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  1. #1
    N_C
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    Going to build a new tail box.

    I am going to build a new tail box for my Vision R40 SWB. This one will cover the entore rear wheel & be longer then one I built a few years ago but have not used for a while now. I will be using the rear rack as the frame & may design the box to accomidate the saddle bags I use when I commute with a hinged trunk lid that I can open to get access to the bags. The material for the tail box will be corroplast. The hinge will more then likley be a "piano hinge". I'll provide pics of the build as I work on the project.

    Has anyone else built a tail box for their 'bent?

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    N C,

    Never Never built one but very interested in your progress.

    I would like to do one for my Rocket.

    Any specifics would be greatly appreciated.
    Gary

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    I am completely mechanically inept. I very very much long for a tailbox for my M5 when I get it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    Using coroplast, sure.

    http://www.biketcba.org/TRICORR/work...orkshop2a.html

    Also, I did a crude one for my Baron, but it really didn't help much.


  5. #5
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
    Using coroplast, sure.

    http://www.biketcba.org/TRICORR/work...orkshop2a.html

    Also, I did a crude one for my Baron, but it really didn't help much.

    You ever hear of a gentleman by the name of Warren Beauchamp? He operates a web site called: http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/default.asp

    A great resource of recumbent information & projects. He helped me, via email with my first tail box. I will use that as a model for my second one.

    My first one actually helped, I hope the second one is an improvment over the second.

    How did you fasten the corroplast to your seat frame? On my first one I used velcro so I could remove the box. But over time it would come off of the seat frame & left a sticky mess that I had to clean off then replace the velcro. I also had to cover the edge of the corroplast with duct tape because the edge was sharp & caused cuts on the back of my upper arm. Again causing a sticky mess when I would remove it.

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    If you have a harshell seat, you can place attachment tabs under the seat pad, instead of on the back of the seat itself. This will have a few benefits. First of all, you won't see the velcro/buckles/etc when the tailbox isn't attached. Instead of pulling on the velcro, the tailbox will pull on the seat - the velcro is just there to make sure it doesn't shift around. Plus, you own body weight will help keep the tailbox fastened securely, since you'll be leaning on the tabs under the seatpad.
    www.rebel-cycles.com

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    Recumbent Ninja
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    I have pored over the instructions to the wisil site a hundred times, and I still can't figure out what keeps it from falling off and how you can carry anything without building the rack around a aluminum rack, and etc.....

  8. #8
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    I have pored over the instructions to the wisil site a hundred times, and I still can't figure out what keeps it from falling off and how you can carry anything without building the rack around a aluminum rack, and etc.....
    been a while since I looked at the insturctions but I think for the larger size parts they used aluminum strips as a frame work. The also used clamps, pop rivets & cable ties to fasten the material together or the the frame or to a pvc tubing then to the corroplast.

    Here is the link to the practical fairing project. It has a material list.

    http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisi...l/hpvpfair.htm
    Last edited by N_C; 03-07-07 at 01:49 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    Yes, I've met Warren. The tailbox on his site looks pretty good too.

    On my lowracer, I simply drilled a few holes in the hardshell and used some corner brackets. Screws through the seat, pop rivets into the coroplast. That would be sacrilege for a carbon hardshell, but at the time I just had a cheapie fiberglass one. I had a rack at the time, but it was only used for a trunk bag, not for support. Nowadays, I use a Carbon Fastback underseat system to carry stuff I don't want in my pockets.

    On my V-Rex (Pictured in the first link with the coroplast front fairing,) I bolted the tailbox to the rack.

  10. #10
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
    Yes, I've met Warren. The tailbox on his site looks pretty good too.

    On my lowracer, I simply drilled a few holes in the hardshell and used some corner brackets. Screws through the seat, pop rivets into the coroplast. That would be sacrilege for a carbon hardshell, but at the time I just had a cheapie fiberglass one. I had a rack at the time, but it was only used for a trunk bag, not for support. Nowadays, I use a Carbon Fastback underseat system to carry stuff I don't want in my pockets.

    On my V-Rex (Pictured in the first link with the coroplast front fairing,) I bolted the tailbox to the rack.
    I've never met Warren personally but he seems like a nice guy, easy to talk to & helpful via email.

    My bike is a Vision R40. The seat is aluminum frame covered with a canvas/mesh seat cover. The cover completely surrounds the sides of the seat frame. I could drill holes into the frame to bolt the corroplast to it but I would rather not because I am concerned it would weaken the frame & the fabric for the seat cover.

