Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New Haven, CT, USA
    My Bikes
    Road, Cargo, Tandem, Etc.
    Posts
    2,764
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Framebuilder-Added Canti Bosses?

    I'm in search of the cheapest way to build up a "real" cross bike.

    My shop has invited me to get into it this winter, and I love to support them, but all my money has gone into a home rennovation this year.

    I have an abundance of 126mm frames in various states of build up. There's a Trek 620 with canti bosses, but I truly want to have a real nice touring rig. I'd take my 66cm panasonic out, but it has calipers and not much room for big tires.

    One thing I was thinking about was my 700c Shogun 600. It's got a 62cm ST and something like a 54 cm TT. Cable guides on the top of the TT. Horiz. dropouts. I'm not sure what the BB drop is on it.



    Wouldn't that make a cool jerry-rigged 'cross frame? If a framebuilder could install bosses for fairly cheap, I'd have a sub $300 rig to go and mud up.

    Has anyone else done something like this?
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

  2. #2
    Senior Member southpawboston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Somerville, MA and Catskill Mtns
    My Bikes
    '71 Mercian, '72 Jeunet, '82 Jack Taylor, '13 Rawland
    Posts
    3,537
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Standalone View Post
    I'm in search of the cheapest way to build up a "real" cross bike.

    My shop has invited me to get into it this winter, and I love to support them, but all my money has gone into a home rennovation this year.

    I have an abundance of 126mm frames in various states of build up. There's a Trek 620 with canti bosses, but I truly want to have a real nice touring rig. I'd take my 66cm panasonic out, but it has calipers and not much room for big tires.

    One thing I was thinking about was my 700c Shogun 600. It's got a 62cm ST and something like a 54 cm TT. Cable guides on the top of the TT. Horiz. dropouts. I'm not sure what the BB drop is on it.



    Wouldn't that make a cool jerry-rigged 'cross frame? If a framebuilder could install bosses for fairly cheap, I'd have a sub $300 rig to go and mud up.

    Has anyone else done something like this?
    Are you sure that TT is only 54cm? Seems too short to me given the ST size. That said, I think the Shogun might make for a nice budget 'cross bike. I had a frame builder add canti studs to my Shogun 1500 frame (63cm ST, 57cm TT), to make it into a 650B rando bike. I splurged on a nice powder coat afterward:



    Best thing to do is check for clearance for wide cross tires first... That bike should have a fairly lightweight steel frame so it would be worth the investment if you like the way it feels and it fits you.

  3. #3
    Green Tea Lemonade Oil_LOL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Highland Park, NJ
    Posts
    369
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by southpawboston View Post
    That looks awesome. Perhaps he could have a 650b cyclocross bike - to give him wider tire clearance. That would be interesting. Are those ever used?

  4. #4
    Senior Member GrayJay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    EagleRiver AK
    Posts
    1,225
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You certainly could add cantilevers to a steel bike, here was my conversion;
    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=#post12712430

    I am a bit uncertain that Shogun would make a decent conversion. Any idea if it is Cr-Mo or is it Hi-tensile steel? Hi-10 will be heavy and probably not strong enough, I have seen some chepo CX conversions where a low quality frame simply disintigrated under the stress. I dont know this Shogun model but it looks to me as somewhat lower end (stamped seatpost binder, minimal finish work on the chainstay/seatstay junctions at the dropout). Rack eyelets suggest possible touring geomotry which may be too sluggish for actual CX racing.
    I would suggest you check the mud clearance, weigh the frame to discern if it is decent tubing or a POS. The TT measurement sounds way off, measure the ST and TT center-to-center and try to get an idea of the frame angles. (a side picture with the TT horizontal would help). If you do go forward with it, I would probably suggest you first build the bike up as a pseudo-CX (tires at least) and ride it a bit first with the existing brakes to see how it fits and performes before you spend $$ on a canti-boss conversion. Depending on what it cost you to have the post added and what you spend on paint, it might be just as cost effective to just buy a new nashbar or BD chinese frame and have a better bike in the end. Dumping money into a conversion of a mediocre frame will just result in an expensive mediocre frame.

  5. #5
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Sacramento, California, USA
    My Bikes
    Ridley Excalibur, Gazelle Champion Mondial, On-One Pompino, Specialized Rock Hopper
    Posts
    29,828
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have been thinking about it. I recently built up my old Trek 660 as a SSCX bike. It's quick, stiff, and lighter than my geared aluminum CX bike. A few years ago I'd bought a set of old Raleigh branded Mafac-style centerpull brakes and these give me a little more tire clearance, but I'm still limited to 30mm knobbies.




    Another limitation is that the dropouts on the Trek are horizontal but quite short, so I'm limited to a few teeth change. So if I were to add canti bosses, I'd probably also have the dropouts replaced with track ends, like these Pauls:



    As GrayJay rightly noted, I don't want to dump a bunch of money into a bad bike, but I love the way this bike fits and feels and I love the idea of giving the old race bike a new racing life on the dirt.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  6. #6
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New Haven, CT, USA
    My Bikes
    Road, Cargo, Tandem, Etc.
    Posts
    2,764
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's Tange 900 Cr-Mo. Decent-- a middle range bike. Not fancy but nice and light. BF's Sixty Fiver has posted good things about the ride quality and build quality of Tange 900 bikes.



    I multimodal commute with a heavy 26" folder with 2.1" tires and full fenders, and throw it on my shoulder to run up and down staircases at the train station, so any road bike will be an improvement! But this is a light frame.

    I always say this when people knock all hi-ten bikes -- My Double Butted Hi-Ten Panasonic spec'd out at 24 lbs in 1981-- some hi ten bikes are pretty light and strong... I was first through the 50 mile mark on a local century on mine after leaving 20 mins late. I bonked and took a wrong turn at mile 95, but even with the racks on it, it put a lot of CF bikes to shame!

