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  1. #1
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    Would like input on rim choices (relative to Mavic Open Pro)

    I was home for military leave for a couple of weeks (currently baking in Kuwait) and had a chance to try out some of the toys I had ordered while I was gone, many of which were purchased with the much appreciated input from this board. I got to put about 100 miles on my CX inspired commuter bike over the course of 2 weeks.

    I realize it's hard to judge how much difference a particular component makes when you replace several things at once but I went from a 49t to a 44 t front sprocket on my 1x9 setup, and also added a set of 35mm file tread tires on Shimano hubs/Mavic Open Pros (was a mediocre pair of Bontrager Wheels w/ 25mm tires). The front sprocket narrowed the feel of the gear change when shifted on my wide range cassette, just as expected, and the new rims and tires just felt fast and smooth, like you would expect from fatter tires run at lower pressure. The wheel/tire combo weighed noticeably less than my "road" set up as well. Granted I was just happy to be back on a bike again but everything felt damn nice.

    Anyway, I'm working on a new build for commuter use that will pretty much be a CX bike (other bike has riser bars and this one won't have the commuter niceities). I really like the Open Pro rims but I was wondering what else might be available that you guys can recommend. I don't have much experience in this area so any reccomendations with an explanation relative to how it is different from to Open Pros would be most helpful.

    Pertinent details:
    I weigh 175 pounds

    Currently have 32h front and rear Mavic Open pros on Shimano Dura-Ace 7900 hubs. The rim sidewalls have a black finish that I dig (I believe it is referred to as ceramic and it is discontinued).

    I would like to get a 36h rear hub and a 28h front and a set of rims with an all black finish similar to what I have now.

    Utimately I would like my current ride to have the 36r/32f combo and the new ride to have a 32f/28f combo.

    Suggestions for an all black rim that would be a good replacement to the OP's?

    Are the all black OP's available anywhere?

    Thanks,
    TM

  2. #2
    Senior Member JonnyHK's Avatar
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    Similar to the Open Pro...

    Single eyelet - DT Swiss RR415

    Double eyelet - DT Swiss RR465

    No eyelet - Velocity A23, Velocity Arrowhead, Kinlin 200 (also sold as IRD)


    But if you are looking for a CX bike, perhaps something beefier like the Velocity Dyad or the Kinlin 300?


    FTR - I've got Velocity Dyads on my commuting bike (32 hole), Kinlin 300 on my main race/training bike (24/28), and Open Pros on my secondary race bike (stored in another country for when I'm there - 28/32)

  3. #3
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    Mavic CD, their hard anodizing treatment is a dark grey.. maybe thats dark enough?
    ceramic braking surface is a foul weather braking advantage..
    with the appropriate brake pads ..

  4. #4
    Delusional Laserbrain Germanicus's Avatar
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    As far as all black goes... I think most rims are black with decals or stickers to add logo and color. Just use alcohol to remove the stickers and then scrub it down with GooGoneŽ to get rid of the sticky residue. For less then $10 and an hour of elbow grease you can make most rims "All-black"

  5. #5
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyHK View Post
    No eyelet - Velocity A23
    This (or the other below) if you're putting together a budget build ($60/rim). If you're throwing a bit of money around, go with the HED Belgian series rim http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...&category=4176 for $100 a pop.

    Either way, I'd go with hubs off of http://www.bikehubstore.com/ and possibly this rim http://www.bikehubstore.com/category-s/162.htm although I can't recommend this rim because I've never actually had one in my hands. All in all, though, it looks pretty good.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyHK View Post
    But if you are looking for a CX bike, perhaps something beefier like the Velocity Dyad or the Kinlin 300?

    FTR - I've got Velocity Dyads on my commuting bike (32 hole), Kinlin 300 on my main race/training bike (24/28), and Open Pros on my secondary race bike (stored in another country for when I'm there - 28/32)
    Kinlin XR-300's? After much research I think I might go that route. Are the aero properties a real world benefit (in an aerodymanic sense, not the somewhat debateable reasons some CX users subscribe to, CX is not a primary concern for me)?

    Also, another reason I was attracted to them were that higher profile rims seem to be noted for their duraility. That being the case, would a lower spoke count be out of the question? I was thinking the 24/28 combo you had seemed like a good idea but I'm not sure if it is right my application.

    It seems IRD has quite a mark up on their Cadence Aero rim that is supplied by Kinlin and has the same specs.

    Can you recommend a good retailer for these?

