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  1. #51
    bobkat
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    Quote :
    2) Smug
    I've read a ton of bad snotty attitudes from recumbent riders so I'm liking it even less to be in the same company. But I'm cheap and looking for something under $1000.00 so in many recumbent groups, I shouldn't have an opinion. I think too many people think owning a recumbent is some sort of elite social circle. :


    There's lot of good natured kidding back and forth, but most (but not all) of the snotty attitudes I've heard have come from the upright fraternity, especially the "young charger racer types!"
    I disagree that some bike racing organization should allow bents - maybe - but I'd bet you that 95% of bikers nave never heard of any racing organizations, and couldn't care less about racing. All they want to do is get out there on nice evenings and pedal around....

    Good luck with your $75.00 bike, though. Everyone will agree you get what you pay for! No wonder you want to give up biking! What many have said earlier and I'll echo, is some good entry level bents that could be mass produced and advertised a bit. One of the biggest complaint I hear is "where do you get one of those?" (no LBS around here has them) and "they are more expensive than my department store bike!" (partly because of low volume sales)

  2. #52
    Opt-in Member GreenGrasshoppr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recumbomatic View Post
    Battle Mountain is worth AT LEAST an hour of prime-time ESPN coverage. Package it with some behind the scenes filler material, and it could really pull in the viewers!
    I don't know... Battle Mountain, from what I've read about it and from the photos & videos I've seen, looks more like a drag race. And who watches drag races on tv?

    Most other recumbent races look like NASCAR.

    And the few long distance events that allow recumbents (RAAM, PBP) have little media coverage, if any.

    If the recumbent industry wanted to attract the media and a high television viewership, what is needed is an event that is exciting to watch.

    Even the drug tainted TdF is fun to watch, if only for the possibility of DF pile-ups, the drama associated with cyclists getting caught doping and roadside fans acting stupid.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobkat View Post
    Quote :

    Good luck with your $75.00 bike, though. Everyone will agree you get what you pay for! No wonder you want to give up biking! What many have said earlier and I'll echo, is some good entry level bents that could be mass produced and advertised a bit. One of the biggest complaint I hear is "where do you get one of those?" (no LBS around here has them) and "they are more expensive than my department store bike!" (partly because of low volume sales)
    Between a $75.00 K-mart Special and a high-end machine that costs more than a small house there is a lot of room. You can get a perfectly acceptable transportational ride for under $1,000.00.

  4. #54
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    I wonder how it would go over if the recumbent industry sponsored a televised race where it was understood that the riders were allowed certain performance enhancement procedures that they would probably try to get away with anyway. I bet that would attract some viewership, since both the bikes and the riders would be tweaked out. HA!

  5. #55
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
    Between a $75.00 K-mart Special and a high-end machine that costs more than a small house there is a lot of room. You can get a perfectly acceptable transportational ride for under $1,000.00.
    True - to an extent. But there are now more sub-$1000 bents out there than ever before. People still complain. What's with that?

  6. #56
    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielmramos View Post
    I wonder how it would go over if the recumbent industry sponsored a televised race where it was understood that the riders were allowed certain performance enhancement procedures that they would probably try to get away with anyway. I bet that would attract some viewership, since both the bikes and the riders would be tweaked out. HA!
    Yes, it would attract viewership. It would also blacken the reputation of the recumbent bike industry.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
    True - to an extent. But there are now more sub-$1000 bents out there than ever before. People still complain. What's with that?
    Not that much under $1K.

    My Fuji Monterrey cost a little over $600.00, with the Xtracycle conversion another $500.00 or so.

    My Trek Mountaineer I got used for $150.00, but I think new would have cost also about $600.00

    My Montegue Paratrooper folder cost $550.

    Any decent recumbents in that range?

    An even bigger problem is that they have to be special ordered; the LBS doesn't stock them, and I'm not about to lay out that kind of money for a 'pig in a poke.'

  8. #58
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    I believe Actionbent's base models start at $625; however most of the models are over $700 without any upgrades.

  9. #59
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    Oh, remember that if you buy from Actionbent you have to tack on the price of shipping and the cost of setup and having it checked out by yor LBS.

