Averyius

I am a Scotsman living in Vindobona, Austria ( = Vienna). I am new to this forum and am visiting it in the hope that someone can put my mind to rest and calm my nerves. I have a second hand, approx. 10 to 12 year old, 10 speed racing bicycle but I donīt know which model type (perhaps some French design) or exactly which frame material (either aluminium or steel ?). It was given to me by a friend who also doesnīt know all the details since it was not his bike either. I can ride fairly fast ( maybe about 20km / hr) on a level stretch of road for a couple of kilometres if I want to, especially with little or no extra weight such as a rucksack. My average speed I have been told is about 13 to 15 Km / hr. Which is always with a rucksack weighing about 4 - 5 kg. Sometimes more. I am 1m82cm tall and weigh about 85 - 90Kg. Aged 52 but very fit and healthy. I have ridden bicycles since about age 8. I have also always been very sporting and athletic, went hill walking frequently while in school and love swimming and running. When I ride over long distances of say 20 to 30 Km, I get pains in my wrists from leaning forward and downwards on the handlebars, pains in the crotch due to the saddle (despite having modified it myself to make it more comfortable), pains in the knees and sore feet. I am not interested in performing in races only in the bicycle as a means of transport and being comfortable throughout the jouney and not too exhausted and racked with pain at the end. My German friend who gave it to me is a spastik and can only ride a tricycle. He is about as tall and heavy as me but 12 years younger. Obviously he has never ridden on a bicycle in his life and has no idea of the pains and limitations from actual experience. He has a "Mad Max" (see "Bike Revolution / Mad Max von Steintrike) recumbant trike which he has been riding for only about 3 years. Despite his lack of experience he considers himself to be an expert on bicycles and recumbants and behaves like a Cycling Coach, always giving me advice and correcting me. He is a fanatic for doing calculations in his head and quoting statistics although he doesnīt even have the "Abitur" = A-Levels, = Scottish Highers, = High-School Diploma. He is a gross macho technical freak and also thinks he is a computer expert. I am an academic with a B.Sc Degree from Edinburgh University and a Post Graduate Diploma. He is certainly not more knowledgeable or talented than me in technical things and certainly not half as much regarding science.
Now here is the main point: He loves to go on long tours with his Trike and wants me to go with him which I would like to do but would need to further modify my bicycle to do so. We have gone on some training tours of max. 36Km at a time. One time we rode ca. 50km with about 30Kg on my back! At the end of which I have pains and need days to recover. He has a speedometer attached to his trike and is obsessed with speed. He has been massively criticizing me and heavily insulting me because I average only 13 km / hr according to him, despite travelling much faster some of the time and because I canīt always keep up with him or climb steep hills without dismounting. He considers me to be a weakling and unfit and a complete idiot and ignoramus because I have been trying to tell him about the obvious advantages of his vehicle compared to mine and because I would need an extra few gears to be able to improve my speed performance. He just keeps quoting the weight difference between our vehicles and that I have a racing bike which is perfectly good and that I should increase the rate of pedalling. He simply wonīt listen to me and insists he is right. Heīs been terrorizing me with insults for days via E.Mails and smsīs. Can someone please help me to correct him and make him shut up and eat his own words?

bike00

I'd find a new riding partner. This guy does not sound like a "friend".

drmweaver2

***Warning: You are now tuned to the TOUGH LOVE radio station***
1. No one has to answer SMSs, emails or phone calls. If he's not "anonymized" somehow, ignore any incoming messages or phone calls from him if you don't want to deal with them/him. How tough is that?

2. Grow a pair. Stand up for yourself. If you've got the academic credentials you claim, then why put up with any crap? If you can't out-argue him, your credentials aren't worth squat. They aren't in bicycling anyway, but, just saying. At worst, you can always walk/ride away.