    I might just stick with the velcro & duct tape method, despite having to clean the adhesive mess up. Acetone works great & we have a new front load washer to wash the seat cover, we didn't before so it wasn't a good option.

  11. #11
    Senior Member geebee's Avatar
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    Hose clamps with old tube rubber under them to stop scratching, use them to attach plastic conduit T joints with the the pipe cut in half to fit on the frame, attach more conduit to hold/frame the tail box.
    Basically like the photo only smaller
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  12. #12
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    You don't have to attach the tailbox to the seat. If you do, you can use the method that RANS owners use for getting at the braze-ons on their seat frames - melt holes in the fabric with a soldering iron. Two or three holes on each side would probably be enough to attach the box using zip ties, and melted holes won't fray or spread.

    The other option is to attach the box securely to the rear of the bike. Along the same lines as Geebee, you can make aluminum frame pieces. Aluminum would be lighter, stiffer, and less susceptible to breaking in cold weather. For stability, you probably will want two mounts on each chainstay. You can see how I fashioned mine here, in my fairing workshop pages. You'll want the frame pieces on the inside of the tailbox, of course. Attach the coroplast to the frame with pop-rivets.

    The good thing about Warren's design is that the bottom of the box isn't left open. I think this is why my quick-and-dirty box on my Baron didn't work so well - it was completely open on the bottom. Be sure you close off the leading edge, too, if it's not covered by your body. Otherwise it'll act as an air scoop!

  13. #13
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
    You don't have to attach the tailbox to the seat. If you do, you can use the method that RANS owners use for getting at the braze-ons on their seat frames - melt holes in the fabric with a soldering iron. Two or three holes on each side would probably be enough to attach the box using zip ties, and melted holes won't fray or spread.

    The other option is to attach the box securely to the rear of the bike. Along the same lines as Geebee, you can make aluminum frame pieces. Aluminum would be lighter, stiffer, and less susceptible to breaking in cold weather. For stability, you probably will want two mounts on each chainstay. You can see how I fashioned mine here, in my fairing workshop pages. You'll want the frame pieces on the inside of the tailbox, of course. Attach the coroplast to the frame with pop-rivets.

    The good thing about Warren's design is that the bottom of the box isn't left open. I think this is why my quick-and-dirty box on my Baron didn't work so well - it was completely open on the bottom. Be sure you close off the leading edge, too, if it's not covered by your body. Otherwise it'll act as an air scoop!
    The way my first tail box was attached was to the chain stays. It went straight down, the there was a fold in toward the stays where I cut small holes to attach with zip ties. This prvented it from being a air scoop as advised by Warren. It angled up toward the point at the back & the point was created with a "piano hinge". The top was flat & was held on with velcro attached to the back of the seat cover with a fold in it to act as a trunk that could open & shut. It was seperate from the box & with the edges covered in green duct tape to give it some weight so it would stay shut & add a little color to it.

    My new one will attach to the chain stays like the first one did but the angle up toward the point at the back will start further behind the bike so more of the rear wheel is covered. The top will taller, I am hoping as tall as my head & will probably taper down toward the point at the back. The lid will be hinged on one of the sides, instead of attached with velcro & as a seperate piece.

    Because I want to cover more of the rear wheel I will need to make the box taller on the sides & longer toward the rear. I will have to decide if I want it to bend up at what ever angle it will be to the chain stays or with one 90 degree fold or bend in toward the bike, then one at 90 degrees up to the stays with 2 folds. I am wondering if I have it at one bend angled up toward the stays if it will act as an air trap, where with 2 90 degree bends & it being flat on the bottom the air will flow right over it toward the back. What would you recommend?

    I think what I will do on the seat end of it is have it go across the back in front of my Camel Bak pack with a cut out to go around the rack. Below the seat it will be tapered back so it is not a flat surface for wind to hit against. Behind the seat it is not a big deal because I am on the seat & the seat is flat anyway.

    At the moment I am not going to build a front fairing, just the tail box.
    Last edited by N_C; 03-08-07 at 07:39 AM.

  14. #14
    N_C
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    I figured up the design & some calculations for the new tail box. As a result there has been a change of plans. The new tail box is going to be similar to this one:
    http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisi...udatailbox.htm

    But because I have a Vision with space under the seat I will form the fairing to come to a point to force the air around the box.

    Starting at 8" above ground level, this is to allow room for me to fill the tire with air, the sides of the box will be 45" tall. The total lenght will be 36". This is from where the chain stays meet the frame under the seat to behind the rear wheel.

