Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Recreational Cyclocross and Gravelbiking This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-04-11, 08:40 PM   #1
david58
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
david58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Alamos, NM
Bikes: Fuji Cross Comp, BMC SR02
Posts: 1,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mount / Dismount Practice tomorrow - Questions

Well, tomorrow I put the cross tires back on the bike and try to learn some mounting and dismounting techniques.

I am a beginner 50+ Clyde, who ain't real flexible. It takes quite a stretch for me to get my leg over the seat as it is in "road mode."

So, some questions:
  • do I lower the seat to aid in mounts/dismounts?
  • do I go for cowboy or flying type mount?
  • what is the best beginner dismount?

I don't expect to be competitive this year, I just started riding in April. But there is enough competitor in me that I want to start off on the right foot, so to speak, and so I come to you for your advice. Ultimately, I will likely get all the lessons I want and more in the races, but any head start I can manage is to the good. I have seen one video of a gent at Rutgers showing a step over mount, but with my seat height for road riding I can't imagine a successful mount that way.

Thanks for your input!
david58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-11, 09:32 PM   #2
aggiegrads
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood, OR
Bikes:
Posts: 537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Me too, me too! I've started practicing mounts and dismounts myself, but it is more to get used to clipless pedals than technique. I'd like some beginner advice as well. If there are other southern Washington County crossers who want to get together to practice, I'm in.

david58, where in wet Oregon are you?
aggiegrads is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-11, 11:03 PM   #3
Andy_K 
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Bikes: 2013 Kona Jake, 2015 Kona Jake the Snake, 2008 Kona Major Jake, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, 2006 Kona Kula, 2012 Ridley Excalibur, 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker, 2001 LeMond Buenos Aires, 1984 Pinarello Gran Turismo, 1982 Trek 614, 1979 Austro-Daimler
Posts: 8,537
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
It's probably not a good idea to let mounting the bike dictate your saddle height. Lowering the saddle height can also lower your power output. That said, you probably do want your saddle slightly lower for CX than for road riding so that the bike has room to bounce a little below you on rough terrain. That said, check out this photo of Ryan Trebon's bike from yesterday's race:



(BTW, if I'm not mistaken, he was running clinchers.)

Now, let me walk you through how I was taught mounts/dismounts.

1. Practice picking up your bike. Start by finding the spot on the top tube where it balances front to back. Get that spot burned into your brain so you can grab it without thinking, because you'll need to. Practice picking the bike up like a suitcase, grabbing at that spot. Be sure you're lifting with your elbow between you and the saddle. Don't underestimate the importance of having this down pat.

2. Practice running beside your bike. You may feel dumb doing this, but it's important. You need to get a feel for how far you want the bike to be from you when you're running. Start at a trot and speed up as you get comfortable. When you feel very comfortable with this, pick the bike up like a suitcase and run with it that way.

3. Skip ahead to dismounts. Get on the bike and ride slowly on flat ground. Start by just unclipping and re-clipping your right foot as you coast along. When you're ready, try lifting your leg over the saddle and coasting along with your left foot still clipped in. If you're nervous about this, you can try practicing the coasting part first by clipping in your left foot while standing beside the bike and cruising along scooter style. If you can't get your right leg over the saddle while you're coasting, this whole venture probably isn't going to go well. If you can, you'll be able to do this like a pro.

Note: The clinics I've been to have all talked about how you should put your right hand on the top tube as you're dismounting to get ready to lift the bike. I've always found this is a sure recipe for falling on my face. I just can't work out the balance. So I dismount with both hands on the bars (probably releasing with the right hand just as my right foot is coming down). I started out doing it with my hands on the tops of the bars, but now I usually do it from the hoods. If you're comfortable putting a hand on the top tube, that's probably the way to go, but I think it's most important to do what feels comfortable to you.

Note also: Under no circumstances should you even consider touching the brakes while dismounting.

Note also also: Some people will tell you that you should step your right foot through between your left leg and the bike before unclipping your left foot or touching the ground. I am convinced this is non-sense. You can do it that way if you like, but stepping behind your left foot as you unclip the left foot works well and is much easier.

