bovine

So, ever since I got a cargo bike and have been toting my three sons around on it, my youngest has been absolutely avid about cycling. He had a 12" big box bike that he never used but has now been using daily. His 4th birthday is coming up and he wants a new bike. I've heard amazing things about Islabikes Cnoc (specifically the 16"), but am having trouble justifying the cost to myself, let alone to my wife. I'm kicking myself for not getting one for my oldest and just passing it down the line. ~$300 would be easy to rationalize if it was used for three different kids.

I may bite the bullet and get it anyway, but wanted to ask if there's anything remotely competitive in the market that's a bit more reasonably priced. Mainly, I'm looking for a) a light bike that will be agile enough to not turn him off cycling; and b) something that can grow with him a bit, since he is the youngest and I'll either be giving the bike to friends after he outgrows it or trying to Craigslist it. Is there anything approaching the Cnoc, but a tier down in price, or is it - as it seems from reviews I've read - truly in a class of its own?

mhifoe

I have a Rothan and a Cnoc 16. Both of these are now 50% more expensive than when I bought them, which makes it hard to justify the cost, especially for 1 child.

Take a look at the specialized Hotrock range. My brother has a specialized hotwalk balance bikes for his boys which is very nice.

bovine

Thanks, @mhifoe. Yeah, I was looking at the Hotrocks. I'll likely just go in to the LBS and ask around about them. And, yeah, that price is hard to justify on one. I should probably start buying the good ones from Islabikes in the oldest size so I can pass them down and get a good 5 or 6 years of use out of them.

mel2012

If you're willing to order sight-unseen, take a look at the Dawes Blowfish: Dawes Blowfish Boys - 16" Bike | Chain Reaction Cycles It's 16.5 lbs, significantly lighter than a Hot Rock or most other 16" bikes and it has no coaster brake. Based on reviews from British web-sites, it seems to be a well-liked and less expensive alternative to Isla.

mel2012

The 16" Hot Rock isn't a bad bike--that's what my daughter was on before she moved to the 20" Islabike--and if you have an option to get one used for under $100, I might go for it--since he'll probably only be on it for a year or two. They're not worth $240 new though.

mel2012

You might also look at the Tykesbykes 16" bike. It appears they are on a super (50% off) sale, so the bike would be $105 including shipping:
https://www.tykesbykes.com/store/bic...16-pedal-bike/

It has a front handbrake, which I think it nice and is relatively lightweight ~18 lbs. The bike gets a decent review from twowheelingtots.com

However, my cautionary comment would be that it does have a very high standover and minimum seat height, so you'd want to check your son's inseam before buying (the minimum inseam is higher on the TykesByke than it is on our 20" Islabike). At almost 5, my son would barely clear the top bar on this and probably wouldn't be able to put a foot on the ground while on the seat. But your son may be taller. . .

bovine

Really appreciate all the responses, @mel2012. These are all great options. He's routinely in the 90-95% for height, but I guess I'll need to check his inseam to make sure.

Again, great info. Thanks!

Rollfast

I was at my LBS the other day and somebody brought a K2 in that he got for $10 and plans to hand it down to his younger child. I think it needed all of a new seat, tire and tube and a little basic work. He was also looking at a Trek frame hanging on the wall. I found it a bit nicer than the Tykebike.

While my first bike was new I fondly recall the ones my mother put together from parts at a bicycle junkyard, even the Huffys!

CliffordK

What bikes do you have?

You won't ruin the kid by going cheap. Even tuning up a $5 thrift store special. There is no reason for a kid to expect all bikes to be new.

However, consider a tandem option, or tag-a-long tandem, or convertible tandem/solo bike.

Do you ride a road bike? Off road?

Find a 24" road bike for the kids age 8 to 11. Maybe a 20" road bike for age 6 to 8, but that may not be needed either as the 20" BMX bikes (1 or 5 speed) are good.

bovine

I only ride the cargo bike, since I'm either commuting w/ or w/o the kids, or riding them around most of the time. Maybe I'll dust off the cross bike when they get old enough to ride along at speed on the road. And, yeah, I'm definitely trawling craigslist for used bikes. There's just nothing there that doesn't weigh something comparable to a decent adult road bike.

CliffordK

I realize many kids bikes are heavy.

It was a bit of a surprise a few years ago when I bought a BMX style of bike for my cousin's daughter, then she borrowed an old stingray that was MUCH LIGHTER. So, perhaps look at 30 yr old kids bikes.