  10. #60
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    Well, I don't see why a recumbent would cost more, techinically. It should cost less, isn't it ? Less tubing, less welding. Maybe the seat would absorb these savings, though. Anyhow, if it was not because they don't sell that much, they should be priced about the same as regular bikes. Maybe not at WalMarts to start with, but at least in bike shops along the Specialized and Treks.

    In that respect the work that ActionBent is doing is a good step towards having less expensive recumbents. Mind you, I'd like to get an Optima Condor at perhaps $4000, but I'd also like to get a brand new Outback, as well as a brand new house, or one of these fancy sofas, etc...

    There are not many bikes made in North America, isn't it ? I mean cheap ones. So we'll have to rely on Asian imports for affordable recumbents. At least one company is making them now. I think that if recumbents would sell more, the price they're being sold for here would drop. If not simply because you'd order 5 containers of them instead of only one.

    On the other hand, the market pratices that supermarkets have prevents the 'little guy' from selling bikes. Eg, if the super store does not sell them they return them to you. If you are late by one hour on delivery day, they'll take your bikes at 10% discount, that is, if they do not refuse them.

    As being mentioned, official competitions involving recumbents would give a big boost. Moreover, the bikes at competition would have ample space on the rear fairing for sponsor advertisement. I think recumbent races would be entertaining to the average sport TV type.

    Apart from that we are not seeing advertisement for bikes - any kind - on TV, so commercials about recumbents would be a totally new hapenning in the TV world (I mean, not informercials - BTW, has AB tried that ?). Combined to a hype about recumbent competitions, this could yield to investments.

    Then cops would be aware about these bikes as being very fast and would watch closely these funny bikers. Plain people would start to gossip about those 'fast bikes' and teenagers (you know, the crowd that already ride bikes in every which way) would eventually find it cool. Especially if it can be demonstrated that a recumbent is not only a senior type of thing (not offense to seniors here :-) but can also be a bike with which you can singletrack and do some funny stuff. Which is the case, anyways. Daredevils wouldn't do the same obviously on a recumbent, but at least so adventurous possibilities woudl interest the younger crowd.

    Hey, get one of those pop stars to ride recumbents. Or get a politician. Both are anyways in the business for looks ;-)

  11. #61
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    Underseat steeriing

    Underseat steering scares some people off. When I bought my first recumbent, it was a private sale and the seller spent about 15 minutes helping me get used to the underseat steering. If I had been left by myself I probably would have crashed and not bought the recumbent. I had looked at a recumbent a few years before in another state, at a bicycle shop, and the salesman told me to take it out in the parking lot by myself to try it-I could never get started by myself and didn't buy it. If a recumbent shop had a riding area and staff to help people get started, they would sell a lot more.

  12. #62
    Senior Member comoto's Avatar
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    I see alot of people riding them in the ultra geek mode... Big orange flags mirrors and blinky lights
    With the big scraggly beard and big paunch hanging out. Thats the way to sell a bent!
    We need to keep it sporty and good looking people. Thats all the public wants now. How good
    can I look riding. Not about riding at all......

  13. #63
    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recumbomatic View Post
    Battle Mountain is worth AT LEAST an hour of prime-time ESPN coverage. Package it with some behind the scenes filler material, and it could really pull in the viewers!
    Personally, it would bring me in. But I'm afraid that TV would have a hard time selling most people on watching blobby shapes moving one at a time over several miles of a straight barren course. Enclosed bikes are fast, but they aren't fun to watch. As my step-mother has observed about photos, "I want to see the people."

    There's a reason that NASCAR courses tend to be ovals, and its not because the racing is better. Its because the audience can always see the racing. There's a reason why the cars look vaguely similar to the cars on the showroom floor as well.

    Race on Sunday, sell on Monday. Henry Ford knew that dictum back in the days of the 999.


    I think we'd probably be better off at a velodrome with a large number of standard recumbents racing in different classes like Low Racers, SWB, LWB etc. Have the racers mix it up and avoid standard velodrome type of events. Or a set road course similar to SuperBike racing where the racers are identifiable, and pass repeatedly in front of the audience. A professional go-kart track might be great for that. Even a simple local oval dirt track could do it.
    Last edited by Artkansas; 09-27-07 at 06:50 PM.

