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  1. #1
    NewbieIAm.WantToLearnAll iam93157's Avatar
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    Calling all riders! Give me a break!

    Greetings all,

    Please help end my current obsession phase with cantilever brakes. I'm looking to upgrade from stock and have narrowed down search to (in alphabetical order):

    1. Avid Shorty Ultimate

    2. TRP EuroX (Mag/Cross, another headache)

    Direct comparisons will be a huge help!

    Performance wise, can people help chime in with personal experience? Preferably with logical reasons (for I am an engineer) although sometimes a gut feeling is what you need to go on.

    Some specific qualities I'm interested in (and I understand the response will vary based on setup):
    - how much adjusting is necessary
    - how easy is it to adjust to that perfect balance of mechanical advantage/lever pull distance/clearance
    - toe in, needed/can be done?

    I'm curious and interested in the art of tweaking, but I can't always be off the trail with my tools out.

    I come from a cross country riding background with hydraulic brakes so my style isn't as aggressive and hard as downhill riders (locking up rear wheels and drifting corners) but I enjoy a smooth plush strong braking power. (Like carving out avacado meat... )

    Money isn't too much of an issue as I still operate with separate bank accounts , but I'm a firm believer of buying quality for the long run.

    Thanks fellow riders! Any and all remarks greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    Team Beer Cynikal's Avatar
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    I would get the Shorty Ultimates. They will be easier to set up and tweak than the TRP's.
    I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC

  3. #3
    TXHC amillhench's Avatar
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    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #4
    NewbieIAm.WantToLearnAll iam93157's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynikal View Post
    I would get the Shorty Ultimates. They will be easier to set up and tweak than the TRP's.
    "Would" and "will" based on indirect experience? Thanks



    Yes thanks, good link but I've read that before. I felt that thread got jacked by a few Avid users. No chirps from TRP owners. Now that could be because Avid is truly better and thus more influential in the market... but I still want to my own validation.

  5. #5
    Senior Member chrism32205's Avatar
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    I like my Tektro CR720's.. easy to set up and fairly cheap to buy.

  6. #6
    TXHC amillhench's Avatar
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    My TRPs should be here this week. I'll let you know my experience then.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  7. #7
    Team Beer Cynikal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iam93157 View Post
    "Would" and "will" based on indirect experience? Thanks
    I don't have direct experience with the shorties but I know several people who have them and love them. I have a TRP style brake and they are a pain to set up but once set up they work very well.

    The reason I would chose the shorties if I was shopping in that price range is the flexibility. If you are in a muddy area you can run them in wide profile mode for clearance, if you are in a dry area you can run then in low profile mode for more responsive braking.
    I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC

  8. #8
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    I am currently futzing with the TRP euroX and I'm not a big fan. Someone (on here I think) said it best that they are good for slowing down but not for stopping. I'm also having issues with clipping the rear brake with my heel/thigh.

    On my other bike I rock a far cheaper and better set up, Tektro CR720 in the front and an Avid shorty 4 in the rear with koolstop salmon's and Jagwire cable hangers all around. This brake set up has been giving me all of it.

  9. #9
    Team Beer Cynikal's Avatar
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    I kind of miss my Tekros 720 and IRD cafam rear. The only reason I went to the TRP's was for the barrel adjusters on the brake. Kind of silly in retrospect but they were only $40 for the set.
    I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC

  10. #10
    Senior Member meanwhile's Avatar
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    1. Have you read the new sticky canti faq? If so, how did you find it? Before deciding on a canti you should probably go to the Sheldon Brown article it links and read the discussion of the three different canti profiles.

    2. Tuning gets a LOT easier with a fork mounted hanger. Especially if you want a fair amount of clearance. Almost all canti problems come not from the brake (there is very little to get wrong - a canti brake is just a lever*) but from fork flex and cable vibration. A fork mounted hanger eliminates that vibration. Unless you need wheel mounted fenders or have a CF fork with an undrilled crown, fit a hanger. It will do more for your brakes than anything else - the cantis on my old Lava Dome always had acceptable performance, but after the hanger went on felt like hydraulics.

    3. Cable path, cable path, cable path - get it right!

    4. After the above, suitable brake boosters might well be a better bet for increasing performance - if needed - than a brake change. Cantis are (again) too simple to get wrong easily, so problems from flex in the mountings are perhaps more common.


    * Except the notorious Pederson Self Energizers aka "Tandem Lifters." But let's not go there...
    Last edited by meanwhile; 04-05-11 at 05:56 AM.

  11. #11
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    FWIW I run fenders and a fork crown mounted with no issues.

  12. #12
    NewbieIAm.WantToLearnAll iam93157's Avatar
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    From

    Quote Originally Posted by chrism32205 View Post
    I like my Tektro CR720's.. easy to set up and fairly cheap to buy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynikal View Post
    I kind of miss my Tekros 720 and IRD cafam rear. The only reason I went to the TRP's was for the barrel adjusters on the brake. Kind of silly in retrospect but they were only $40 for the set.
    Quote Originally Posted by scrub View Post
    ... On my other bike I rock a far cheaper and better set up, Tektro CR720 in the front and an Avid shorty 4 in the rear with koolstop salmon's and Jagwire cable hangers all around. This brake set up has been giving me all of it.
    it sounds like the Tektro CR720s are a solid bet, especially at its listing price. Then what sets the more expensive TRP/Avids apart other than weight? If the CR720s similarly priced, would people still buy them?