    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    Mavic CD, their hard anodizing treatment is a dark grey.. maybe thats dark enough? ceramic braking surface is a foul weather braking advantage..
    with the appropriate brake pads ..
    Not a bad recommendation but I have reservations regarding the durability of any colored rim brake surface that isn't ceramic.

    Personal rant... Mavic's website sucks:
    http://www.mavic.com/en/product/rims.../rims/Open-Pro

    They have very little info regarding the different options for that rim. I had to Google to find out that the CD finish is optional and I'm pretty sure they only come in 32h (I might be wrong but the answer not to be found on the product page)


    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    Either way, I'd go with hubs off of http://www.bikehubstore.com/ and possibly this rim http://www.bikehubstore.com/category-s/162.htm although I can't recommend this rim because I've never actually had one in my hands. All in all, though, it looks pretty good.
    I didn't ask about hubs, not that I mind, but I wondered why you recomended those specifically. Personally I'm a fan of Shimano hubs. I think the biggest selling point that they lack is not having any "trick" appearance to them. Most of the pricey hubs look great but they aren't forged and IMO cartridge bearings don't have any real advantage over cone bearings. Shimano hubs are easily user serviceable (not true of a lot of the pricey option). Ideally I'd like to pick up a used set of Dura-Ace 7900 hubs off of eBay but they don't show up very often and having the desired hole count on the ones that do is pretty rare. My rim choice will help determine my spoke count and then the search for hubs will start.

    Thanks everybody for the input so far, I learned a LOT.

    TM

  7. #7
    Wheelsuck Fat Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
    Kinlin XR-300's? After much research I think I might go that route. Are the aero properties a real world benefit (in an aerodymanic sense, not the somewhat debateable reasons some CX users subscribe to, CX is not a primary concern for me)?
    I've got a set of XR300's that I built and ride on the road a lot. They're a good rim. There is some aero component to them, but with round spokes, I'd say pretty minimal. The bright side is that don't get blown around much, either (especially true with round spokes). The 300 is a little flimsy when you build it. I've never had any complaints when riding them, but don't expect it to take the abuse of a Velocity or other rim that is heavier duty.


    Quote Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
    Also, another reason I was attracted to them were that higher profile rims seem to be noted for their duraility. That being the case, would a lower spoke count be out of the question? I was thinking the 24/28 combo you had seemed like a good idea but I'm not sure if it is right my application.

    It seems IRD has quite a mark up on their Cadence Aero rim that is supplied by Kinlin and has the same specs.

    Can you recommend a good retailer for these?
    I wouldn't get the 300 for durability just because it's 30mm. It's a pretty light rim. Not XR200 light, but when you're looking at a >1500g wheelset, it's pretty light.

    I'd say you could ride 24/28 spoke count without too much trouble. Especially if you're running bigger (read lower pressure) tires. The question really is if you're going to do much off-road riding with it. If you're going to be beating it up, go 28/32. If it's just a 'ride around' bike, you're good. If you commute with the thing loaded down, I'd opt for the 28/32, both from a weight and reliability standpoint.

    For a retailer, to get whatever rims, you could do a lot worse than http://www.psimet.com/

    Quote Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
    I didn't ask about hubs, not that I mind, but I wondered why you recomended those specifically. Personally I'm a fan of Shimano hubs. I think the biggest selling point that they lack is not having any "trick" appearance to them. Most of the pricey hubs look great but they aren't forged and IMO cartridge bearings don't have any real advantage over cone bearings. Shimano hubs are easily user serviceable (not true of a lot of the pricey option). Ideally I'd like to pick up a used set of Dura-Ace 7900 hubs off of eBay but they don't show up very often and having the desired hole count on the ones that do is pretty rare. My rim choice will help determine my spoke count and then the search for hubs will start.
    Shimano makes really nice hubs, especially the Dura-Ace stuff. Having said that, they're not cheap. If you're going for the high-buck, then Chris King, DT Swiss, Alchemy, etc. all make good hubs, but you'll pay for them. My recomendation was just a place to get some cheap that were maybe slightly better than Ebay Chinese imports. At least these actually have a name brand and a business that will provide service. I've bought some of the light Dati hubs. They're pretty nice.

    Oh ya, regardless of what else you choose...brass nipples.

  8. #8
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    If you want the rims , even the brake track, to stay black,
    you have to run disc brakes.

    FRICTION IS HOW YOU STOP!

