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Question about upper body muscle use and 'bents

Old 04-22-09, 02:14 AM
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Question about upper body muscle use and 'bents

I'm "sneaking" over here to ask this....

I ride my DF bike for exercise and enjoyment. Even if it doesn't help me to lose weight, strengthen my legs, and improve my cardio I would still ride due to the fun. It clears my head and just melts away the stress.

I "cross train" with weight lifting, swimming, and walking/lumbering along. I was 310 at the start of the year, but with exercise and Weight Watchers, I'm down to 270 as of now and plan on getting down to around 240 before the end of the year. I'm weight goal is 190-185 by the end of 2010. Slow and steady all the way.

I love riding all bike types, hybrids, roadies, MTNs, ext. But I have really been getting into longer road rides and find them addicting. I get into an almost zen like state pedaling nowadays.

Due to the spring, I've dropped weight lifting and just swim twice a week and ride my bike. I'm currently doing a training program for long distance rides that has me riding three days a week (Wed, Sat and Sun) to build my distances up to metric and full century rides. Like I said, I love the long rides. I also do core exercises on my swimming days as well. I haven't noticed any loss in upper body strength since I've dropped the weights. It may be from the swimming, I don't know. But I do notice that I do use my upper body allot on my DF bike rides.

Now, do you 'bent riders notice any loss in upper body strength, over time, when you made the switch from DF bikes? From what I've learned from the searches, allot of 'bent rides switched due to shoulder and wrist pain as well as back pain. Do you use your upper body muscles at all? Or if you do, what percentage would guess compared to a DF bike?

One of the reasons I'm asking is that within this year, I'm going to have the funds (due to a settlement) to buy me a really nice touring bike outfit for long weekend rides and charity rides. I have been test riding and learning about 'bents and I"m about to settle on a SWB High Racer (I think that is the proper terms) (Bacchette Giro 26 or Strada) for this fall. I'm not having any physical problems, yet knock on wood, that keeps my from riding a DF. But I have a feeling that my kneck and shoulder muscles might be getting strained and could develop problems maybe.

But I do like the even more relaxed feeling and well being I get on a 'bent. We have beautiful scenery down here in So IL and I do get a "glance" at it now and then on my DF, but most of the time I'm looking at the road in front of me. I want even more enjoyment out of my rides.

And one more thing, am I looking at the right type of 'bents? I like to be able to ride longer distances and go at a decent speed. My rides are mostly paved road, but gravel and crushed limestone is a possiblity. IL isn't know for its great road up keep, so bumps and potholes are all over. And even a few rail trails and fire trails. Can the 'bents I "settled" on do that, or am I looking into getting two different types like a roadie and one for light off roading?

Thanks for any advise on selecting a 'bent.

Jerry

Last edited by Jerry in So IL; 04-24-09 at 01:04 PM. Reason: to help some.
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Old 04-22-09, 05:10 AM
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The Giro 26 can take fat tires and fenders with common 26" wheels and is probably better suited to touring duties than a Strada. Other than the 650c wheels and aero fork on the Strada they're essentially (exactly?) the same frame. Given what you're looking into I'd suggest the Giro 26. Other competitors would be the Volae Expedition or Expedition Pro and the Rans Enduro.

I think you'll find with the ~47" wheelbase the Giro will do just fine over rough pavement. My V-Rex does just fine on the crap we like to call pavement here in Mass., especially with a new bump-absorbing Kojak tire on the rear.
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Old 04-22-09, 06:22 AM
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upper body

