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-   -   SRAM goes 1x (http://www.bikeforums.net/recreational-cyclocross-gravelbiking/937731-sram-goes-1x.html)

Andy_K 03-11-14 11:17 AM

SRAM goes 1x
 
SRAM reveals CX1 one-by cyclocross group - BikeRadar

Whaddaya think?

grolby 03-11-14 11:56 AM

I think that most do-it-at-home 1-by-X setups are noble in spirit but functionally misguided, for two reasons. First, chain retention, which really isn't adequately solved even by the various devices out there, especially since, with many of them, if the chain DOES hop, it tends to get very badly jammed. Second, gear range, which even with a 1x10 setup is a bit compromised.

A bespoke 1x11 system, though, is pretty interesting because it can essentially fix the first problem, and with an 11 cog cassette, it's much closer to the point where losing the chainring seems reasonable. I'm still not convinced for my own use. You can still get better gear spacing with even my 2x9 setup. And front shifting just isn't that much of a weak point. I haven't dropped a chain in a cyclocross race yet, not that I think it can't or won't happen, because we do see it happen at the pro level. But there's no particular reason you couldn't put a roller clutch rear derailleur on a bike with two chainrings, right?

Taking the long view, 1x systems have obvious advantages over 2x systems because they make shifting truly sequential and tend to be lighter weight, and if we can cram enough gears onto a rear wheel, they'll eventually displace most doubles. I'm just don't think it's quite time yet. But this should be a popular system with cyclocross racers and it'll probably work pretty darn well. I'm not sure I want to shell out the surprisingly hefty price for it ($800-$900 retail) quite yet, but I'm on a tighter budget than a lot of other racers; I probably won't even be upgrading to 10-speed for my CX bike this year. I'll keep an eye out for it this fall.

Barrettscv 03-11-14 12:13 PM

I like the crank and the matching Brifter/brake lever combo. I hope the price reflects the simplicity.

I ran a 44t and a 12-27 ten-speed cassette for two years. I really like being on the 44 and 16t combo at 20 mph and then shifting down five cogs or up as many as four cogs as needed. 30 mph was about a 104 rpm cadence in the 44 and 12t combo, very doable for several minutes.

For local rides near Flatsville Illinois, it was perfect. For hilly century rides, not so much.

Andy_K 03-11-14 12:35 PM

I've raced with a 1x10 setup for the last couple of years and I think I only dropped my chain once in about 50 races (though that one time it did get really jammed). I never felt limited in my gear choices, but then again I also race singlespeed, so 1x10 is a relative cornucopia of gear choices.

I went back to a 2x10 this winter when I installed Retroshift levers on my CX bike. I went 2x10 mostly so that I could use the bike for gravel grinder type rides, but seeing how flawlessly the front shifting works (friction in front is pretty much perfect) I think I'll keep it that way.

I've heard really good things about wide-narrow chain rings for chain retention.

Barrettscv 03-11-14 12:47 PM

I used a pair of Salsa Crossing Guards, never dropped a chain: Salsa Crossing Guard Chainring Guard > Components > Drivetrain > Bashguards | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

fietsbob 03-11-14 07:49 PM

Old stuff ..
Campag made chainring guards, part n. 753/1 & /2 a long time ago , for single ring setups.
144 bolt circle.. so 42 t and Up. I have a large one a 222mm as a substitute for the 52t,
which is in the middle of a Triple to wide step double ..


SRAM their 1st 1x offering had a 10-42t cassette for $400+.. just for the cassette.

Rumpled 03-12-14 09:04 PM

I've been considering going 1x10 to race as I rarely use my big ring when racing. I'm a fat slow back of the pack kinda guy.
Thinking I would put something like that Salsa ring on and then getting another rear wheel to make it a SS.
On a new bike SRAM's would probably be fine costwise; but switching a new bike would be too expensive IMHO.
I've ridden some 1x11 MTB's and it was fine. With a gripshift it was very nice. Though I did miss the ability to drop a chain ring when finding a steep hill around a sudden corner.

BluesDawg 03-13-14 10:32 AM

The full blown 1x11 SRAM setup is a great option if you can afford it. Good cheaper options exist, though, with some compromises. I am running a Race Face Narrow-Wide 30T ring with a 10 speed SRAM cassette modified with a One-Up 42T cog and it works well on my hardtail MTB with a Shimano XT Plus RD. The combination of the narrow-wide chainring and the clutch type RD effectively prevent chain drop without the need for a chain catcher device.

Since Shimano 10 speed RDs are not compatible with their road shifters, SRAM would be the better option for CX. I think a 38T or 40T Narrow-Wide chainring paired with an 11-36 cassette and X.9 Type 2 RD would make a great setup that would be very resistant to dropping a chain.

grolby 03-13-14 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grolby (Post 16568313)
But there's no particular reason you couldn't put a roller clutch rear derailleur on a bike with two chainrings, right?

Having read a bit more closely, it would appear that I am likely wrong about this.

grolby 03-13-14 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluesDawg (Post 16574282)
The full blown 1x11 SRAM setup is a great option if you can afford it. Good cheaper options exist, though, with some compromises. I am running a Race Face Narrow-Wide 30T ring with a 10 speed SRAM cassette modified with a One-Up 42T cog and it works well on my hardtail MTB with a Shimano XT Plus RD. The combination of the narrow-wide chainring and the clutch type RD effectively prevent chain drop without the need for a chain catcher device.

Since Shimano 10 speed RDs are not compatible with their road shifters, SRAM would be the better option for CX. I think a 38T or 40T Narrow-Wide chainring paired with an 11-36 cassette and X.9 Type 2 RD would make a great setup that would be very resistant to dropping a chain.