  14. #64
    Uber Goober StephenH's Avatar
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    My two cents worth:

    I've never ridden a recumbent, but it just always looked like an awkward arrangement mechanically. Pedals at one end, powered wheel at the other, handlebars in the middle, steered wheel at the end. You want it low but then have to put little dinky kid-bike wheels on to get it low. It's always seemed to me that recumbent designers couldn't quite get it figured out how to arrange things- thus the different layouts available. It reminds me of the early days of locomotives and autos, where they had some really odd designs before they got the "best" arrangement worked out.

    Now, this is my perception. It may be wrong, and you don't need to correct me necessarily. But this is the kind of image that works against sales.

    If you haven't seen it, check out Rohorn's bike here:
    Pics of your "alt bike(s)"?
    You'll note that a) it looks cool, b) is simpler than most any recumbents sold. How well it works and all, I don't know, so maybe it's not a design you want to sell, really. But having recumbents available where people look at them and go "Cool!" would be a major step up from 90% of the designs out there. Another cool recumbent is the one used by the guy in that 1-hour-record video. But I've never seen anyone ride anything like either one out on the street. Get people zipping around in those things and see if interest doesn't perk up a bit. To sell it to a younger crowd, it needs to be the newer faster bike, not the fogeymobile.

    One of the major factors mentioned is comfort. I'm perfectly comfortable on a big ol' cushy seat with straight or cruiser-style handlebars. On the other hand, I've never had a desire to spend more than 30 seconds on a hard narrow-seated bike with curled-under handlebars. So yeah, maybe a recumbent is more comfortable than a road bike, but then again, anything short of sitting on a cactus is, too. Sitting here in front of the computer is pretty comfortable, for that matter.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by carcassonne View Post
    Well, I don't see why a recumbent would cost more, techinically. It should cost less, isn't it ? Less tubing, less welding. Maybe the seat would absorb these savings, though. Anyhow, if it was not because they don't sell that much, they should be priced about the same as regular bikes. Maybe not at WalMarts to start with, but at least in bike shops along the Specialized and Treks.

    In that respect the work that ActionBent is doing is a good step towards having less expensive recumbents. Mind you, I'd like to get an Optima Condor at perhaps $4000, but I'd also like to get a brand new Outback, as well as a brand new house, or one of these fancy sofas, etc...

    There are not many bikes made in North America, isn't it ? I mean cheap ones. So we'll have to rely on Asian imports for affordable recumbents. At least one company is making them now. I think that if recumbents would sell more, the price they're being sold for here would drop. If not simply because you'd order 5 containers of them instead of only one.

    On the other hand, the market pratices that supermarkets have prevents the 'little guy' from selling bikes. Eg, if the super store does not sell them they return them to you. If you are late by one hour on delivery day, they'll take your bikes at 10% discount, that is, if they do not refuse them.

    As being mentioned, official competitions involving recumbents would give a big boost. Moreover, the bikes at competition would have ample space on the rear fairing for sponsor advertisement. I think recumbent races would be entertaining to the average sport TV type.

    Apart from that we are not seeing advertisement for bikes - any kind - on TV, so commercials about recumbents would be a totally new hapenning in the TV world (I mean, not informercials - BTW, has AB tried that ?). Combined to a hype about recumbent competitions, this could yield to investments.

    Then cops would be aware about these bikes as being very fast and would watch closely these funny bikers. Plain people would start to gossip about those 'fast bikes' and teenagers (you know, the crowd that already ride bikes in every which way) would eventually find it cool. Especially if it can be demonstrated that a recumbent is not only a senior type of thing (not offense to seniors here :-) but can also be a bike with which you can singletrack and do some funny stuff. Which is the case, anyways. Daredevils wouldn't do the same obviously on a recumbent, but at least so adventurous possibilities woudl interest the younger crowd.

    Hey, get one of those pop stars to ride recumbents. Or get a politician. Both are anyways in the business for looks ;-)
    I agree with you about the cost of recumbents. Wouldn't it be cool if stores like REI started selling the? Hey, guess what, there are actually three different Taiwanese companies that are selling recumbents through distributers in the U.S. They all used to be part of one conglomerate called China Mascot; however, they have since gone to their own development shops even though they still have agreements to use the production equipment they jointly purchased. Eventually we will see more diverse designs as a result of the split. Actually the bents at the recent 2007 Taipei cycle show are post split bents, hence the lowracer innovations. You know another strategy for advertisement is to get product placement in cool shows used by cool people. Computer companies do that all the time. If people see bents being used in a movie or on TV, then they are going to want them.