Interesting question, and the answer is yes, you will lose some of your upper body strength. I know because I've was Upright for 16 years, Bent for 10 years and now I'm back to an upright since around the first of the year (training for RAAM this year). Right now I've got a bit over 1200 road miles and lots of trainer hours on the Upright.
I've noticed two things coming back to the upright my weight hasn't dropped much, but my waist has. I'm down 3 notches in my belt, and while I can't quantify my upper body strength unless I went back to the gym. I feel I'm stonger in my arms and shoulders.
Recumbents are great for the cardio and Lower body. My legs are like cinder blocks, but my middle was thick. I noticed in the full length mirror less of a pot belly showing now I'm riding upright. My weight has stayed pretty much the same, but I feel tighter, I suspect I have more muscle mass.
Reguarding cardio, I'm 58 years old and had a stress test in December, that I passed with flying colors. My max HR is around 167 and I can go from there to 125 in less than 2 minutes. I ride about 3500 miles a year, because it's fun.
As far as distance goes. My longest to date recently on my upright is around 60 miles, and I was pretty shot. 60 miles on a recumbent is a Sunday jaunt. I've done Dozens of centuries and at least 4 rides over 140 miles, the longest single day is 175 miles. I am slower on the bent, but not a whole lot. If it's flat, downhill, windy, or Rollers I'm actually faster, because of the areodynamics.
On the recumbent I tend to be a bit choosy on the ride terrain. I climb hills when I need to, but don't go looking for them. On the upright, I tend to look for them, but then I'm in training and I know they make me stronger. The bents are definitely more fun, less painful and at the end of the day you can go dancing. I've toured on both and in my experience the best set up is a bent with underseat racks. The bike handles heavy, but very neutral.
I currently ride a Giro 26, and really like it. I've had/have a giro 20, Rans Vrex, Tour easy, BikeE and a couple Catrikes. So far the 26 is the best utility bike. A bit faster than the 26 20 version. I love the disc brakes, and it handles a lot like a road bike. It's not the best commuter if you have lots of stops and starts. A 26x20 is easier on stops and starts because your feet are closer to the ground, and the recline is less severe on most 26x20's.
. When this year is over, I'll likely go back to the recumbents, but I'm going to try to stay current with both platforms. It's been fun riding an upright again, but as I sit here typing this, I feel a slight twinge on my butt where my saddle hits. It's a subtle reminder my recumbents miss me.
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Old 04-22-09, 07:20 AM
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Don't look to bicycling, upright or 'bent, for building or maintaining upper body strength. 'Bent-riding certainly engages the upper body less than upright cycling but I would suggest continuing your cross-training either way.
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Old 04-22-09, 07:30 AM
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On a racing DF, a third of your weight is supported by the seat, a third of your weight is supported by the pedals, and the other third of your weight is supported by the handlebars. On a 'bent, it's all on the seat. So your arms, shoulders, hands can completely relax.
Riding this way is extremely comfortable.

My advice is to ride all kinds of different recumbents before considering buying one.
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Old 04-22-09, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by cod.peace
The Giro 26 can take fat tires and fenders with common 26" wheels and is probably better suited to touring duties than a Strada. Other than the 650c wheels and aero fork on the Strada they're essentially (exactly?) the same frame. Given what you're looking into I'd suggest the Giro 26. Other competitors would be the Volae Expedition or Expedition Pro and the Rans Enduro.

I think you'll find with the ~47" wheelbase the Giro will do just fine over rough pavement. My V-Rex does just fine on the crap we like to call pavement here in Mass., especially with a new bump-absorbing Kojak tire on the rear.
Thanks for the other suggestions. I like the Giro 26 more because of the ability to take off the self 1.5" tires from my LBS.

Jerry
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Old 04-22-09, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JanMM
Don't look to bicycling, upright or 'bent, for building or maintaining upper body strength. 'Bent-riding certainly engages the upper body less than upright cycling but I would suggest continuing your cross-training either way.
I don't, I thought my question was asking if you noticed allot of loss in upper body strength while riding a 'bent vs a DF bike. I'm pretty well versed on how weight lifting works.

Jerry
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Old 04-22-09, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DennyV
Interesting question, and the answer is yes, you will lose some of your upper body strength. I know because I've was Upright for 16 years, Bent for 10 years and now I'm back to an upright since around the first of the year (training for RAAM this year). Right now I've got a bit over 1200 road miles and lots of trainer hours on the Upright.
I've noticed two things coming back to the upright my weight hasn't dropped much, but my waist has. I'm down 3 notches in my belt, and while I can't quantify my upper body strength unless I went back to the gym. I feel I'm stonger in my arms and shoulders.
Recumbents are great for the cardio and Lower body. My legs are like cinder blocks, but my middle was thick. I noticed in the full length mirror less of a pot belly showing now I'm riding upright. My weight has stayed pretty much the same, but I feel tighter, I suspect I have more muscle mass.
Reguarding cardio, I'm 58 years old and had a stress test in December, that I passed with flying colors. My max HR is around 167 and I can go from there to 125 in less than 2 minutes. I ride about 3500 miles a year, because it's fun.
As far as distance goes. My longest to date recently on my upright is around 60 miles, and I was pretty shot. 60 miles on a recumbent is a Sunday jaunt. I've done Dozens of centuries and at least 4 rides over 140 miles, the longest single day is 175 miles. I am slower on the bent, but not a whole lot. If it's flat, downhill, windy, or Rollers I'm actually faster, because of the areodynamics.
On the recumbent I tend to be a bit choosy on the ride terrain. I climb hills when I need to, but don't go looking for them. On the upright, I tend to look for them, but then I'm in training and I know they make me stronger. The bents are definitely more fun, less painful and at the end of the day you can go dancing. I've toured on both and in my experience the best set up is a bent with underseat racks. The bike handles heavy, but very neutral.
I currently ride a Giro 26, and really like it. I've had/have a giro 20, Rans Vrex, Tour easy, BikeE and a couple Catrikes. So far the 26 is the best utility bike. A bit faster than the 26 20 version. I love the disc brakes, and it handles a lot like a road bike. It's not the best commuter if you have lots of stops and starts. A 26x20 is easier on stops and starts because your feet are closer to the ground, and the recline is less severe on most 26x20's.
. When this year is over, I'll likely go back to the recumbents, but I'm going to try to stay current with both platforms. It's been fun riding an upright again, but as I sit here typing this, I feel a slight twinge on my butt where my saddle hits. It's a subtle reminder my recumbents miss me.
Ride'm if you got'em
Denny
Thanks Denny!

