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Recreational Cyclocross and Gravelbiking This has to be the most physically intense sport ever invented. It's high speed bicycle racing on a short off road course or riding the off pavement rides on gravel like :The Dirty Kanza". We also have a dedicated Racing forum for the Cyclocross Hard Core Racers.

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Old 09-26-11, 09:17 AM   #1
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Framebuilder-Added Canti Bosses?

I'm in search of the cheapest way to build up a "real" cross bike.

My shop has invited me to get into it this winter, and I love to support them, but all my money has gone into a home rennovation this year.

I have an abundance of 126mm frames in various states of build up. There's a Trek 620 with canti bosses, but I truly want to have a real nice touring rig. I'd take my 66cm panasonic out, but it has calipers and not much room for big tires.

One thing I was thinking about was my 700c Shogun 600. It's got a 62cm ST and something like a 54 cm TT. Cable guides on the top of the TT. Horiz. dropouts. I'm not sure what the BB drop is on it.



Wouldn't that make a cool jerry-rigged 'cross frame? If a framebuilder could install bosses for fairly cheap, I'd have a sub $300 rig to go and mud up.

Has anyone else done something like this?
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Old 09-26-11, 11:02 AM   #2
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I'm in search of the cheapest way to build up a "real" cross bike.

My shop has invited me to get into it this winter, and I love to support them, but all my money has gone into a home rennovation this year.

I have an abundance of 126mm frames in various states of build up. There's a Trek 620 with canti bosses, but I truly want to have a real nice touring rig. I'd take my 66cm panasonic out, but it has calipers and not much room for big tires.

One thing I was thinking about was my 700c Shogun 600. It's got a 62cm ST and something like a 54 cm TT. Cable guides on the top of the TT. Horiz. dropouts. I'm not sure what the BB drop is on it.



Wouldn't that make a cool jerry-rigged 'cross frame? If a framebuilder could install bosses for fairly cheap, I'd have a sub $300 rig to go and mud up.

Has anyone else done something like this?
Are you sure that TT is only 54cm? Seems too short to me given the ST size. That said, I think the Shogun might make for a nice budget 'cross bike. I had a frame builder add canti studs to my Shogun 1500 frame (63cm ST, 57cm TT), to make it into a 650B rando bike. I splurged on a nice powder coat afterward:



Best thing to do is check for clearance for wide cross tires first... That bike should have a fairly lightweight steel frame so it would be worth the investment if you like the way it feels and it fits you.
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Old 09-26-11, 11:36 AM   #3
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That looks awesome. Perhaps he could have a 650b cyclocross bike - to give him wider tire clearance. That would be interesting. Are those ever used?
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Old 09-26-11, 12:34 PM   #4
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You certainly could add cantilevers to a steel bike, here was my conversion;
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=#post12712430

I am a bit uncertain that Shogun would make a decent conversion. Any idea if it is Cr-Mo or is it Hi-tensile steel? Hi-10 will be heavy and probably not strong enough, I have seen some chepo CX conversions where a low quality frame simply disintigrated under the stress. I dont know this Shogun model but it looks to me as somewhat lower end (stamped seatpost binder, minimal finish work on the chainstay/seatstay junctions at the dropout). Rack eyelets suggest possible touring geomotry which may be too sluggish for actual CX racing.
I would suggest you check the mud clearance, weigh the frame to discern if it is decent tubing or a POS. The TT measurement sounds way off, measure the ST and TT center-to-center and try to get an idea of the frame angles. (a side picture with the TT horizontal would help). If you do go forward with it, I would probably suggest you first build the bike up as a pseudo-CX (tires at least) and ride it a bit first with the existing brakes to see how it fits and performes before you spend $$ on a canti-boss conversion. Depending on what it cost you to have the post added and what you spend on paint, it might be just as cost effective to just buy a new nashbar or BD chinese frame and have a better bike in the end. Dumping money into a conversion of a mediocre frame will just result in an expensive mediocre frame.
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Old 09-26-11, 04:19 PM   #5
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I have been thinking about it. I recently built up my old Trek 660 as a SSCX bike. It's quick, stiff, and lighter than my geared aluminum CX bike. A few years ago I'd bought a set of old Raleigh branded Mafac-style centerpull brakes and these give me a little more tire clearance, but I'm still limited to 30mm knobbies.




Another limitation is that the dropouts on the Trek are horizontal but quite short, so I'm limited to a few teeth change. So if I were to add canti bosses, I'd probably also have the dropouts replaced with track ends, like these Pauls:



As GrayJay rightly noted, I don't want to dump a bunch of money into a bad bike, but I love the way this bike fits and feels and I love the idea of giving the old race bike a new racing life on the dirt.
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Old 09-26-11, 05:05 PM   #6
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It's Tange 900 Cr-Mo. Decent-- a middle range bike. Not fancy but nice and light. BF's Sixty Fiver has posted good things about the ride quality and build quality of Tange 900 bikes.



I multimodal commute with a heavy 26" folder with 2.1" tires and full fenders, and throw it on my shoulder to run up and down staircases at the train station, so any road bike will be an improvement! But this is a light frame.

