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  1. #1
    eternalvoyage
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    Front wheel drive

    Shorter and more easily managed chains, weight savings... yet they do not seem to be very popular (at least not yet), and there do not seem to be many models.

    Which are the better ones?

    Are there reasons not to go with front wheel drive?

    Any other comments on these bikes?


    ***
    http://www.cruzbike.com/kit/KimsCruzbikeRIMG0010.jpg is one site

    or http://www.cruzbike.com/
    Last edited by Niles H.; 04-30-07 at 05:22 PM. Reason: minor changes and corrections

  2. #2
    cyclopath vik's Avatar
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    Checkout the Cobrabikes Royale.
    safe riding - Vik
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  3. #3
    eternalvoyage
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    Quote Originally Posted by vik
    Checkout the Cobrabikes Royale.
    Thanks for the link. Interesting looking bikes.

    Here are some video clips of the Cruzbike in action: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=cruzbike

  4. #4
    Senior Member defjack's Avatar
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    I am riding a Cruzbike Downtube folder and have a Silvio on order so I really like the Cruzbike FWD. Jack

  5. #5
    Senior Member ken cummings's Avatar
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    On some of the hills around here there would be a problem with loss of traction going up as weight comes off of the front wheel. I have ridden a front-wheel drive tadpole trike with power transmission to both front wheels thru universal joints. Front wheel steering too. My wife had a prototype standard trike with front wheel drive and rear wheel steering. Easy to roll over.
    This space open

  6. #6
    Senior Member geebee's Avatar
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    If you have 20%+ hills you WILL have traction issues in the dry at around 25% you will stop, and forget about dirt much more than half that.
    With the above proiviso they are easy to build (especially a trike) and perform well, If you are strong wheel spin off the line is pretty easy as well.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    I think that of the two types of FWD, the most common is the fixed bottom bracket like the Cobrabikes or Zox uses. They don't turn as well at low speeds, but they don't have the pedal steer issues at higher speeds. Like the trike cornering issue, I'm not sure you can put a number on where FWD will start losing traction. It will depend on the weight distribution of the particular bike/rider combination.

  8. #8
    Bendigo Youth Racing Wheelchairman's Avatar
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    We (BYR) have built a FWD tabpole for research purposes. They understeer so bad it's not worth trying to make a turn . But just like a car, you can buy what you could basically call an LSD and this fixes the understeering issues for the most part. We found that there were no weight savings- in fact, in order to keep the cluster mount as rigid as it would be on a wheel jammed securly into some beefy dropouts, we had to add a $hitload of weight . Then you add the solid aluminium LSD, and it all adds up. The 1-2 lengths of chain you save by going FWD don't nessacerly mean you will save weight over a RWD tadpole
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  9. #9
    Senior Member geebee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
    I think that of the two types of FWD, the most common is the fixed bottom bracket like the Cobrabikes or Zox uses. They don't turn as well at low speeds, but they don't have the pedal steer issues at higher speeds. Like the trike cornering issue, I'm not sure you can put a number on where FWD will start losing traction. It will depend on the weight distribution of the particular bike/rider combination.
    My FWD being a SWB delta trike allowed me to experiment pretty much with shifting weight to the front etc.
    Unless you are going to bias weight heavily toward the front wheel (well over 50%) the figures will be in the ball park. IMHO
    Last edited by geebee; 05-01-07 at 07:10 AM.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member geebee's Avatar
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    Wheelchairman, Have you guys ever tried a delta trike?
    Greenspeed GLR trike
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  11. #11
    Recumbent Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by geebee
    If you have 20%+ hills you WILL have traction issues in the dry at around 25% you will stop, and forget about dirt much more than half that.
    With the above proiviso they are easy to build (especially a trike) and perform well, If you are strong wheel spin off the line is pretty easy as well.
    Who is going up 20-25% grades, though? I think I'd stop long before then!

    I've looked at cobrabikes for a long time, and considered buying one. I like the idea of a fwd lowracer, but the cobrabikes really aren't meant for anything but the track, and I like fast club and pay rides. CB just isn't comfortable for those times.

  12. #12
    Senior Member geebee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aikigreg
    Who is going up 20-25% grades, though? I think I'd stop long before then!