Yea the DF bike relies on more core muscles while pedaling.

Really thanks to all who replies. I've been on about five different 'bents so far. Not gotten allot of seat time, about 15 minutes was the longest on a Giro 20/26 but long enough to know that I could really do the switch and not regret it. Although I will still have my DF bikes, like I said I really enjoy biking. But I think the 'bents would add more enjoyment and allow me to relax more while trekking through the landscape.

As far as the lost in upper body strength, I would say its like having to ride an exercise bike over a moving bike. But that is what I excepted and can live with. Hell, I can always stop drop and do twenty pushups and situps when I see a deer on my rides! Plus the other exercise I do will make up for that lost of upper boddy workout. But I really see me using the 'bent as a way to have more fun than an exercising tool.

Jerry
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Old 04-22-09, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry in So IL
I don't, I thought my question was asking if you noticed allot of loss in upper body strength while riding a 'bent vs a DF bike. I'm pretty well versed on how weight lifting works.

Jerry
I don't think that cycling has much effect on upper body strength gain or loss.
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Old 04-23-09, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry in So IL
<snip>
I love riding all bike types, hybrids, roadies, MTNs, ext. But I have really been getting into longer road rides and find them addicting. I get into an almost zen like state pedaling nowadays.
<snip>
But I do like the even more relaxed feeling and well being I get on a 'bent. We have beautiful scenery down here in So IL and I do get a "glance" at it now and then on my DF, but most of the time I'm looking at the road in front of me. I want even more enjoyment out of my rides.

And one more thing, am I looking at the right type of 'bents? I like to be able to ride longer distances and go at a decent speed. My rides are mostly paved road, but gravel and crushed limestone is a possiblity. IL isn't know for its great road up keep, so bumps and potholes are all over. And even a few rail trails and fire trails. Can the 'bents I "settled" on do that, or am I looking into getting two different types like a roadie and one for light off roading?

Thanks for any advise.

Jerry
I like all kinds of bikes, too: https://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/Gallery/index.html
but the bents get most of the miles. They're great for seeing the scenery- and I've got some scenery to see: https://www.ohpv.org/events/bog/BoG.htm and https://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/...es/rites08.htm . My usual line is "It's just like sitting in an easy chair- except the scenery changes!"

Several of my friends have ridden long distances on their Easy Racer bikes. These aren't superb in any one area, but they're adaptable to all sorts of uses. A couple of the guys finished off a cross-USA tour one week and were competing in 10-mile time trials the next- on the same bikes. You can read their tale here: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/ER2005 . Another friend is riding the Southern Teir route right now: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/Slug .

Back to the original question: I've been riding mostly 'bents for 17 years. My upper body is a dried up husk of what it used to be. Maybe I ought to get to the gym.
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Old 04-23-09, 12:31 AM
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I recently switched from a DF to a recumbent and I did notice that even though I don't use upper body at all with the bent, I ride much much longer and I'm already noticing some weight loss because of that.
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Old 04-23-09, 12:47 AM
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For me, the upper body strength loss was a non-issue. I hadn't been able to ride a DF for about 4 years when I got my 'bent trike. To try and balance things though, I walk using my trekking poles. Also if I want to rest my legs, but still workout, I drag my little inflatable kayak down to the river and paddle my way upstream. That tones me up quicker than any weight lifting I've ever done. Burns insane amount of calories too.
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Old 04-23-09, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills
I like all kinds of bikes, too: https://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/Gallery/index.html
but the bents get most of the miles. They're great for seeing the scenery- and I've got some scenery to see: https://www.ohpv.org/events/bog/BoG.htm and https://home.comcast.net/~jeff_wills/...es/rites08.htm . My usual line is "It's just like sitting in an easy chair- except the scenery changes!"

