well so far, giving me plenty of gearing for a good top speed around town as well as low gears for climbing with a small load or on unpaved trails or singletrack. When I wear out the cassette, I'll be tempted to replace it with a 12-27 or perhaps even a mountain derailleur/cassette combo. IMHO, a 39-53 on a cross-check would be very over-geared.

  5. #5
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    I want a flexible, but relatively high performance bike. I will definitely use it off road at least 2x per month. But also on road every day for commuting on decent pavement at the highest speeds I can push. I definitely want drop handlebars, I am so sick of the flat bars I have now. (I do also have a roadbike, but the frame is much to large leaving a -2" standover - fine for my neighborhood, but risky for commuting)

    I do wonder if the 105 build is overkill for me? I'm not a weight counter (I could lose much more weight of my belly than I could thur higher end components) I do like the better wheel quality. I think that will be good for the type of 4WD roads around here (ruts, bumps, scattered rocks, etc) I am 6'2" 200lbs.

    I do want a cycle I will be happy with long term with minimal additional tweaking (due to $$).

    I am very much leaning toward the 36/48 chainring and 12-25 or 27 cogs, even with the 105 build. I like high cadence.

    Al

  6. #6
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Details... Any more comment on the difference - any specifics on differences that stand out to you? Would I be better getting the stock build and putting $400 toward wheels and a few select components. Below are the differences - the first listed is 'stock', the second listed is the 'stock 105 STI' build.

    Headset: Ritchey Logic Comp vs. Cane Creek S-2
    Stem: Tahoma vs. ITM Race
    Handlebars: Salsa Moto Ace Bell-Lap vs. ITM Super 330
    Brake Levers: Shimano #BL-R400 aero vs. 105
    Brakes: Tektro Cantilevers #862A vs. Avid Shorty 4
    Shift Levers: Shimano Bar-end type #SL-BS77 vs. Shimano 105 STI (I do want bar end, but am OK with STI)
    Front Derailleur: Shimano Tiagra #FD-4400 Double vs. Shimano 105 Double
    Rear Derailleur: Shimano Tiagra #RD-440-GS Mid-cage vs. Shimano 105 Double SS Short Cage
    Crankarms: Cyclone 110mm BCD. vs. (what does 110mm mean? I thought cranks were 165-175mm usually. I want 175mm to start)
    Chainrings: Salsa 36 x 48t vs. Shimano 105 39x53 (I will get 38x48)
    Bottom Bracket: Shimano Deore LX #BB-UN53 68 x 113m vs. Shimano 105 68 x 109.5mm
    Seatpost: Kalloy Uno vs. American Classic
    9-speed Cassette: Shimano Tiagra #HG-50 12-25t vs. Shimano 105 12-25T
    Chain: Shimano HG-72 vs. HG-73
    (Hubs: Shimano Deore #HU-M510. 32-hole. 100mm O.L.D. front, 135mm O.L.D. rear. Black
    Spokes: Stainless Steel DT Swiss Straight-gauge 14 w/ brass nipples
    Rims: Alex #AL-DV15. 32-hole x 700c.) vs. Wheelhouse 105/Mavic CXP22
    Tires: Ritchey SpeedMax Cross 700 x 32c. vs. Michelin Jet 700 x 30c

    Thanks,
    Al

  7. #7
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    Looks like your big ring on the 105 build is going to be awfully large for cx racing, good for roadwork/commuting though.

  8. #8
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kccyclist
    Looks like your big ring on the 105 build is going to be awfully large for cx racing, good for roadwork/commuting though.
    Even if I get this build I will change chainrings. I agree the 53 is too big. I think I can put a 48/38 on. 48/36 would be even better.

    Al

  9. #9
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    I'm running a 46/38, seems to work ok until you hit the big downhills on the road, I get dropped some there, but can usually make it back up on the next incline as I'm always pedaling hard and the super big ring guys tend to slack a bit into the next uphill I think as its so hard to turn that time of gearing once there is any load.

  10. #10
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kccyclist
    I'm running a 46/38, seems to work ok until you hit the big downhills on the road, I get dropped some there, but can usually make it back up on the next incline as I'm always pedaling hard and the super big ring guys tend to slack a bit into the next uphill I think as its so hard to turn that time of gearing once there is any load.
    Is 48/36 not possible? While only slightly different, I think it would be better than 46/38.