I always say this when people knock all hi-ten bikes -- My Double Butted Hi-Ten Panasonic spec'd out at 24 lbs in 1981-- some hi ten bikes are pretty light and strong... I was first through the 50 mile mark on a local century on mine after leaving 20 mins late. I bonked and took a wrong turn at mile 95, but even with the racks on it, it put a lot of CF bikes to shame!

Your suggestion for a caliper brake build makes a lot of sense.

Next is shifting. I have some stem shifters around. It strikes me as a reasonably good way to set up an uber cheap CX bike.

I'm serious about the TT measurement. It's nowhere near what you'd expect with such a long ST.
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Old 09-26-11, 05:08 PM   #7
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Nice, Caloso. I was surprised to not see more bikes like yours as I read through the threads in this subforum. CX seems like just the place to take a cobbled together old steel bike and get in the mix.
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Old 09-26-11, 07:02 PM   #8
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Due to being budget-challenged, that's what I've done - thru the magic of ebay and CL, I spent about 250 on a new wheelset, cheap STIs, new cables & bar tape, and two sets of tires (Speedmax and Mud2s) for my old Bianchi Volpe that I've had since 1990. It's about 24lb right now, but it's probably the least of my issues as an old out of shape dude who provides endless entertainment at the barriers.
Plus there's the built in excuse of 'of course I'm DFL, my bike's older than you are...' which can also spin into additional humiliation for anyone I beat, since my bike's old enough to drink my after-race recovery beverage with me.
Here's my first cx outing; strangely I don't look as close to death as I felt....
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Old 09-26-11, 07:45 PM   #9
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rock on xlr!

that photo, though--- I guess re-packing the bottom bracket bearings would be a must after a race like that!
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Old 09-26-11, 11:14 PM   #10
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Due to being budget-challenged, that's what I've done - thru the magic of ebay and CL, I spent about 250 on a new wheelset, cheap STIs, new cables & bar tape, and two sets of tires (Speedmax and Mud2s) for my old Bianchi Volpe that I've had since 1990. It's about 24lb right now, but it's probably the least of my issues as an old out of shape dude who provides endless entertainment at the barriers.
Plus there's the built in excuse of 'of course I'm DFL, my bike's older than you are...' which can also spin into additional humiliation for anyone I beat, since my bike's old enough to drink my after-race recovery beverage with me.
Here's my first cx outing; strangely I don't look as close to death as I felt....
Hang in there, I jumped back into CX couple years ago after a 15year competition retirement and was finishing DFL. This summer, I made a point to spend at least some time on my bike to restore some resemblance of fitness for CX racing and cut back on the pizza. This year I am actually riding mid-pack and having a blast. My bike frame (and me) both qualify for the 40+ veteran age group.
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Old 09-26-11, 11:23 PM   #11
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Standalone-
If it is a CrMo frame it will probably be worth trying to convert. Just check that the fork and stays are also CrMo. Problem with Hi-ten steel is that it only has about 1/2 the tensile strength of CrMo so it will either be seriously overbuilt and weigh a ton (and feel dead) or if it is a lightweight Hi-ten then it can easily break from the abuse of CX. If you find that it does have a hi-ten fork but rest of the frame is decent, you can always try to find a CrMo (or alu or carbon) CX fork with bosses rather than adding bosses to the hi-10.
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Old 09-27-11, 09:25 AM   #12
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Standalone-
If it is a CrMo frame it will probably be worth trying to convert. Just check that the fork and stays are also CrMo. Problem with Hi-ten steel is that it only has about 1/2 the tensile strength of CrMo so it will either be seriously overbuilt and weigh a ton (and feel dead) or if it is a lightweight Hi-ten then it can easily break from the abuse of CX. If you find that it does have a hi-ten fork but rest of the frame is decent, you can always try to find a CrMo (or alu or carbon) CX fork with bosses rather than adding bosses to the hi-10.
Kind of halfway between the two. It's a Magnalloy Fork.
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Old 09-27-11, 09:36 AM   #13
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And I really did re-measure the frame. ST: 62CTT. TT: 54.5 CTC

I'm guessing the ST angle must be pretty high and the HT angle low. 73/70? The 25" Atala I did up for my dad was 70/70. Nicest riding (and looking) gaspipe bike ever.
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Old 09-27-11, 09:57 AM   #14
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Unless you have freakishly long legs and a short torso, it doesnt sound like a great fitting frame. CX top tube should same or just slightly shorter than a good road bike fit, no reason to go several cm too short. A shallow head tube angle will make it slow steering. For actual CX racing, medium quick steering is more desirable, you need to be able to maneuver around the obstacles, not plow through them.
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Old 09-27-11, 10:07 AM   #15
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Here's mine:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...-CX!?highlight

Works fine!
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Old 09-30-11, 02:57 PM   #16
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A warning.

As you move up in age groups, it doesn't get easier. Turns out that the old geezers in the next age group up are there for a reason...to compete!

Lee
Cat 4, 51 YO, sometimes DFL
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Old 09-30-11, 08:57 PM   #17
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Looks too tight....

700x35.




And it is a short TT.....

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