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Recreational Cyclocross and Gravelbiking This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

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Old 10-04-10, 02:35 PM   #1
jakubl
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Racing Two-A-Days

I'm just getting started in cross and am doing pretty well. I think I want to start doubling up on races to see if I can progress a little faster. Any advice on recovery methods between races?

Thanks
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Old 10-04-10, 03:20 PM   #2
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Make sure you get enough food and fluids post race. Also stay loose on the trainer.
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Old 10-04-10, 03:37 PM   #3
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I suck and am still thinking of this option just because if I have to drive for 2 hours, pay $40 to race and be gone from my kids all day (and I hear about it from Mrs Nomad) then another 45 min of racing for $5 sounds great. Even if I'm getting lapped and my tongue is hanging out.
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Old 10-04-10, 10:49 PM   #4
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I've been considering doing the same thing and racing a single speed rig. Can't beat $5 for another 40 minutes on the course. If the races are close together (less and an hour) i would depend on liquids (gatorade and water for me since it's cheap) and gels. Hydration is very important. If you can, get a good cool down from your first race by lightly spinning and keep your muscles warm. I bet after a few weekends of this your endurance will definitely increase by quite a bit. Make sure to rest the following day to let your muscles recover completely. If your not worried about placing in the second race i don't see a downside. again it's only $5!
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Old 10-05-10, 05:37 AM   #5
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We usually don't get deals on race two here, and if so it's only half off. So $10 usually.

I raced twice in a day for the first time last week. I did better in the second than the first.

I drank a bottle of water, ate some dried mango, and that was it. I had 1 hour in between.
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Old 10-05-10, 09:53 AM   #6
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I doubled up one time and disliked it. Toward the end of the first race I started conceding places to save my legs, and then in the second race I was racing against guys who had no business beating me. All in all, unsatisfying and not the reason I race cross.

Two races on successive days OTOH is perfect.

YMMV
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Old 10-05-10, 12:16 PM   #7
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...

Two races on successive days OTOH is perfect.

YMMV
+1 on that - I seem to ride better the second day.
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Old 10-05-10, 02:36 PM   #8
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I've been doubling up on back-to-back races, with about 8-10 minutes recovery time between the end of the first and the start of the second. That's enough time for a bit of gatorade and a caffeinated gel/gu.

My first race is the serious race. My second race is to see if I can avoid last place. So far, I've been successful.

good luck.

joel
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Old 10-05-10, 04:09 PM   #9
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We usually don't get deals on race two here, and if so it's only half off. So $10 usually.

I raced twice in a day for the first time last week. I did better in the second than the first.

I drank a bottle of water, ate some dried mango, and that was it. I had 1 hour in between.
Sounds like your races are already not so expensive. Thenomad and I have race at Southern California Prestige Series (though don't think we've met yet) and our races are $28 (actually ~$31.73 with fee) if you prergister and $35 (with no fee) day of race. Adding a second for only $5 sure does bring down the per race cost; to about $20. I just don't have the fitness for it - maybe some day when I'm not DFL.
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Old 10-05-10, 06:36 PM   #10
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Don't forget to add the one day licence at $10 onto that. Then, I went into the wrong side of the park initially and got hit with $10 parking pass. Ugh. Not so cheap.
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Old 10-06-10, 01:18 AM   #11
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I'm assuming everyone has the license fee. I'm on one days now, but Dec 1 you can get the annual good for 13 months. I'll buck up the $60 then.
Can't help you on the wrong entrance, my friend did that also.

This week is $10 for real apparently.
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Old 10-06-10, 11:55 AM   #12
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I just don't have the fitness for it - maybe some day when I'm not DFL.
This is exactly the reason why i'm doubling up on the majority of my races: to build experience and fitness. One hour and 20 mins at 80% is a much better workout than 40 mins at 80%.
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Old 10-13-10, 10:17 AM   #13
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Well... I doubled up for the first time on last Sunday. Cat 4 race at 10:00 and Cat 3/4 at 2:00. It went okay. It wasn't near as hard as I thought it would be. Recovery was a 5 minute cool down, chocolate milk, banana, and half of an almond butter and jelly sandwich. I also got a 10 minute massage about 50 minutes before race 2.
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Old 10-15-10, 08:53 AM   #14
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i don't know where you get the 80% from. its more like 100% for the first lap, 95% for the middle and then 100% from when you have to make your move at the end till the finish line. if your trying to improve in cycling you have to push your self farther than you think you can go. in Crits its try to break away a bunch of times. In cross you need to try pushing your self really hard in the beginning even if it means you die before the end. Simply put if you want to get faster you really have to make yourself uncomfortable and try going faster.
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Old 10-15-10, 11:30 AM   #15
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Any advice on recovery methods between races?
although i've yet to try going twice for cx - i've done it a number of times for road bikes.

my method varies with the amount of time between races, current fitness, and even the weather.

less than an hour between races? i'll actually start to fuel for the 2nd race, shortly before the first race starts. gels, bloks, and liquids. stay hydrated as much as possible, and immediately upon finishing the first race, get some nutrition in me. nothing much more substantial than a banana or two. usually i'll just stick with gels, and liquids. time off the bike is minimal. i'll spin easy, and 10 minutes before staging, i'll give a couple of efforts to get the blood moving and break a sweat again.

more than an hour between races? i'll rest as much as possible - push fluids and easily digestible nutrition. available time will dictate what i eat - but generally will not consume any solid food with less than an hour before go time. sit, relax and lots of stretching after a cool down. with 45 minutes to go, i'll get back on the bike and spin up again. again - i need to be ready to go deep right off the line, so having a bit of a sweat worked up is a good thing for me.