    Cynikal, I like how you brought up barrel adjusters on the Avids. TRP offers them as an extra "upgrade kit"... boo. However, doesn't tweaking the straddle cable barrel adjuster also affect your anchor angle? Would you also want an additional barrel adjuster for your main brake cable to correct the anchor angle? The math is getting interesting


    Quote Originally Posted by meanwhile View Post
    1.
    The articles describe cantilever adjustment, but doesn't quite help me in selecting a brake system. No doubt that the knowledge the articles impart will help down the line when I have the product in hand.

    As with any bike related question, I think we all know to first search through Mr Brown's website.

    Quote Originally Posted by meanwhile View Post
    2.
    Agreed, hangers are necessary and fortunately come with my bike

    Quote Originally Posted by meanwhile View Post
    3.
    The cable path is already set using Gore Low Friction System

    Quote Originally Posted by meanwhile View Post
    4.
    Hopefully I can get away without a brake booster. We'll see, thanks

  13. #13
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    The other thing to remember about CR720 is that you can buy the brake for around $30 and then $10 for straddle cables with barrel adjusters and then $20 for koolstop salmon pads and you have a perfect brake for less than the competition!

  14. #14
    NewbieIAm.WantToLearnAll iam93157's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrub View Post
    The other thing to remember about CR720 is that you can buy the brake for around $30 and then $10 for straddle cables with barrel adjusters and then $20 for koolstop salmon pads and you have a perfect brake for less than the competition!
    OMG. Brake pads. You just opened up a new world of hurt for me. More reading to do

  15. #15
    Team Beer Cynikal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iam93157 View Post


    Cynikal, I like how you brought up barrel adjusters on the Avids. TRP offers them as an extra "upgrade kit"... boo. However, doesn't tweaking the straddle cable barrel adjuster also affect your anchor angle? Would you also want an additional barrel adjuster for your main brake cable to correct the anchor angle? The math is getting interesting
    Any barrel adjuster would modify something in the system. One on the housing will change the yoke height and one on the straddle cable modifies the angle but only slightly. I actually have both on my bike. The adjuster for the straddle cable is used only for switching wheels, my tubulars rims (like most tubulars) are wider than my clinchers.

    i also set my brakes up differently for just riding or racing. My racing brakes are less effective and are used more for scrubbing speed. Although, I will change that for hilly courses that actually require braking.

    If you haven't noticed, I tweak things a lot.
    I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC

  16. #16
    NewbieIAm.WantToLearnAll iam93157's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iam93157 View Post
    ... Cynikal, I like how you brought up barrel adjusters on the Avids. TRP offers them as an extra "upgrade kit"... boo. ...
    I misquoted. TRPs also come with barrel adjusters.

  17. #17
    Team Beer Cynikal's Avatar
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    Or you can buy the jagwire ones and save some money.
    I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC

  18. #18
    Senior Member meanwhile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrub View Post
    FWIW I run fenders and a fork crown mounted with no issues.
    I'll add that to the faq - thank you!

    More details of the fender type, bike, etc would be good - even a photo if you have a camera handy.

  19. #19
    Senior Member meanwhile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iam93157 View Post
    Agreed, hangers are necessary and fortunately come with my bike
    Your bike came with a FORK MOUNTED hanger??? Not a stem mounted hanger? That's rare: what is it? The only bikes I've heard of coming with FMHs before are some years's Tricrosses - Spesh tried *everything* to get the front brake right on that bike.

    Anyway: don't ignore Shimano cantis like the r550. Re. the 720: some people (those of us with large feet) can have problems running them as a rear brake, I hear. Of course most braking power comes from the front, so that shouldn't be a huge problem.

  20. #20
    Senior Member meanwhile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iam93157 View Post
    OMG. Brake pads. You just opened up a new world of hurt for me. More reading to do
    Assuming that you will be riding in the wet it comes down to Kool Stop Salmon or Dual compound pads, or Swiss Stop Green.

  21. #21
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    The 2011 Trek XO 1 and XO 2s come with fork mounted hangers, I noticed.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanwhile View Post
    Assuming that you will be riding in the wet it comes down to Kool Stop Salmon or Dual compound pads, or Swiss Stop Green.

    I just switched the stock TRP EuroX pads on the front for a set of Shimano Dura Ace and the difference was very noticeable. The TRP pads are HARD.

  23. #23
    NewbieIAm.WantToLearnAll iam93157's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meanwhile View Post
    Your bike came with a FORK MOUNTED hanger??? Not a stem mounted hanger? That's rare: what is it? The only bikes I've heard of coming with FMHs before are some years's Tricrosses - Spesh tried *everything* to get the front brake right on that bike.

    Anyway: don't ignore Shimano cantis like the r550. Re. the 720: some people (those of us with large feet) can have problems running them as a rear brake, I hear. Of course most braking power comes from the front, so that shouldn't be a huge problem.
    Dead on my friend, I do ride a Tricross , and lucky for me Specialized started integrating fork crown hangers on the 2010 line.

    How often (maybe using mileage as a metric) do you gentlemen/ladies replace your brake pads?

  24. #24
    Flying Under the Radar X-LinkedRider's Avatar
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    There is no average for how often i change my pads. When they need changing, i change them. Depending on weather, terrain and most of all how much weight I am carrying with me (if I am on tour) all play WAY too big of factors to just give an average mileage change.
    12' SuperiorLite SL Pro w/ Sram Rival | 10' SuperiorLite SL Club w/ Sram Force | 06' Giant FCR (Dropbar) w/ Shimano 5700 | 10' GT Avalanche 3.0 Disc

  25. #25
    Senior Member meanwhile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpach View Post
    The 2011 Trek XO 1 and XO 2s come with fork mounted hangers, I noticed.
    It's nice to hear that bike makers are beginning to get this right. Hmmm, how many decades has it taken them?

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