    Al

  11. #11
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    Should work, I'm just running what my bike came with stock.

  12. #12
    Senior Member labman's Avatar
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    The 110 reference for the crankset is the bolt pattern. Most standard road cranks are 130. A 110 pattern would be for a compact crank (meaning smaller chain rings).

  13. #13
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    I've got the std stock build and have put 2,000 mi on it since late March. I'm 6'3" 215# and have the 58cm. Mostly used for my 11 mile commute, but also group rides and some offroad, including a couple of full on mtb trails just for kicks (I was definately the only guy out there with drops! ). Things I changed from std build was a Brooks B17 and a 3" or so raised stem for a more upright position. I like that alot as I ride the drops probably 50% of the time now. I also got a set of 700c25 tires for the road commute.

    I have had no problems with the bike other than std brake and wheel cone adjustments. I have lots of hills on my route and a slightly bigger chain ring ... say a 50 would be nice for those long downhills. I wished for 105 components because they should hold up better, but the Tiagra's have been fine so far. Very happy with the wheelsets as they are still true even after my 215# bashing on them on some very rocky trails. I like the bar end shifters, and prefered them over STI cause I was leary of damaging the $$ STI in an offroad crash ... I actually did bang up one of the brake levers in a trail crash, don't know how the STI's would have held up. Also wouldn't mind some V brakes, but the stock canti's improved 25% by putting some Kool Stop salmon's on.

  14. #14
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Thansk for the comment.

    I am very close to your size - 6'2", 200lbs and was also planning on getting the 58cm frame.

    It's a tough decision for me - the 105 build may be more robust, better brakes, a tiny bit lighter, but also more delicate due to STI shifters. I've never owned an STI shifter, my 1985 touring bike has stem shifters and my 1990 mtb has under the thumb shifters. How delicate are they compared to bar end? Does banging them up break them easily or is the concern getting clogged with mud and dirt?

    Do you have continued problems with the hubs? Was it a one time adjustment?

    I'm gonna make my order on Monday!

    Al

  15. #15
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    After all this fretting, I decided to get a 2005 Lemond Poprad instead. Meets my desires better out of the box (105 components, no need to change gearing) and less cost as well.

    Al

    Al

  16. #16
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    Haha, I know exactly how you feel! My choice came down to the Poprad and the Crosscheck. For whatever reason I liked the ride of the Surly a little better ... it may have just been that the lbs that had the Surly was much more helpful. Plus with the std build it was cheaper. I'm sure you will be happy with your choice.

  17. #17
    Al noisebeam's Avatar
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    Well, you are lucky you could try them out. I found no LBS within 50mi that had either (or any CX bike) in stock. I normally don't do this, but I ordered it un-tried from the LBS that was the most helpful. It will be a $100 return fee if I just do not like it (but LBS will fit it for me no cost if there are fit issues, or get a different frame size at not charge if the frame size is wrong, like most good LBS)

    I am fairly adaptable to bikes - I've ridden too stiff, wrong size, twitchy, unresponsive bikes and have adapted fine after a few hundred miles. Not to say I don't expect the best or that I'll be OK with a fit problem, only that the minor differences I'd notice in try-out would probably dissapear after I got used to the bike. How can you really tell how a bikes gonna work out in a 10min ride in parking lot vs. a 100mi road ride or an dirt road ride?

    That said, what did you like better about the Surly ride?

    Al

  18. #18
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    Al, I was lucky to get to try them out, the other one I really wanted to try out was a Jake the Snake though it was really more than my "target" 1k budget. I did ride a Jake though.

    Like you said it's really hard to get any real feel on a 10 min neighbor hood ride on shop pedals with a too small frame with the only fitment being seat height. So I'm sure it was a subjective mix of the price, the lbs vibe and how the bike felt on that day. Frankly I don't specifically remember now any specific items other than the Poprad was a little more $$ but had the 105's I wanted. Does the Poprad have the fender and rack mounts on it? I know I liked that on the Crosscheck since a primary use was comutting. I know I liked some of the classic styling on the Crosscheck like the lugged and brazed crown. There might have also been availability problems and I wanted to start riding it ASAP. I kinda thinking after I took into account the above I called it a toss up and decided to actually beat my budget target for once!

    Enjoy the new bike!

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