3. He may or may not actually be correct about some of the things he's telling you. A little research on the Net or talking with other bikers should identify which part of "some" that is. If he's right and you're still sore, so be it. Swallow your own ego and decide whether or not to take the advice. If he's wrong, whether you're sore or not, ignore the advice. You're riding your bike; no one else is.

4. It isn't necessary to make him eat his words - that's your ego versus his. Heard the one about fighting a pig in a stye/wallow? - you'll lose and both of you will stil be dirty after it's all over and done with.

5. Lastly, only you know what you are capable of effort, speed and endurance-wise. You are the only one who controls your cadence, effort and whether to ride through pain or stop. You also choose your riding partners. What's the problem? If you're a masochist, ride with him some more. If you're not, do a costs/benefits analysis. If he comes out on the short end.. have you really lost anything? If riding with him actually has more benefit for you than detriment, then deal with it.
***WE now return you to your regularly scheduled programming***

Tom Stormcrowe

By the way, there's a reason that recumbents aren't allowed in sanctioned races. Traditional diamond frame bikes aren't as fast.

Now, if you do decide to tour, get the gear, as in racks and panniers, or a trailer (My option), and have fun touring, whether it be with this guy or not. The gear will be far more comfortable than cycling with a bleedin' rucksack, anyhoo. By the way, I'd be a "greetin' teeny" after 50 KM with a 30 kilo ruck on my back on a road bike. A wimp, you are not!

BlazingPedals

Firstly, if it's a true 10-speed bike, then it's more like 30 years old. A 10-12 year old bike would be 16-18 speeds, or 24-27 speeds if it has a triple chainring set.

Technique-wise, the biggest thing to pay attention to is cadence. Keep a cadence of about 80-90 rpm at the pedals, and vary your gears based on that, not on how fast you want to go. That's about 3 foot-steps per second, which may feel unnatural at first. Riding with a low cadence can make you tire more quickly. Keeping a good cadence will let you increase your average speed AND you'll feel better at the end of the ride.

Okay, now about the hills. Obviously, if he's feeling superior on climbs, the first step is to give him more weight to carry. That'll slow him up! 60 Kg is a heck of a lot to carry. Why so much? Can you pare the load down to something more manageable? If he's pedaling up and you're walking up, and there's no big difference in weight, then it's only because of the difference in gearing between his and yours. Trikes tend to have hugely low gears, because that's their strong point - climbing extremely slowly; slower than a 2-wheeler can balance. You may need lower gears to handle those hills. Other than that, a road bike should be faster than a trike - once you get fully in shape.

Lastly, as the others have said, if your 'friend' continues to be abusive, let him know that he doesn't have to ride with you, and you don't have to ride with him. I'm sure you can find others to ride with, while he may not be able to. You're just getting into biking, and it should be fun. You shouldn't have to endure insults.

Cyclebum

Reevaluate your 'friendship' with this guy. Is it worth the pain of dealing with someone so lacking in tact? You are not likely to change him.

Do a lot of research on cycling and techniques, both for go fast(road)and touring. Big differences. Learn the language of cycling. Check out www.crazyguyonabike.com for touring related cycling. Search the journals for 'Austria.'

Fit is First when it comes to selecting a bicycle, especially one you intend to ride for hours at a time, and doubly important for a diamond frame. Get advice about this from your local bike shop and/or experienced, tactful cyclists. Not from your 'friend.'

Like any aerobic activity, the muscles involved must be conditioned/strengthened for maximum performance. This can take many weeks of riding for peak results.

Recumbents are inherently more comfortable than any DF(diamond frame.) A conditioned rider can easily keep up with a roadie(go fast fellow.) Two wheeled short wheel base recombents are the fastest. Long wheel base recombents are more commonly used for touring.

Peter_C

Ouch! With a friend like that, I don't think you need any enemies ~!

Most people when they switch from a bike to a trike find themselves about 3mph slower. But their comfort level is hugely better so most find the trade-off worth it. Trikes are usually slower on hills than bikes are - unless the hill is so steep that a bike can't remain upright, and the trike can keep pedaling. I ride a cheap 'Rover' trike, and have lowered my gears that I can go up hills at under 2mph and be fairly comfortable.