+1 to the comment about mentally always keeping some in reserve when i know i'm going again later. it's tough not to do that.
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Old 10-15-10, 11:33 AM   #16
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The way they keep setting up the times in my region the 40 min C 4 is right before the 45 min C 3/4.
I definitely want to get more technical time in the saddle but I'll have little recovery time. I may need a SS for a second run just to get some recovery time between start times.
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Old 10-15-10, 01:50 PM   #17
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+1 to the comment about mentally always keeping some in reserve when i know i'm going again later. it's tough not to do that.
Not that I race road, but it's always made more sense to me to double-up on crits, than on cross races. In crits you can do any number of things in a race without totally giving it all; go for primes, cover a few attacks, lead out a sprint, etc. And if you get dropped in the first race, just pack it in and do the second one. In cross, though, you know a priori it's mostly just about producing watts from start to finish.
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Old 10-15-10, 03:50 PM   #18
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The way they keep setting up the times in my region the 40 min C 4 is right before the 45 min C 3/4.
I definitely want to get more technical time in the saddle but I'll have little recovery time. I may need a SS for a second run just to get some recovery time between start times.
I don't know your age - but I'm 46 in CX years and have thought that if I doubled up I'd do the 45+ and then the 35+.
With the CX4 in between those; it's basically impossible to use the CX4 as one of a double unless you singlespeed it - or go back-to-back. I could basically do the courses I've done in my 36x23 as a SS. Apparently if you pull your RD cable you can run SS that way. I don't know exactly how to do that, though.
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Old 11-01-10, 11:21 AM   #19
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Well, looks like the Nov 6 event they changed the venue and the start times so I'm thinking I'll do two races. I'm 34 but 35 in cross years so I'm thinking of doing the Cat4 first and then an hour later doing the 35+ cat 4. The 35+ seems like a totally competitive class full of beasts around here.

Not that I'm expecting to win anything but I just want to maximize my course time after driving 2 hours and giving up family time all day.

So what should I do this week to prepare? Not sure what race I should go all-out on? Both? Plan on 1.5 races and collapse DNF in the second? Use the first to get the feel and really go allout for the second?

Or has too much brain power already been spent... its just 'cross and I suck so have fun!
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Old 11-01-10, 01:51 PM   #20
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I did 2 yesterday, a 3/4 and a 1/2/3 15 minutes later. Sucked, but I've missed a bunch of races this year and need the time at race speed, or at least at race intensity. I'm not as competitive as I should be this year anyway, so stretching myself makes sense. I went just below race pace in the first race after I missed a good move, and went as hard as I could manage in the second.

I was DFL in the 1/2/3 race, but didn't care. I got an hour and 45 minutes at race intensity even if the speed sucked. Got more comfortable on the bike, too, with tires and position that are a lot different than last year.
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Old 11-01-10, 08:05 PM   #21
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That's what I'm hoping for I suppose. A day with 90 minutes of race fun even if I did each at 80-90%, or I go all out and bonk.
I'm thinking a gel flask in a pocket with gatorade etc will be a good thing for during the race...
or some beer handups!
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Old 11-01-10, 11:33 PM   #22
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After reading some of this, I've given thought to doubling up. It just doesn't work with the local schedule. I'd like a couple hour break between the two, cuz just one really wipes me out for awhile.
The races are 45+, then CX4, then 35+. I could maybe do one of those and then singlespeed A; but that's with the elites and I'd totally get buried.
That, and I don't have a SS.
So, I just don't see it happening for me.

I'm still looking for my first beer handup - I've heard rumors, but never seen on other than at Langtown.
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Old 11-02-10, 12:27 AM   #23
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Heck, guess I'll have to bring some then!
PBR?
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Old 11-02-10, 07:31 AM   #24
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I always double up. Masters is my A race and then the Pro/1/2 is just for training. I can't take the second race seriously at all because I'm usually fried from the first one. But as the OP stated he wants to improve quickly and I can tell ya that doubling up will definitely do that for you, it's great training.

Usually I have an hour till the next race, I'll drink a recovery drink and have a gel or two and keep spinning on the road or on a trainer and do some stretching. For me anyway if I stop spinning then I am done.
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Old 11-02-10, 12:35 PM   #25
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Heck, guess I'll have to bring some then!
PBR?
You're racing Saturday? I'm racing Sunday.
Just stash some PBR under a tree with some ice, I'm sure noone will find it.

I won't double yet. I think our local 45's are faster than the 35's.

Word is Chris Horner from Radioshack is in both days this weekend and many more UCI riders as well. Stick around to watch those guys if you go.
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