Several of my friends have ridden long distances on their Easy Racer bikes. These aren't superb in any one area, but they're adaptable to all sorts of uses. A couple of the guys finished off a cross-USA tour one week and were competing in 10-mile time trials the next- on the same bikes. You can read their tale here: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/ER2005 . Another friend is riding the Southern Teir route right now: https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/Slug .

Back to the original question: I've been riding mostly 'bents for 17 years. My upper body is a dried up husk of what it used to be. Maybe I ought to get to the gym.
I've been looking over your site for the past week now. ALLOT of great stuff!

Originally Posted by Jay D
I recently switched from a DF to a recumbent and I did notice that even though I don't use upper body at all with the bent, I ride much much longer and I'm already noticing some weight loss because of that.
Sure, calories burned equal loss of weight, not matter what the exercise. I'm hoping to get very long rides every weekend that I can on my 'bent. I'm doing 35-40 miles, three times a week now on my OCR2 DF in order to train for the metric and full centuries I have planned for this year. I'm hoping the 'bent gets me up to double that in the upcoming year.

Originally Posted by aenlaasu
For me, the upper body strength loss was a non-issue. I hadn't been able to ride a DF for about 4 years when I got my 'bent trike. To try and balance things though, I walk using my trekking poles. Also if I want to rest my legs, but still workout, I drag my little inflatable kayak down to the river and paddle my way upstream. That tones me up quicker than any weight lifting I've ever done. Burns insane amount of calories too.
I basicly swim intervals now as my only upper body strengthen workout. I wouldn't say that rowing and kayaking are child's play either! And you can almost feel the calories and fat being ripped from your body as you do it!

Jerry
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Old 04-23-09, 05:58 AM
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I agree with janmm; riding an upright isn't exactly what I'd call a strength-building activity for upper body. It's mostly isometric, and at only 1/3 of your body weight, it's not very stressful. I suppose my estimation might change if the cyclist in question did a LOT of standing on long climbs, but that's not quite the kind of riding that someone in Illinois would be doing. All that said, riding a recumbent involves even less upper body. Have I noticed a loss in upper body strength since going to a recumbent? No. I don't lift or do calesthenics, but I swim in the off-season.
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Old 04-23-09, 07:47 AM
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Bents and upper body

I'm not sure if this will help or not, but I have two compessed disks in my back and deliberately switched to a bent from an upright. I used to ride the uprigt every day, but moving to a rural area forced me to give up riding (which I had done every day since I was a kid). I'm not sure about the end result I will have, but my back as in *really* bad shape when I started a couple of months ago. Now the lower back pain is going away (because of exercising that part of my body again) and I'm hoping (and my chiropractor thinks it might work) that the compressed disk in my upper torso will gain muscle support with this exercise.

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Old 04-23-09, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
I agree with janmm; riding an upright isn't exactly what I'd call a strength-building activity for upper body.

I respect you and jan's input, but maybe I'm not clear. I am asking if DF biking builds upper body strength. I was just asking if 'bent riders noticed a loss of upper body strenth.

Jerry
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Old 04-23-09, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry in So IL
I respect you and jan's input, but maybe I'm not clear. I am asking if DF biking builds upper body strength. I was just asking if 'bent riders noticed a loss of upper body strenth.

Jerry
It's my fault for saying it wrong. IMHO, even DF-riding must be supplemented with upper-body exercises because if that's all you do, you won't maintain your upper body strength. Put simply, bicycling is poor exercise to prepare you for bicycling. But the effect is potentially worse with recumbent bicycles because they don't require *any* upper body strength. If not for lifting it into the truck at the end of a ride, I'd get no upper body workout at all from riding.
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Old 04-23-09, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
Put simply, bicycling is poor exercise to prepare you for bicycling.
That's it, in a nutshell.
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Old 04-23-09, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
Put simply, bicycling is poor exercise to prepare you for bicycling.
I agree with you on you other statements, but on the quoted one I have to respectfully disagree. Its like saying running will not get you in shape for running.