    My CD anodized rims [ex721] did not brake evenly,
    till after I wore thru the Anodizing on the brake track.

    only carbon fiber rims are more than a couple microns thick
    of surface color.
    Last edited by fietsbob; 05-17-12 at 12:34 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    I've got a set of XR300's that I built and ride on the road a lot. They're a good rim. There is some aero component to them, but with round spokes, I'd say pretty minimal. The bright side is that don't get blown around much, either (especially true with round spokes). The 300 is a little flimsy when you build it. I've never had any complaints when riding them, but don't expect it to take the abuse of a Velocity or other rim that is heavier duty.

    I wouldn't get the 300 for durability just because it's 30mm. It's a pretty light rim. Not XR200 light, but when you're looking at a >1500g wheelset, it's pretty light.

    I'd say you could ride 24/28 spoke count without too much trouble. Especially if you're running bigger (read lower pressure) tires. The question really is if you're going to do much off-road riding with it. If you're going to be beating it up, go 28/32. If it's just a 'ride around' bike, you're good. If you commute with the thing loaded down, I'd opt for the 28/32, both from a weight and reliability standpoint.
    Good info, I just found the XR-380, I might go with that. Here's how i plan to use the bike... mostly fair weather commuting with fairly narrow tires (25-30mm). I run my current 25mm road tires on my commuter as high as 100 psi (because I'm too lazy to air them up every couple of days)but I think I will start going with less on those and filling more often (recently got a 2nd set of wheels with 35mm tires at 65-75? psi and it's so much smoother). If I plan to do much off roading I'll just use my 35mm tire/wheel combo. I'd like this build to be my "fast wheels". However, I do ride at night a lot and every once in a while I hit a spot in the road that makes my sphincter tighten. I also tend to ride off curbs on a regular basis, evenly if at speed, and I bunnyhop up curbs on an irregular basis (it's sketchy but it makes me smile). \

    My commuting load if anything consists of a seat bag and MAYBE a light backpack. I don't own any racks.

    What are your thoughts on the additional strength of the 380 w/ a 24/28 combo? Regarding aerodynamic properties... I was planning on bladed spokes as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    Shimano makes really nice hubs, especially the Dura-Ace stuff. Having said that, they're not cheap. If you're going for the high-buck, then Chris King, DT Swiss, Alchemy, etc. all make good hubs, but you'll pay for them. My recomendation was just a place to get some cheap that were maybe slightly better than Ebay Chinese imports. At least these actually have a name brand and a business that will provide service. I've bought some of the light Dati hubs. They're pretty nice.
    DA hubs are pricey but a used 7900 32/28 combo went for $200 on Ebay recently. If I go with a boutique hub I'm considering White Industries H2/H3. I'll have to do some more research though and I really hate the idea of paying more for a non-forged hub body. The difference can be made up for by adding additional material but that's just silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Boy View Post
    Oh ya, regardless of what else you choose...brass nipples.
    Corrosion resistance? Of course I've heard this but I don't know how much truth there is to it, particularly when anti-sieze is used.


    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    If you want the rims , even the brake track, to stay black, you have to run disc brakes.

    FRICTION IS HOW YOU STOP!

    My CD anodized rims [ex721] did not brake evenly, till after I wore thru the Anodizing on the brake track. only carbon fiber rims are more than a couple microns thick of surface color.
    fietsbob, you just confirmed my concern on the CD finish. My original request was based on compromises I thought I would HAVE to make as well as my desire to be able to use an extra Open Pro 32h rim that I have. Well, that and a lack of knowledge of other options. Thanks to the input I've gotten, and the lack of a durable black sidewall finish due to the ceramics OP's being out of production, I have changed my want list somewhat.

    I also take slight issue with your estimation of the thickness of anodized/ceramic finishes. Type II and Type III industrial ano is about .002-.003" thick and much harder than other ano finishes. Type I ano (sometimes called bright anodizing) is less thick approx .001 inch. However industrial ano is always dull black or grayish or some type of nasty dark green or a combo of the three (basically it doesn't look good) so a silver sidewall will not be an industrial hard ano. Admittedly, I don't know about Mavic's ceramic finish, if I had to guess I would say it is in fact hard ano even if they say it's not ano, this might be marketing's doing so they don't have to explain the difference btw different anodizing methods. Also, I have seen at least 2 very different non-cycling applications in which industrial ano was advertised as "ceramic" which I believe technically it is (as is non-industrial ano but just not as hard... I think).

    Not a big deal either way and I appreciate the help.

    TM
    Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 05-17-12 at 04:47 PM. Reason: added info... as if I'm not long winded enough.

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