Even the Fuji Ace 24 is about 20 lbs.

However, your kid will be fine riding a stock 16" or 18" bike.

bovine

Yeah, I can appreciate that on an intellectual level. My tendency to go with high quality stuff and parental guilt are just warring with rationality. But, yeah, it makes less sense to buy top notch stuff when it's going to be used for 2 years max as opposed to a couple of decades.

CliffordK

Are the older kids broken due to having the wrong toddler bikes?

bovine

Yeah. But we try to downplay it so they don't get too down on themselves.

fietsbob

Trek's Kids Bikes are able to hold up thru several children in the hand-Me-Down Bike situation..

mel2012

The Trek Jet and Mystic kids bikes are awful. They weigh a ton and they have terrible geometry--super high riser bars that lead to a high center of gravity and twitchy handling, plus a high bottom bracket that leads to sub-optimal pedal stroke (if the seat is adjusted so that kids can put a foot down, which is recommended for early riders, their knees are in their chest on the upstroke). I am curious about the relatively new Superfly 16. It looks like Trek's effort to compete with Islabike and Cleary Bikes. Too bad they don't list the weigh online. .

caloso

My kids' first few bikes were from Target. I pulled the BBs and hubs to grease and adjust and they rode much better. Boy, they were heavy, but fine for their purpose.

mel2012

One more you might want to look at would be the ByK E-350. This is an Australian brand that recently started importing to the U.S. through CycleForce. They offer an 18" single-speed, which would give you more longevity than a 16", for $260 including free shipping. The bike is 17.5 lbs and has front and rear handbrakes. ByK | E-350 Blue 18 inch Kids Bicycle Only thing I don't like about is the coaster brake.

fietsbob

Custom frame builders Make Bikes for their children.

mstateglfr 

craigslist a Specialized HotRock.

I loathe the company, but bought one for my youngest when she was about 4.5yo. 16" wheels fit her fine- she is in the 60th% for height. She rocks training wheels on it still as we use her older 12" bike as a balance bike for her to practice on from time to time.
$50 for a used one is a steal.

If you buy a used HotRock, you will have a high quality bike for him and can allocate the other $ towards a true balance bike which will get him riding without trainers a lot faster.


For what its worth, I wouldn't have my kid go near a bike that doesn't have a coaster brake, much less ride it, when she is 4. Hell when she is 5 even. Coasters exist for a very good reason- they are the easiest for new riders to use and lock the wheel the fastest.

mel2012

My son has been safely riding a bike without a coaster brake since his 4th Birthday, after starting on a 12" Hotrock with a coaster brake, which frustrated him. I disagree that coaster brakes are easier, better, or safer and I've made my opinion known to the CPSC, which continues to impose their ridiculous coaster brake standard on so-called "sidewalk bikes". The following is the comment I submitted to them:

(a) Coaster brakes make it difficult to properly position the pedals and accelerate from a stop. This is particularly hazardous at intersections, where a variety of dangerous situations can result: (i) the child stands up to accelerate across the intersection and accidentally engages the brake instead, leading to a mid-intersection fall; (ii) the child can't gain sufficient momentum to balance and has a slow-speed fall mid-intersection; (ii) cars see the slow-speed wobbly start and assume they have time to cross the intersection before my child, potentially leading to a collision.

(b) The first instinct of many children riding bikes who are accelerating beyond control is to put their feet down to stop. If the bike is a equipped with only a coaster-brake, the child is left with no effective brake unless he or she can re-mount their feet on the rapidly-spinning wheels and effectively apply backward pressure. While coaster brakes are low-maintenance, there is nothing intuitive about pedaling backward, especially for children who have just learned how pedal forward.

(c) Another hazard of the inability to position the pedals is that the push start to accelerate the bike leads to abrasions and bruises on the lower leg as the child tries to push the pedals into a position that will allow for an effective pedal stroke and acceleration rather than engaging the brake.

(d) The stopping distances for a coaster brake are far longer than a properly-adjusted hand-brake. Given the documented inability of children to correctly perceive distances and approaching danger, it seems advisable to equip children's bicycles with a braking mechanism that is capable of quickly bringing the bicycle to a stop.

bovine

Went in to the LBS and I've got to agree on that point. The Jet was just loaded down with so much extraneous crap and, yes, the geometry seemed terrible compared to even the Hotrock. The bars, as you said, were absolutely monstrous. The CoG looked like it must have been substantially higher than that of the Hotrock. I dismissed it as an option almost instantly.