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Old 04-23-09, 08:46 PM
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You'll be a better cyclist with upper body strength/core strength that you can't get from cycling.
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Old 04-24-09, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jerry in So IL
I'm "sneaking" over here to ask this....

I ride my DF bike for exercise and enjoyment. Even if it doesn't help me to lose weight, strengthen my legs, and improve my cardio I would still ride due to the fun. It clears my head and just melts away the stress.

I "cross train" with weight lifting, swimming, and walking/lumbering along. I was 310 at the start of the year, but with exercise and Weight Watchers, I'm down to 270 as of now and plan on getting down to around 240 before the end of the year. I'm weight goal is 190-185 by the end of 2010. Slow and steady all the way.

I love riding all bike types, hybrids, roadies, MTNs, ext. But I have really been getting into longer road rides and find them addicting. I get into an almost zen like state pedaling nowadays.

Due to the spring, I've dropped weight lifting and just swim twice a week and ride my bike. I'm currently doing a training program for long distance rides that has me riding three days a week (Wed, Sat and Sun) to build my distances up to metric and full century rides. Like I said, I love the long rides. I also do core exercises on my swimming days as well. I haven't noticed any loss in upper body strength since I've dropped the weights. It may be from the swimming, I don't know. But I do notice that I do use my upper body allot on my DF bike rides.

Now, do you 'bent riders notice any loss in upper body strength, over time, when you made the switch from DF bikes? From what I've learned from the searches, allot of 'bent rides switched due to shoulder and wrist pain as well as back pain. Do you use your upper body muscles at all? Or if you do, what percentage would guess compared to a DF bike?

One of the reasons I'm asking is that within this year, I'm going to have the funds (due to a settlement) to buy me a really nice touring bike outfit for long weekend rides and charity rides. I have been test riding and learning about 'bents and I"m about to settle on a SWB High Racer (I think that is the proper terms) (Bacchette Giro 26 or Strada) for this fall. I'm not having any physical problems, yet knock on wood, that keeps my from riding a DF. But I have a feeling that my kneck and shoulder muscles might be getting strained and could develop problems maybe.

But I do like the even more relaxed feeling and well being I get on a 'bent. We have beautiful scenery down here in So IL and I do get a "glance" at it now and then on my DF, but most of the time I'm looking at the road in front of me. I want even more enjoyment out of my rides.

And one more thing, am I looking at the right type of 'bents? I like to be able to ride longer distances and go at a decent speed. My rides are mostly paved road, but gravel and crushed limestone is a possiblity. IL isn't know for its great road up keep, so bumps and potholes are all over. And even a few rail trails and fire trails. Can the 'bents I "settled" on do that, or am I looking into getting two different types like a roadie and one for light off roading?

Thanks for any advise ON SELECTING A BENT.

Jerry
OK, I've reread and reread my OP. I think I'm pretty good at this communicating stuff, but you never know. I'm not asking about cross training or that other exercises I should be doing. Truthly I'm don't need your input on it, and I really don't care for your input on it. Write a book if you feel like you need to tell anyone about it. If you want to open a new thread with workouts and whatnots, do it with my blessing.

Flame on all you want. I'm heading over to another board to ask this simple question. But I do wish to say thank you to those who have answered my question. Its been a real help. The others can just.....

Jerry
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Old 04-24-09, 04:33 PM
  #22  
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What was the question? I thought we were trying to answer it.

Last edited by JanMM; 04-24-09 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 04-25-09, 10:28 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by JanMM
What was the question? I thought we were trying to answer it.
Near as I can tell, his question was, "Does not exercising a muscle result in that muscle losing strength?" And, of course, the answer is, "Yes."
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Old 04-25-09, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by deraltekluge
Near as I can tell, his question was, "Does not exercising a muscle result in that muscle losing strength?" And, of course, the answer is, "Yes."
I think the question was more like, "have you noticed a loss in strength due to your recumbents not using some muscles?" The answer seemed to be "no because riding recumbents isn't the only exercise we get."
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Old 04-26-09, 08:17 AM
  #25  
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I don't ever recall building upper body mass riding my road bike many years ago. Even riding my MTB for urban commute did not really do it. When I think about it, the only time I get any upper body work on a DF is when I'm riding my mountain bike off-road, probably from raising the front wheel over stuff is and getting the landings right. Even now, riding my long-tail cargo bike only puts cramps in my shoulders.

:)ensen.
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