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Recreational Cyclocross and Gravelbiking This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

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Old 03-16-11, 10:27 AM   #1
JohnSqual
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LBS Problem

Hey,

My first post on the cyclocross forums. I've been riding cyclocross the past few months to keep me cycling through the winter, and I really love it. Belgium has a good network of mountain bike routes, some of which are also suitable for 'cross riding.

Now for the rant:

I took my old, secondhand cyclocross bike into my LBS recently because the chain
broke and needed replacing along with the cassette. It's got an oldish campagnolo
veloce rear derailleur, 9 speed.

I took it for a brief test ride later, and it was only then that I noticed that I couldn't
shift to the highest gear. The reason: the guy installed a 10 speed cassette for a 9 speed derailleur. I should've checked in the shop I suppose, but I was in a bit of a rush.

Is it ok to continue using this, or should I ask for my money back and a proper replacement? I assume it would take a while to track down a 9 speed cassette, since they're a bit obsolete. I also assume a 9 speed cassette isn't going to work too well, but is it really going to cause problems?

Although they did a satisfactory job on other work I've taken there, I don't like this
LBS much at all. The guy's wife works in the shop most of the time and doesn't seem to like or care about bikes or cyclists. I'd have appreciated a proper explanation of what they'd done, at least. I'm generally getting a bit sick of poor customer service in bike shops; I live in Belgium, and with a couple of exceptions, LBS's have been rude, unhelpful and rather too willing to sell stuff without explaining it properly.


Many thanks for reading this, and for any comments you may have.

John
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Old 03-16-11, 11:02 AM   #2
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9 speed cassettes are not all that difficult to come by, at least not for Shimano and SRAM stuff. Not sure about Campy, but I doubt it's nothing that can't be easily ordered in.

I would take the bike back ASAP and make them correct their error free of charge to you.
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Old 03-16-11, 11:20 AM   #3
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Probably will work just fine. I think I'd make sure they knew about my dissatisfaction though.

And yeah, I'd never buy another thing from them. Might be a good time to learn how to work on your bike.
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Old 03-16-11, 11:37 AM   #4
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When you said "I also assume a 9 speed cassette isn't going to work too well, but is it really going to cause problems?" did you mean '10 speed cassette'?

Did you pay for a 9-speed cassette? If so, they should have sold you one. You are right to go back. If there is a delay in getting the cassette you want, if they are a really good bike shop, they'll loan you a cassette you can get by with until it comes in. In any case, don't be satisfied with this and give them a chance to fix their mistake.
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Old 03-16-11, 12:00 PM   #5
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Probably will work just fine.
Aren't 10 speed gears thinner than 9? So there will be lateral play in the chain, damaging the chain. A damaged chain may then damage other components - not good.
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Old 03-16-11, 12:33 PM   #6
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Hey, thanks for the replies.
-I have been gradually learning how to repair my own stuff, but I didn't have the correct tools and was a bit concerned I'd make a balls up of fitting the chain.
-According to the repair book I use, campagnolo 8 speed cassettes are spaced 5 mm apart, 9 speed 4.55, 10 speed 4.12, and 11 speed 3.8. So it's presumably a bad idea to mix chains and derailleurs.
-Yes, I meant 10 speed chain. I doubt very much this would count as a "really good bike shop". Their customer service has been rotten so far, so I think I'd rather get my money back and take the whole thing elsewhere, or
try to find the parts and fix it myself.

Last edited by JohnSqual; 03-16-11 at 12:54 PM. Reason: mistype
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Old 03-16-11, 12:38 PM   #7
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It's not the derailleur that's 9-speed, it's the shifter.

In any event, if the shop did the install, it's on them, and they should make it right.
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Old 03-16-11, 12:54 PM   #8
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Aren't 10 speed gears thinner than 9? So there will be lateral play in the chain, damaging the chain. A damaged chain may then damage other components - not good.
Yeah, it might work, but not optimal. I have no experience with this since I'd never do it myself. Maybe as an emergency, but not to fix a problem.
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Old 03-16-11, 01:15 PM   #9
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As someone who works at a bike shop, I know for a fact that 9-speed Campy cassettes are super-easy to come by but not regularly stocked. The shop should have explained to you that they would have to order one and it might take some extra time to get the bike back to you as a result. Somewhere along the line somebody messed up in this situation. Either it was the person who took in your bike and wrote up the work order, the mechanic, or the person who instructed the mechanic to install a 10-speed cassette (if they did this knowingly).