    When I am building it I will need to have the Camel Bak & the seat bag on the bike to take into account how much space they take up & how to form or fit the box around them. When all is said & done they will be "in" the box.

    It should take only two 4' x 8' sheets of coroplast to build this.

    The top or lid will be rounded & tapered down to the back point of the box. Kind of like a fast back style race car.

  15. #15
    N_C
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    Having a hard time locating where to purchase corrugated plastic. The place I got it from last time is no longer in business. What would you recommend?

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    Senior Member blknwhtfoto's Avatar
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    Most art supply places around here have it. Also, I know the architecture students at the UO use a ton of it. Maybe a University/College around you might be a source? Online?

  17. #17
    Senior Member geebee's Avatar
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    Signwriter suppler's or the cheapest option by far where I live is look up plastic suppliers in your area.
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    Quote Originally Posted by geebee
    Signwriter suppler's or the cheapest option by far where I live is look up plastic suppliers in your area.
    Yup, of the three sign shops I called in my city, all of them could supply coroplast - usually in at least four colours.
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  19. #19
    N_C
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    Thanks. I'll call the sign companies on Monday. We have 3 or 4 of them in town.

  20. #20
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    The MAJOR disadvantage to Coroplast(tm) is its lack of availability to the average person. If you can find a plastics supplier, you can get it for as little as US$7.20 per 4x8 sheet, but if you have to go through sign shops, they will often charge $20+ for a 2x4 sheet, and not be willing to order colors. They are worried that they would be setting up a competitor. The problem with the wholesalers is that they will often require a minimum order of $100 or more.

    Every year, my Coroplast pages generate a couple of requests for price quotes, from people who think I am selling the stuff. I have problems getting it too! If you're in the US, try contacting GE Polymershapes. If they have a warehouse nearby, you may be able to sweet talk someone into selling a few sheets at a time. I recommend getting 2 or 3 times as much as you think you'll need, just for future projects. (Which will still be under the 'minimum order' level.)

  21. #21
    N_C
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    Per BP's advice, thanks BP, I am only going to go as low as the bottom of the seat, not cover the rear wheel at all with the tail box. To get the max. advantage how far back should I extend the taper of the box? How far beyond the rear wheel? Should it be right even with the "end" of the tire, or beyond that?

    The box is going to be constructed with a total of 4 coroplast pieces. 2 sides which will come to a tapered point in the rear. A top that will be rounded or contoured no higher then my head with the helmet on. The bottom which will be designed to sit over & on the rear rack & fasten to the sides. WHen it is done it will be 1 piece made from the 4. The top or lid will be hinged to one of the sides. On the other it will be secured with velcro.

    Another advantage to taking the box as low as the seat is I can put the bike in the indoor trainer & use it as a third hand to hold the bike while I figure out the measurments, etc.


    I might make a inexpensive wheel disc for the rear wheel. BP advised I use for sale sign material for that. I'll have to see if I can find some large enough in my area when I do this, but first is the tail box.

  22. #22
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    Warren's got it about right for the length, if you look at the after-seat dimensions, IMHO. I think I've heard a 6 degree taper figure, which makes for a pretty long box. Or you can fudge and get slightly less benefit but you're not piloting an ocean liner.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
    Warren's got it about right for the length, if you look at the after-seat dimensions, IMHO. I think I've heard a 6 degree taper figure, which makes for a pretty long box. Or you can fudge and get slightly less benefit but you're not piloting an ocean liner.
    I thought it was 16 degrees? Maybe I'm mistaken, though.

    Actually, here's an excellent site with some information that is sure to be of use to you:

    http://www.recumbents.com/WISIL/demma/aero_review.htm
    www.rebel-cycles.com

    The official Canadian dealer of TW-Bents recumbent bicycles!

  24. #24
    N_C
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
    Warren's got it about right for the length, if you look at the after-seat dimensions, IMHO. I think I've heard a 6 degree taper figure, which makes for a pretty long box. Or you can fudge and get slightly less benefit but you're not piloting an ocean liner.
    On which project of his?

    This one: http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisi...udatailbox.htm

    This one, tail box only: http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisi...l/hpvpfair.htm

    Or this one: http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisi...reamliners.htm

  25. #25
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    The first one of the three links you provided is the one I was referring to - the tailbox only. As you can see, it makes for a pretty long hunk of plastic sticking out the back of the bike, so shortening it becomes a compromise between aerodynamics and having a reasonable length vehicle. The old fully-faired P-38, or maybe it was an R-40, shows about as short as you could possibly go.

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