4. Get ready to get on the bike. At this point, I'm assuming a non-flying mount. Mr. Smith will need to tell you how the flying mount works. The way I was taught assumes that remounting doesn't actually involve jumping. Start by standing beside your bike and lifting your leg up onto the saddle. You want your thigh on the saddle with your knee just across. Practice lifting your leg up to this position until it feels natural, then work on doing it from a walk. Eventually, you're going to want to slide onto the bike from that position.

5. Do the mount. Just as above but actually getting on. Again, start very slowly. Walk as you do it, then trot. Don't run until you can do it at a trot. Don't look at the saddle. Look ahead of you. That will be very important in a race.

6. Put it all together. On as long a stretch of flat grassy field as you can find run along getting on the bike, clipping in, spinning the pedals one or twice and then getting off again. Repeat as often as possible.

Actually going over the barrier is important too, but I'll leave it at this for now except to say that you should be stepping over the barrier, not jumping it.

Good luck!
__________________
My Bikes

Last edited by Andy_K; 09-05-11 at 02:17 PM.
Andy_K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-11, 11:27 PM   #4
thenomad
Riding like its 1990
 
thenomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: IE, SoCal
Bikes:
Posts: 3,749
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yes, what he said.

Few little details to add: Grabbing the top tube once you are standing on the left pedal only actually helps you dismount the left foot. Grab the top tube and push it away from you slightly while squaring your hips and a step through dismount goes more seamlessly. If you dont push the bike away a little the left foot can hang on and then it's not pretty. This is where cowboy simplifies that a tad but your legs will need to get moving really fast. Of course, by the time you are super fast on the dismount you'll be trying the step through anyway. cowboy works well when momentum is being lost like a 90 deg turn to the barriers or an uphill barrier set. That's what I'm told.

I'm no expert but found my skills day was super useful and am now going to be the only geek in the park doing a bunch of dismounts and remounts.
thenomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 12:40 AM   #5
midschool22
Digging in the pain cave.
 
midschool22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 710
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
For those of you who don't know, Ryan is 6' 5". Check him out.

midschool22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 12:59 AM   #6
Andy_K 
Senior Member
 
Andy_K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Bikes: 2013 Kona Jake, 2015 Kona Jake the Snake, 2008 Kona Major Jake, 2013 Kona Jake the Snake, 2006 Kona Kula, 2012 Ridley Excalibur, 2008 Surly Long Haul Trucker, 2001 LeMond Buenos Aires, 1984 Pinarello Gran Turismo, 1982 Trek 614, 1979 Austro-Daimler
Posts: 8,537
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
(BTW, if I'm not mistaken, he was running clinchers.)
Upon further reflection, I'm probably wrong about this. I was saying so based on the tires being Clement Crusade PDX, but I just read in Cyclocross Magazine that a tubular version of these is supposed to be introduced this fall.
__________________
My Bikes
Andy_K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 05:44 AM   #7
flargle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenomad View Post
Grabbing the top tube once you are standing on the left pedal only actually helps you dismount the left foot.
+1

Here's a photo of Tim Johnson mid-hover:

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articl...Remounting.htm
So there's this moment when you unweight your left foot by pushing on the bars and top tube, that's when you unclip. I know some people (Myerson) teaches unclipping earlier in the process, but I hate bearing weight on the pedals without being clipped in.

The number one skill to practice is a proper remount from a standing start, both hands on the bars, no extra steps, just get on the bike and ride away. Over and over and over again. If you get this right, the rest comes a lot easier.

One last tip: After a portage, carefully PLACE the bike down, don't drop it.
flargle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 05:46 AM   #8
flargle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVvkZs7tvK4
flargle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 07:38 AM   #9
aggiegrads
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood, OR
Bikes:
Posts: 537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK, probably a dumb question, but which foot do you clip in first after a remount? I can get either foot clipped in quickly when I have one already in, but I have the hardest time getting the first one clipped in. Everything about the remount I have seen described ends with you feet presumably dangling over the bike.