SRAM mountain derailleurs are not compatible with DoubleTap road shifters.

fietsbob 03-13-14 12:23 PM

since real CX racing is off this section now, it may be moot, if you need a low gear On CX courses

your running may be faster.


Midwest gravel grinding is a whole different deal .

Andy_K 03-13-14 02:40 PM

I plan to keep talking CX racing here to any who will listen.

"Excuse me, sir, have you considered opening your heart to the gospel of cyclocross?"

You can more than cover the low end with a 1xN setup. The question is whether you can also adequately cover the high end without introducing big gaps in the gearing. For me, a 38T chainring with 13-25 cassette worked. I used to use a 36T ring, but then I spun out the 36x13 gear at one race. SRAM's 11-speed 11-32 cassette with a 46T ring would cover my low end needs and give me five gears I had no use for. ;)

There are times when you meet a course with an extended hill, but if you can't make the climb in a 38x25 gear you're probably not going to finish well anyway. (See also: http://www.crossresults.com/race/3328#r17721)

fietsbob 03-13-14 02:59 PM

seems some advantage to the Wolf tooth chainrings , (not that I need one), seen in the shoppe.

alternating tooth thicknesses .. thicker tooth settles in the space between the outside links of the chain ..
IDK if that is on that crank .. may be a competing company..

reports are they dont tend to come off as easily as flat tooth profile single chainrings .

now that 11tooth 10speed cassettes are common inventory
I suppose what SRAM is doing is Packaging a Group of their stuff ..
In one display carton .

BluesDawg 03-13-14 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grolby (Post 16574525)
SRAM mountain derailleurs are not compatible with DoubleTap road shifters.

Not sure where you got that information, but it is incorrect. All SRAM 10 speed shifters work with all SRAM 10 speed rear derailleurs.

linus 03-13-14 11:11 PM

CX is not very popular around my area, but I see the trend of XC racers going to 1x10 setup with Raceface rings a lot. The only concern to me was that when the chain is on the biggest or smallest cog at the back, I can feel the chain grinding against the chainring. I wonder how that will affect the overall longevity of the chain and chainring. And also loosing gear range also means you might have to dismount when you can ride over.

I'm waiting for the new 2015 XTR 11sp. I wish the mechanical version is compatible with road shifters so that I can run 11-36T with the clutch derailleur. If that can be done, I'm down for 1x11 setup.

Werkin 03-13-14 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_K (Post 16568146)

I like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grolby (Post 16568313)
...there's no particular reason you couldn't put a roller clutch rear derailleur on a bike with two chainrings, right?...

Right, I've done it, reduces chain drop here too.


Quote:

Originally Posted by grolby (Post 16574525)
SRAM mountain derailleurs are not compatible with DoubleTap road shifters.

I'm using both clutch and non clutch MTB RDs with SRAM Force 10 speed shifters.



This is old news, but it's new news to me. Shimano's FD-CX70 top pull takes the worry out of front shifting while in a hurry.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-G...8/P1020534.JPGhttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-J...8/P1020580.JPG

Rumpled 03-13-14 11:40 PM

I just picked up the Shimano top pull for my new build.
I should have a report in a few months.

Kopsis 03-14-14 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linus (Post 16576313)
The only concern to me was that when the chain is on the biggest or smallest cog at the back, I can feel the chain grinding against the chainring. I wonder how that will affect the overall longevity of the chain and chainring. And also loosing gear range also means you might have to dismount when you can ride over.

The way CX eats drivetrains, I don't think chainline is going to make any difference in longevity :) However, if you're geared right you'll also spend very little time at the extreme ends of the cassette during a CX race.

As for loss of gear range, most folks will pick a gearing that only sacrifices the high end of the gear range. My 11-26 38/46 setup last season gave me 39.4 to 112.6 GI, but I never used anything over 80 (our course designers rarely include long fast sections). Next season with a 12-28 and 42 Wolftooth I will have about the same low-end with less high-end (but I will still have 14 GI more than I can currently use). With the 11-speed CX1 you could go with the 32t cassette and a bigger ring and get an even wider range.

For the really skilled riders who use a double to get smaller gaps in the ratios (and know how to pick the perfect combination for every spot on the course), CX1 (or any other 1x10 solution) might not be a good answer. For those of us who have barely enough brain function at the end of a race to remember which way to move the shift lever, the simplicity of 1xN is really attractive :)

MudvilleStomper 03-14-14 10:00 AM

A slightly off-topic question. I'm a single-speeder running a spacer kit on a shimano driver. I'm about to buy a new wheelset and the SRAM 1x11 is very intriguing to me. If I specify a SRAM XD driver for my new wheels, is it also possible to run a spacer kit and a single cog on it?

MudvilleStomper 04-10-14 07:59 AM

In case anyone was wondering, it turns out the new Force CX1 does not require the XD driver body that the mountain-oriented XX1 does. I guess it's because the CX1 cassette only goes down to an 11t cog while the XX1 and X01 go down to a 10t cog, necessitating a redesigned driver body.

So the usual shimano splined driver body works for both the CX1 cassette and the common everyday spacer kit for single speeders like myself.

fietsbob 04-10-14 11:07 AM

recalling 1st edition of Simon Burney's Cyclocross book he recommended the 6 speed worked better in the muddy world of CX
as the packed mud in the cluster wouldnt stop the bike as easily [more space between cogs ]


but now marketing has pushed the volume to 11. and the vacuum on your wallet is greater to Keep up with the frontrunners .


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