  16. #66
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    What about changing the name ? What do you ride ? A bent. You mean, it's not straight ? Bent on what ? It's not straight, it's bent. You just bought it new and it's bent ? Does it have anything to do with the yearly 'pride' parades ?

    'Recumbent' is OK, but 'bent', I think, is not a seller. It's almost like having the word 'gift' in a product name in Germany. 'Gift' means 'poison' in German.

    Think of a cool, updated and serious name for these bikes. One that conveys all the qualities that we know. 'bent' surely does not reflect those.

    My additional two cents.

  17. #67
    Steel is Real. markw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elkhound View Post
    Not that much under $1K.

    My Fuji Monterrey cost a little over $600.00, with the Xtracycle conversion another $500.00 or so.

    My Trek Mountaineer I got used for $150.00, but I think new would have cost also about $600.00

    My Montegue Paratrooper folder cost $550.

    Any decent recumbents in that range?

    An even bigger problem is that they have to be special ordered; the LBS doesn't stock them, and I'm not about to lay out that kind of money for a 'pig in a poke.'
    Unfortunately a recumbent shop is a destination, and not just a shop you go to. I drove almost 2 hours to get my Bacchetta Corsa from BentUp cycles in North Hollywood/Encino area. Just planned a Saturday and went. If you can't find anything locally, places like Bacchetta and Hostelshoppe have generous return policies so you don't have to travel to find one. My first recumbent was a Strada, and now I'm on a Carbon Aero, great bikes, lots of fun. There's always used also.

  18. #68
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    What's it Worth?

    Looks- Anything weíre not accustomed to is odd. Recumbents arenít popular enough to not be an oddity.
    When we see one we canít figure out if the guy riding it is a geek or some freak. I mean who lies down backward on a motorcycle to go forward? Or, why should I have my legs up in the air when peddling, or why down at a 45 degree on something thatís looks like a chopper wannabe. Most everything about a recumbent is unnatural looking to those used to looking at a conventional bike.
    Most consumers if given a choice even if they like what the bike looks like, would go straight for a conventional bike, a conventional bike looks normal a recumbent doesnít.

    Cost- Ignorance by the public including some Bent riders about what a good bike is worth is painfully obvious.
    1. You canít, and I repeat you canít find a professional new road bike (DF) for under a three grand, to some of you I know that price of a three grand is an insult. Iíd say a good pro bike is going to cost over $3,000. The frame alone is a couple grand + and the components another couple grand and more...plus wheels. Hey letís get with the times; 5-6 grand for a good road bike (DF) is okay.
    2. You get what you pay for...
    3. Get a Huffy you get a ďtractorĒ (donít mean to insult any farmers among us).
    4. You want a Bugatti or a Lamborghini and you buy a ______________ bike...?
    Letís face the music you get what you pay for...

    Marketing- Recumbent sales are somewhat like the Apple computer-- exclusive; PC are sold anywhere and so the prices go down, and don't tell me PC's are junk, I donít think so and I own an Apple. If we want recumbents to sell get them out there cheap as well as expensive and let anyone who can afford to sell them do so. There is no reason a cheap, piece of junk recumbent canít be made and sold. And, it wonít bring down the ďprestigeĒ of a recumbent any more then Huffy brings down the prestige of a ___________ (your choice of road bike).

    Donít snub the guy who pays three grand plus for a recumbent. You donít know if heís wealthy or has been saving his pennies for 5 years.

    I love both my Recumbent and DF, they cost me $3000.00 per bike & Iím not a wealthy guy I just put my money were I put my value.

  19. #69
    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
    My two cents worth:

    I've never ridden a recumbent, but it just always looked like an awkward arrangement mechanically. Pedals at one end, powered wheel at the other, handlebars in the middle, steered wheel at the end.
    Yes, well it used to look pretty freaky to have a chain to the back wheel instead of a giant front wheel. But that doesn't mean that all recumbents have to look alike.