I have been thinking that the right should go first, since the right crank arm is already just past TDC after the dismount.
aggiegrads is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 09:31 AM   #10
david58
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
david58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Alamos, NM
Bikes: Fuji Cross Comp, BMC SR02
Posts: 1,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggiegrads View Post
Me too, me too! I've started practicing mounts and dismounts myself, but it is more to get used to clipless pedals than technique. I'd like some beginner advice as well. If there are other southern Washington County crossers who want to get together to practice, I'm in.

david58, where in wet Oregon are you?
I'm in the Albany/Corvallis area. I can forsee a lot of time on my back in the yard today as I start working on this....my Labradors will likely be somewhat amused by the stupid master [again].
david58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 01:21 PM   #11
david58
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
david58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Alamos, NM
Bikes: Fuji Cross Comp, BMC SR02
Posts: 1,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The two dogs were entertained. Sheesh. I suppose it's important to be someone's entertainment whenever we can. I will fill that role Saturday....
david58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 01:40 PM   #12
flargle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggiegrads View Post
OK, probably a dumb question, but which foot do you clip in first after a remount?
Start pedaling, and worry about clipping in later. Sometimes you'll hit them both perfectly, other times it takes a while, but the key is to keep pedaling whether or not you're clipped in.
flargle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 02:09 PM   #13
aggiegrads
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood, OR
Bikes:
Posts: 537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by flargle View Post
Start pedaling, and worry about clipping in later. Sometimes you'll hit them both perfectly, other times it takes a while, but the key is to keep pedaling whether or not you're clipped in.
Thanks. That's pretty much what I've been doing up to now. I'll try to increase my rate of "first time clip-in" as time goes on. For now, I will be content to entertain the crowd with David58.
aggiegrads is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 03:16 PM   #14
fietsbob 
coprolite
 
fietsbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Bikes: 7
Posts: 18,781
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 214 Post(s)
Quote:
OK, probably a dumb question, but which foot do you clip in first after a remount?
both at the same time, (worked with toeclips) pedals at 3, And 9:00

or which ever pedal is on the bottom of the pedal stroke, 6:00, I'd say..
fietsbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 05:58 PM   #15
gfactor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by flargle View Post
Start pedaling, and worry about clipping in later. Sometimes you'll hit them both perfectly, other times it takes a while, but the key is to keep pedaling whether or not you're clipped in.
And don't look down.
gfactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-11, 06:37 PM   #16
flargle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gfactor View Post
And don't look down.
Yes! Great point. True on the remount, too.
flargle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-11, 12:49 PM   #17
STP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by flargle View Post
+1

Here's a photo of Tim Johnson mid-hover:

http://www.active.com/cycling/Articl...Remounting.htm
So there's this moment when you unweight your left foot by pushing on the bars and top tube, that's when you unclip. I know some people (Myerson) teaches unclipping earlier in the process, but I hate bearing weight on the pedals without being clipped in.

The number one skill to practice is a proper remount from a standing start, both hands on the bars, no extra steps, just get on the bike and ride away. Over and over and over again. If you get this right, the rest comes a lot easier.

One last tip: After a portage, carefully PLACE the bike down, don't drop it.
What you can't see here is that he's bracing the seat against his right hip which stabilizes the whole process. Andy K (above) said that the top tube grab was not stable for him. Maybe he's not bracing the seat against his hip. When you have your seat braced, the right hand on the top tube should allow you all sorts of control, BUT YOU HAVE TO PRACTICE IT! Part of your training schedule for racing should be 15-20 mounts/dismounts on a training day the week before the race. This is a skill and must be practiced just like off camber turns and jumping the barriers!
STP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-11, 12:54 PM   #18
STP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Bikes:
Posts: 301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
Note also also: Some people will tell you that you should step your right foot through between your left leg and the bike before unclipping your left foot or touching the ground. I am convinced this is non-sense. You can do it that way if you like, but stepping behind your left foot as you unclip the left foot works well and is much easier.
Yeah, don't do this. Step behind. Stepping through is the old way of doing it and it's not taught anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
4. Get ready to get on the bike. At this point, I'm assuming a non-flying mount. Mr. Smith will need to tell you how the flying mount works. The way I was taught assumes that remounting doesn't actually involve jumping. Start by standing beside your bike and lifting your leg up onto the saddle. You want your thigh on the saddle with your knee just across. Practice lifting your leg up to this position until it feels natural, then work on doing it from a walk. Eventually, you're going to want to slide onto the bike from that position.
You have to push off the ground with your left foot to get your right thigh over the seat. Don't hop or jump, push!
STP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:30 AM.