    I've looked at cobrabikes for a long time, and considered buying one. I like the idea of a fwd lowracer, but the cobrabikes really aren't meant for anything but the track, and I like fast club and pay rides. CB just isn't comfortable for those times.
    I do every time I ride , if I didn't I would have to drive my bikes somewhere flatter to ride everyday.
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  13. #13
    Recumbent Ninja
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    Quote Originally Posted by geebee
    I do every time I ride , if I didn't I would have to drive my bikes somewhere flatter to ride everyday.
    Ouch. And here I thought Australia was all flat desert

  14. #14
    Bendigo Youth Racing Wheelchairman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geebee
    Wheelchairman, Have you guys ever tried a delta trike?
    Yes. I rode the Greenspeed Frog when it was a prototype (the only one in the world at the time). It was setup @ the breakthrough last year. I found it quite enjoyable, for what it was. It was slow....but going slow felt like the right thing . We'll probably never go near delta @ BYR. Some run at the AIPP, and they're terribly slow. Maybe when we're all old men it might seem more attractive
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken cummings
    On some of the hills around here there would be a problem with loss of traction going up as weight comes off of the front wheel. I have ridden a front-wheel drive tadpole trike with power transmission to both front wheels thru universal joints. Front wheel steering too. My wife had a prototype standard trike with front wheel drive and rear wheel steering. Easy to roll over.
    please, tell us more about these cycles

  16. #16
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by defjack
    I am riding a Cruzbike Downtube folder and have a Silvio on order so I really like the Cruzbike FWD. Jack
    I was wondering if someone could attach a front derailluer with a tripple chain ring on the Curzbike?

  17. #17
    Senior Member defjack's Avatar
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    A front derailer fits on the top tube.I have a double on my Downtube-Cruzbike but a tripple would not be hard to do. Jack

  18. #18
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    I tried a Flevo bike in Germany. Takes some getting used to as it's possible to jackknife it (in which case the Flying Spaghetti Monster may have mercy on you).
    The main no-no is see is that it's a recipe for killing your knees. Knees don't like it when the power does not flow straight down. With this design you'll constantly put high pressure on when the knees are at an angle. Very bad, and you'll know soon. My friend who owned the Flevo sold it very soon after he noticed the pain.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
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    Anyone else experienced knee pain on these moving-braket bikes like counterpoint's friend?

    This would also apply to the Python open-source design recumbents.

  20. #20
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    This is the first time I've heard of knee problems associated with MBB. But then, I don't ride one either.

  21. #21
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    FWD Recumbent

    How about the voss bevo-bike
    FWD and simple on and off.
    Kevin

  22. #22
    Senior Member atombikes's Avatar
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    knee pain

    I have not experienced knee pain from riding my MBB FWD bikes.
    atombikes

  23. #23
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    Or you can roll your own:

    Frontwheel drive

    I saw one of these in an older Encyclopedia and think it one of the more elegant bike designs out there:

    http://www.ihpva.org/people/ianf/bm92/Roulandt/076.htm

    http://www.pedersenbicycles.com/chinkara.htm

    Although that last writeup makes me not want to get one in a hurry. The trick to the geometry seems to be the relationship of the angle of the "head" under the seat and the contact of the tire. Looks like it is built around a standard amount of trail, even if the rake is pretty extreme--standard stuff for chopper builders with extended forks, was known as "Swedish" geometry for a while as I think that's where the idea found it's most modern incarnation. This is probably as close to RWS as anyone is going to get as well--I bet the more forward you move the steering pivot point, the more stable the bike gets and right under the rider like that is about as unstable as you can get and still be ridable at all. I would so love to ride one of these...

  24. #24
    Senior Member geebee's Avatar
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    I have a damaged knee and my MBB FWD trike does not hurt it at all, I would go so far as to say it MAY be less painfull than my GT3 and that is with zero float cleats on the MBB and floaty (new word) ones on the GT3.
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  25. #25
    Eschew Obfuscation SesameCrunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
    I was wondering if someone could attach a front derailluer with a tripple chain ring on the Curzbike?
    I have done just that. Triple chainring on my Downtube Cruzbike conversion. Works well.

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