    I looked at the design you linked to. My first thought was that I could never get it on the bus like I can with my Bacchetta. Then I noticed how long it was, what a long rake the front end had and that the pedals were up front, which makes pedaling it in a corner very difficult and tight turning impossible. It is cool though.

    I think that familiarity is a big problem for recumbents. Someone else mentioned the name "recumbent". Its a terrible name. The name is very important. Modern diamond frames were sold as "Safety" bikes. Others are comfort, mountain, racing. They get the message across well. Were I to convey a name, I'd call them car bikes or driver bikes for the similarity of the driving position to a car or just sitting bikes.

    I get a lot of questions as I ride mine. This morning's question, at a convenience store, was "Is that as comfortable as it looks?" His tone of voice conveyed that he thought it looked very comfortable. The big wide seat of my Bacchetta does look comfortable. Also, you can put your feet down with recumbents. That appeals to a lot of people. There are compromises to be reached engineering wise of course.

  20. #70
    Ride more, eat less cat0020's Avatar
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    Bikes need to make manufactuer money in order to be massly produced,
    bikes need to make retailers money in order to be stocked,
    bikes need to suit cosumers' needs in order to be purchased,
    bikes need to be well marketed in order for consumers to be interested in purchasing.
    What are some of the things that you personally think would get someone interested in buying their next bike as a recumbent?
    color choice?
    components choice?
    TV ads?
    website?
    dealer support?
    price level?
    Last edited by cat0020; 10-02-07 at 06:15 AM.
    Master your environment, and you will survive just fine.
    Chances favor the prepared mind.

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    How about a tour de bents? A race ridden on the same course as the TDF with bents?

  22. #72
    Recumbent Trike countersTrike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielmramos View Post
    I Wouldn't it be cool if stores like REI started selling the?
    Ace Hardware sold an EZ Tad a while back. But after that one sale no one mentioned that, and when I asked at the local Ace Hardware I was an instant comedien!

    Nice to know it CAN be done.

    Costco also tried to sell an E-Pod for Zap in 2004- that flopped- never sold even 1; so Zap dropped that e-power velomobile (a.k.a.- Aero Rider)

    countersTrike

  23. #73
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    I guess that bike in the link below looks cool aesthetically, but I would wonder about its practicality as a front-wheel drive vehicle with most of the weight distribution on the rear wheel. I'm trying to imagine climbing even a moderate hill on this thing. In any case, I find that by the time most people get around to buying bents, they honestly don't give a fly about how cool 20- and 30-somethings think they look - of course, my implication being that most people on 'bents are over 40. My guess, btw, is that the proportion of pot bellied / overweight folks pedaling bents would not be much different from that of the overall population of folks pedaling DFs. If you really take advantage of the ease of distance riding on recumbents, you will eventually lose the excess weight.


    Quote Originally Posted by StephenH View Post
    My two cents worth:


    If you haven't seen it, check out Rohorn's bike here:
    Pics of your "alt bike(s)"?
    You'll note that a) it looks cool, b) is simpler than most any recumbents sold. How well it works and all, I don't know, so maybe it's not a design you want to sell, really. But having recumbents available where people look at them and go "Cool!" would be a major step up from 90% of the designs out there. Another cool recumbent is the one used by the guy in that 1-hour-record video. But I've never seen anyone ride anything like either one out on the street. Get people zipping around in those things and see if interest doesn't perk up a bit. To sell it to a younger crowd, it needs to be the newer faster bike, not the fogeymobile.

  24. #74
    Ride more, eat less cat0020's Avatar
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    This is currently popular for the new riders adult age group in the US, this is how they sell it, you gotta check out the video on link:

    http://trekbikes.typepad.com/lime/ce...ime/index.html

    If Ellen or Oprah ride a recumbent regularly on their daytime TV shows.. or have Brad Pitt, George Cluney (and the rest of the Oceans XX crew) ride recumbents in their next blockbuster movie, recumbent sales would surely increase.

    Master your environment, and you will survive just fine.
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  25. #75
    Ride more, eat less cat0020's Avatar
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    Master your environment, and you will survive just fine.
    Chances favor the prepared mind.

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