    Your suggestion for a caliper brake build makes a lot of sense.

    Next is shifting. I have some stem shifters around. It strikes me as a reasonably good way to set up an uber cheap CX bike.

    I'm serious about the TT measurement. It's nowhere near what you'd expect with such a long ST.
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

  7. #7
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New Haven, CT, USA
    My Bikes
    Road, Cargo, Tandem, Etc.
    Posts
    2,764
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Nice, Caloso. I was surprised to not see more bikes like yours as I read through the threads in this subforum. CX seems like just the place to take a cobbled together old steel bike and get in the mix.
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

  8. #8
    Senior Member XLR99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Medina, OH
    My Bikes
    85 Cilo, '91 Bianchi Volpe, '00 Gary Fisher, '74 Raleigh SuperCourse, '06 Soma Groove, '09 Nashbar X
    Posts
    275
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Due to being budget-challenged, that's what I've done - thru the magic of ebay and CL, I spent about 250 on a new wheelset, cheap STIs, new cables & bar tape, and two sets of tires (Speedmax and Mud2s) for my old Bianchi Volpe that I've had since 1990. It's about 24lb right now, but it's probably the least of my issues as an old out of shape dude who provides endless entertainment at the barriers.
    Plus there's the built in excuse of 'of course I'm DFL, my bike's older than you are...' which can also spin into additional humiliation for anyone I beat, since my bike's old enough to drink my after-race recovery beverage with me.
    Here's my first cx outing; strangely I don't look as close to death as I felt....
    WendyPark_Cx.50.jpg

  9. #9
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New Haven, CT, USA
    My Bikes
    Road, Cargo, Tandem, Etc.
    Posts
    2,764
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    rock on xlr!

    that photo, though--- I guess re-packing the bottom bracket bearings would be a must after a race like that!
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

  10. #10
    Senior Member GrayJay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    EagleRiver AK
    Posts
    1,225
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by XLR99 View Post
    Due to being budget-challenged, that's what I've done - thru the magic of ebay and CL, I spent about 250 on a new wheelset, cheap STIs, new cables & bar tape, and two sets of tires (Speedmax and Mud2s) for my old Bianchi Volpe that I've had since 1990. It's about 24lb right now, but it's probably the least of my issues as an old out of shape dude who provides endless entertainment at the barriers.
    Plus there's the built in excuse of 'of course I'm DFL, my bike's older than you are...' which can also spin into additional humiliation for anyone I beat, since my bike's old enough to drink my after-race recovery beverage with me.
    Here's my first cx outing; strangely I don't look as close to death as I felt....
    WendyPark_Cx.50.jpg
    Hang in there, I jumped back into CX couple years ago after a 15year competition retirement and was finishing DFL. This summer, I made a point to spend at least some time on my bike to restore some resemblance of fitness for CX racing and cut back on the pizza. This year I am actually riding mid-pack and having a blast. My bike frame (and me) both qualify for the 40+ veteran age group.

  11. #11
    Senior Member GrayJay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    EagleRiver AK
    Posts
    1,225
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Standalone-
    If it is a CrMo frame it will probably be worth trying to convert. Just check that the fork and stays are also CrMo. Problem with Hi-ten steel is that it only has about 1/2 the tensile strength of CrMo so it will either be seriously overbuilt and weigh a ton (and feel dead) or if it is a lightweight Hi-ten then it can easily break from the abuse of CX. If you find that it does have a hi-ten fork but rest of the frame is decent, you can always try to find a CrMo (or alu or carbon) CX fork with bosses rather than adding bosses to the hi-10.

  12. #12
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New Haven, CT, USA
    My Bikes
    Road, Cargo, Tandem, Etc.
    Posts
    2,764
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by GrayJay View Post
    Standalone-
    If it is a CrMo frame it will probably be worth trying to convert. Just check that the fork and stays are also CrMo. Problem with Hi-ten steel is that it only has about 1/2 the tensile strength of CrMo so it will either be seriously overbuilt and weigh a ton (and feel dead) or if it is a lightweight Hi-ten then it can easily break from the abuse of CX. If you find that it does have a hi-ten fork but rest of the frame is decent, you can always try to find a CrMo (or alu or carbon) CX fork with bosses rather than adding bosses to the hi-10.
    Kind of halfway between the two. It's a Magnalloy Fork.
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

  13. #13
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New Haven, CT, USA
    My Bikes
    Road, Cargo, Tandem, Etc.
    Posts
    2,764
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    And I really did re-measure the frame. ST: 62CTT. TT: 54.5 CTC

    I'm guessing the ST angle must be pretty high and the HT angle low. 73/70? The 25" Atala I did up for my dad was 70/70. Nicest riding (and looking) gaspipe bike ever.
    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

  14. #14
    Senior Member GrayJay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    EagleRiver AK
    Posts
    1,225
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Unless you have freakishly long legs and a short torso, it doesnt sound like a great fitting frame. CX top tube should same or just slightly shorter than a good road bike fit, no reason to go several cm too short. A shallow head tube angle will make it slow steering. For actual CX racing, medium quick steering is more desirable, you need to be able to maneuver around the obstacles, not plow through them.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    168
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    121
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A warning.

    As you move up in age groups, it doesn't get easier. Turns out that the old geezers in the next age group up are there for a reason...to compete!

    Lee
    Cat 4, 51 YO, sometimes DFL

  17. #17
    babylon by bike Standalone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    New Haven, CT, USA
    My Bikes
    Road, Cargo, Tandem, Etc.
    Posts
    2,764
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Looks too tight....

    700x35.




    And it is a short TT.....

    The bicycle, the bicycle surely, should always be the vehicle of novelists and poets. Christopher Morley

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •