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  1. #1
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    Is there a Shimano "Shadow Plus" short cage MTB derailleur that's not "Dyna-Sys"

    Is there a Shimano "Shadow Plus" short cage MTB derailleur in a non-"Dyna-Sys" variety for use with 10 speed road shifters for cyclocross? I want a clutch type derailleur for a front single chainring?

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    Senior Member justin1138's Avatar
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    the 9 speed shadow derailleurs will work with 10 speed road shifters. not sure if there's a short cage option.
    where's my two dollars...

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    I want the clutch feature that Shimano introduced w/ 10 speed rear only it seems. I think that now I can buy a 10 sp Dyna-Sys rear der. and use it with my road shifters, as long as I route the cable in a wacky way that changes it back to the 1:2 cable pull that road STI's pull.

    Quote Originally Posted by justin1138 View Post
    the 9 speed shadow derailleurs will work with 10 speed road shifters. not sure if there's a short cage option.

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    I read that 9sp MTB shifters pull the same 2.1 ratio on the derailleur as 10 speed road shifters. I have had to find older 9 speed XT rear dérailleurs for my 10 speed CX bikes, but none have a clutch. I understand that on the Shimano MTB side everything switched to 1:1 ratio Dyna-Sys when they went to 10 speed.


    In order to use a Shimano road shifter (or under 10 speed MTB shifters), with modified Shimano 10 speed rear derailleur I need to modify the cable attachment point on your Shimano 10 speed rear derailleur so the activation ratio becomes 2:1. This then means you can use 9 speed Shimano shifters with the modified 10 speed derailleur. There's a thread on Hucking Kitty that sets out all you need to know about this mod: HK ? View topic - Modifying 10sp rear derailleur for 8/9sp shifters

  5. #5
    just keep riding BluesDawg's Avatar
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    To get 10 speed road shifter compliance AND a clutch type rear derailleur (edit -without making modifications), you'll have to change everything to SRAM 10 speed. Shimano 9 speed rear derailleurs work fine with Shimano 10 speed road shifters, but no clutch.
    Last edited by BluesDawg; 09-14-14 at 08:38 AM.
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    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    IMHO, there really is no advantage to a short cage over a medium cage other than a few grams of weight and maybe a tiny bit of extension that might make the RD a teeny bit more likely to be damaged in a tip-over. But the new MTB RD's are pretty tucked out of the way even compared to SS road derailleurs.

    Shifting performance might be theoretically better but so small that even measuring it would be impossible. Keeping your B-tension optimized will make a lot more difference in shifting IMHO. Unless you are running a non-compact front double or a single you probably would be better off with the GS cage anyhow. Many set-ups are really pushing the chain-wrap equations, add some mud and crud and dangerous things could very will happen. More chain-wrap = good and with the modern clutched MTB cages all the other chain-floppy issues of medium/long cages go away anyhow.
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    Is there a way to build what you need Frankenstein style?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amesja View Post
    IMHO, there really is no advantage to a short cage over a medium cage other than a few grams of weight and maybe a tiny bit of extension that might make the RD a teeny bit more likely to be damaged in a tip-over. But the new MTB RD's are pretty tucked out of the way even compared to SS road derailleurs.

    Shifting performance might be theoretically better but so small that even measuring it would be impossible. Keeping your B-tension optimized will make a lot more difference in shifting IMHO. Unless you are running a non-compact front double or a single you probably would be better off with the GS cage anyhow. Many set-ups are really pushing the chain-wrap equations, add some mud and crud and dangerous things could very will happen. More chain-wrap = good and with the modern clutched MTB cages all the other chain-floppy issues of medium/long cages go away anyhow.
    Good info, but the OP does say single front ring, so short cage may be best,
    I'm in the same boat, mega 9 XT rear mech with 105 5700 shifters, works great byt I realy want a shadow+ mech for the clutch.
    on the road my mostercross is fine, but on the canal tow path the chain tension is not quite enough, even with the B screw prety darn tight and the chain is as short as I dare go for the 44T front 34T rear highest gear.
    Shimano don't want people dicking with their kit... they want to sell complete bikes kitted out by OEM's with their stuff or groupo's. I'd say their designers actually thought about cutting off interchangability on purpose.
    I'm in construction machinery design and we do that a lot.
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    Another thought,
    The 'travel agent' from problem solvers, what is the ratio that it changes the cable pull? If it was 2:1 then I may have found a use for the couple I have in a box from a previous road lever/V brake build.
    Love my bikes, all N+1 of them.

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    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    Shimano doesn't make bikes. They make components. What advantage to "not wanting people dicking with their equipment" is there? They technically would want people using their existing components in every way possible that makes them money (i.e. folks buying it to put on their builds)

    The hard fact is that that the vast majority of large builders (The large MTB manufacturing brands) are not building 1xN systems right now. Most production mountain bikes and are triples or compact doubles and short-cage derailleur applications off-road are just not that popular at the moment. There just isn't money catering to tiny markets at first. Shimano might eventually get around to eventually making a fringe product for a fringe market (perhaps for the downhill segment, or CX) but until then if you want one of these new clutch-systems you are going to have to buy the higher-end MTB shadow derailleurs they come on. Right now those are all long-cage. Maybe, probably, it will begin to trickle down to other product lines. When it gets to Acera...
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    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    Also, one thing you are going to lose with a clutch-type derailleur is road-like compliance with that snappy Shimano SS road cage light shifting feel, especially going up the cassette. If one is worried about the difference in snappy shifting between an SS and GS cage they might be disappointed by how the clutch system shifts regardless of whether it is on a long or possible future short-cage. Not only is the cage much heavier due to the added weight of the clutch and associated hardware to switch it on and off when the wheel is dropped, but its function is to resist to a certain degree chain extension, which is necessary for the changing of the gears too.
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  12. #12
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    It looks good. The specs say:
    "Top Gear Teeth – 28"
    Has anyone tried it with a 11-32 cassette? This is for a ghetto 1x10 Shimano setup.


    I know it is not clutch style, but what about the Gevenalle?
    Derailleurs - Gevenalle
    They have supposedly increased the spring tension in the RD, making it more "CX specific"...


    It might be worth a shot.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amesja View Post
    Also, one thing you are going to lose with a clutch-type derailleur is road-like compliance with that snappy Shimano SS road cage light shifting feel, especially going up the cassette. If one is worried about the difference in snappy shifting between an SS and GS cage they might be disappointed by how the clutch system shifts regardless of whether it is on a long or possible future short-cage. Not only is the cage much heavier due to the added weight of the clutch and associated hardware to switch it on and off when the wheel is dropped, but its function is to resist to a certain degree chain extension, which is necessary for the changing of the gears too.
    this is absolutely true.
    i'm personally not bothered about a short cage, so I plan to buy a Deore shadow+ mech and after finding out that the problem solver is indeed 2:1 ratio, will be rigging up the parts to test it out on my bike.
    stiffer shifts, no problem. I'm looking forward to it as I feel the current system is too light anyway.
    If the sandwich chain guard and shadow+ keep the chain on in the bumpy single track and bridleways then I will be ded chuffed.
    Love my bikes, all N+1 of them.

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