Did they set the limits on the derailleur to only give you use of the 1-9 cogs or does the derailleur just not shift into the smallest ring for spacing reasons?

Also is the chain a 9 or 10-speed chain? If it is 9-speed, in addition to poor shifting from the spacing difference between shifter and cassette, you will have wear issues and not get solid shifts or seating of the chain rollers in the cog teeth (they will be slightly to either side in some/most gears).

Take your bike back (with a work order receipt, hopefully) and explain the situation in a calm fashion. If they are even close to being a reasonable shop, they will immediately recognize the situation and correct it. If they tell you that it will work fine, explain that you were never told of this "workaround" and want the proper parts installed, as per the work order agreement.

EDIT: Also, if they give you the option of a Miche or Campagnolo replacement, go with the Campy. It is twice as expensive but the shifting performance advantage is well worth the cash.
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Old 03-16-11, 02:19 PM   #10
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Thanks Darkside, this is all very useful for when I go to the shop to discuss this with them.

The limit screw is screwed all the way in, and the other limit screw is screwed quite far out - this is not how they were when I took the bike in.
It makes me suspect they did this deliberately. There's no spacing problem as far as I can tell.

The chain is a shimano ultegra, a 10 speed I think - CN6701. Is there likelty to be a compatibility problem with an ultegra chain on a campy cassette?

Still got the receipt, I'll go in tomorrow or Friday. Curse it, I was hoping to take this bike to the Ardennes this weekend.
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Old 03-16-11, 09:27 PM   #11
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The 10-speed Shimano chain should be fine. We put those on Campy setups all the time and they work perfectly.

Now, limits screws can be deceiving so don't let the outward or inwardness fool you. The high screw should be set so that the derailleur action should be stopped not by cable tension but by the limit screw when in the smallest (furthest outward) cog. In your case, I'm guessing that they set it up so that the limit screw stops the derailleur at the second-to-smallest cog. When in this gear, you should be able to detect a small amount of slack in the derailleur cable. The best place to feel it is along the bottom of the downtube, assuming a traditional routing. The low screw should be set so that the chain is able to be shifted to the largest (furthest inward) cog, but if you push the derailleur body while pedaling (a stand helps) the chain will not be shifted over the cog and into the spokes (Watch your fingers).

Also, this thought just crossed my mind and I have to ask to make it go away: In addition to your Campy Veloce 9-speed derailleur your setup also includes a Campy 9-speed shifter, right?
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Old 03-17-11, 02:56 AM   #12
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Hey,

The bike is second hand. The shifter is a Mirage, but it doesn't have any indication whether it's a 9 speed or a 10 speed (if there ever was any graphic or logo, it seems to have worn away). However, when I tried tuning the shifting ( a while before I broke the chain), I did notice that the shifter seemed to have an extra click when I shifted into the highest gear - I presume this means that the previous owner used a 10 speed shifter and a 9 speed derailleur?

If I have a 10 speed shifter, does this mean I can adjust the limit stops so I can use all 10 sprockets on the new derailleur?
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Old 03-17-11, 05:23 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by JohnSqual View Post
Hey,

The bike is second hand. The shifter is a Mirage, but it doesn't have any indication whether it's a 9 speed or a 10 speed (if there ever was any graphic or logo, it seems to have worn away). However, when I tried tuning the shifting ( a while before I broke the chain), I did notice that the shifter seemed to have an extra click when I shifted into the highest gear - I presume this means that the previous owner used a 10 speed shifter and a 9 speed derailleur?

If I have a 10 speed shifter, does this mean I can adjust the limit stops so I can use all 10 sprockets on the new derailleur?
Deraileurs will work for any number of gears. It's the shifter that controls where the chain lands on the cassette. If you have ten clicks in the shifter, it'll be a ten speed shifter and the derailleur will work for it. Try adjusting the limit screw to see if the derailleur will move down any further.
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