The LBS says they regularly get Hotrocks back from customers when they're trading up, and the boy's birthday is in a month and a half, so I'll likely just go in there every week or so to see what they have on offer and browse craigslist for them as well.

Thanks for all of the suggestions. The Tykebyke standover was ~2" greater than his inseam and the Byk had a recommended max height of about 2" greater than his and though I know that's not a hard limit, I didn't want to get something that he would almost immediately grow out of.

mstateglfr 

In your example, perhaps a coaster brake isnt whats best. Yours is clearly the exception to the norm. About a month ago I was participated in our local bike collective’s bike giveaway at an elementary school. Kids rode thru a course where they demonstrated safety and awareness, and then they got a helmet, lock, and a bike for free. There were a few hundred kids who were 5-13 and it was eye-opening to see how many didn’t know how to ride safely, if at all. Your kid riding without a coaster right when they turn 4 is well ahead of the average.


Coasters are simply easier to control. You claim they are counterintuitive because you must pedal backwards, but that isnt accurate. You don’t pedal backwards, you simply push back. Forward to move forward and back to stop. That’s pretty easy to both explain and learn. Being able to both stop and go using one’s feet is quite intuitive and simple.

Hand brakes are very safe, but they are often of low quality on kids bikes that are for 6yo and under, unless they are purchased at a bike shop. How many kids’ first or even second bikes are purchased at bike shops?- hint- its incredibly small. Troll thru craigslist sometime to see the hundreds of 12 and 16” wheeled barbie/princess/superhero bikes for sale compared to the trek/specialized/bikeshop brands. Its probably 15 to 1 not just in my area, but in major cities around where I live(I am active on those craigslists too). Cheap bikes have cheap hand brakes and cheap calipers.
Also, I have noticed that small hands have a very difficult time engaging hand brakes, even when they are sized for kids.

I havent seen kids have a difficult time starting with coaster brakes. If you mean they have a tough time because they cant backspin their crank so it can be pushed down to start, I guess that can happen, but if they brake with a coaster, then one of the two pedals will be forward and about parallel with the ground, so that can be then used to push down and start riding. It doesn’t seem like an issue from what ive seen.

As for kids taking their feet off the pedals if they are out of control- that is something that should be learned while kids are still using training wheels or practicing in a safe location. If a kid is doing that, they simply shouldn’t be riding where there is potential for injury(cars, pedestrians, etc)

How much farther does a coaster brake bike travel vs a caliper brake bike when a 4yo is riding it? You mention the stopping distance is far longer. My kid stops in a foot or two when just riding around and if going fast, stops in a few feet. How much shorter would a hand brake be?...assuming she had the hand strength to fully engage the brake and the caliper wasn’t junk(as it is in basically all big box bikes which dominate the youth market)?




Your kid is an exception to the norm. Be happy about it and go ride instead of demanding bikes be less safe for the majority of kids.

CliffordK

Kids seem to pick up the coaster brake concept very quickly. Perhaps that is an advantage of training wheels. Learn the concept of the bike before learning the balance.

Even if they put their feet down... they can skid on their heals... quite effectively, I must say.

Some bikes will have both coaster and hand brakes which is fine.

However, I agree, kids hands are small and weak. They get much more braking power with the coasters.

mel2012

Your previous comment implied that hand brakes on small bikes are inherently dangerous, which was provided in direct response to my suggestions regarding several well-made and high-end children's bikes that come with great hand brakes and no coaster brakes.

My kid is the exception to the norm because I went out of my way to find a bike that to find a bike manufacturer that managed to find its way around the CPSC's rules--by artificially raising the maximum seat height to take it out of the "sidewalk bike" category. Woom Bikes, which also has a great track record of selling small bikes in Europe with hand brakes only, is having to go through the ridiculous exercise of selling parents a separate "freewheel kit." Islabikes sold in Europe have no coaster brakes, even on the smallest 14" model.

The CPSC's "one size fits all" regulations, which haven't changed since the 1970s, don't allow manufacturers to offer small pedal bikes without coaster brakes, regardless of the quality of the hand brakes. My suggestion to them was merely that they offer a separate set of hand brake standards for kids bikes as an alternative to the coaster brake (similar to those applied to adult bikes, which look at the force required to actuate the brake, etc).

Many, many balance bikes come with hand brakes and kids that use those bikes are very familiar with their operation by the time they transition to a pedal bike. For them, a coaster brake is an unnecessary step backwards.