Three years on a trike usually means the guy is bout as fast as he's gonna get if he rides all the time, as he is used to his trike. Trikes for touring are wonderful, perhaps you may wish to try a few and switch yourself? Something to think about. Getting rid of the rucksack is your first step in creating more comfort for yourself!! FYI - use a magnet on your bike to see if it's steel or aluminum???

If it were me in your shoes, I think I would consider ending the 'friendship'...

Dudelsack 

Retro Grouch 

I see your avitar is a tandem. The reason tandems exist is so that two people, who are not evenly matched physically, can ride together. It's hard to ride with someone else unless you're pretty evenly matched. Otherwise one partner feels like they aren't doing anything and the other feels like they're chaseing all the time.

bike00

I disagree:

First, tandems exist for two people to ride together. Period. Some may not be physically matched, others may be. My stoker and I are pretty close. It's just the way we choose to ride when we ride together. We also ride single bikes.

Second, when I ride with others, it's usually because of the social aspect. I match my riding style to theirs. If you can't do that, you are better off riding alone rather than expecting someone to keep up with you, or feeling you are chasing or keeping someone back.

If I want to hammer out a training ride, I ride alone.

Retro Grouch 

Well, I knew when I posted there was a possibility for disagreement.

Here's where I'm coming from. Mrs. Grouch and I have been riding tandems together since 1976. During that time we have come to know literally hundreds of other tandem teams. As you mentioned, they aren't all the same. Never-the-less, a common thread amoong a big majority of these teams is a desire for two individuals of unequal physical ability to ride together.

Trsnrtr

RG, we've been riding tandems since 1982, are evenly matched, and have ridden with literally thousands of teams if you count all the rallies that we've been to.

Anyway, tandeming is for two people to enjoy each other's company while riding. No more needs to be said.

gcottay

What he said.

mymojo

As the others have pointed out, you dont have to ride with him.

Now here's a question that may anger you, but its an honest question to think about: could he be right?

It sounds like you are convinced you are smarter & better educated than he is and cant possibly learn anything from handicapped individual on a recumbent. Even though as you pointed out, he has been riding longer than you. It seems you believe your book smarts outweigh his actual experience. Cuz his three years of actual experience, in my opinion, is more valuable than four years in a classroom.

Cyclebum

Excellent insight on the op's rant. I whiffed a foul odor, but couldn't quite pin it down. You may have.

Peter_C

With respect, I do not consider it a 'rant', as he was also asking for help. Granted, hoping for an outcome in a given direction, but was asking either way. Of course, anyone can think good or bad of a post or topic, but I do not see a reason to be negative about a Poster, or a topic.

Sometimes, when you are surrounded by trees, it can be hard to see the forest. By reaching out to others for opinions, insight, and ideas, perhaps some insight may be gained. But (IMO only), using words like 'rant' and 'foul odor' usually do not come across as either helpful, or caring. I really am not trying to be the 'thought police', nor am I anything but a forum member, but i do wish folks here could/would take the time to create a post as they would talk to a person they know face-to-face, with both respect and awareness for the other person's feelings.

FYI - I too agree with 'mymojo', and his insight and question. I think that *may* be a very valid point, but only the OP can say - I can only hope we have not scared him away, and that hopefully he has at least read and thought about the many good ideas and suggestions he has been given.

Averyius

Many thanks for all your replies. Even the very peculiar ones whoīs message is only known to the author. The most useful one was Mr. Stormcroweīs who confirmed that recumbant vehicles are a bit faster than upright / diamond frame bicycles. I was also wondering why upright cyclists donīt want to compete against recumbant riders. I have also tried out my Friends trike, and for comfort it is really better than an upright - more like being in a kind of car. Performance wise, you can really travel fast and I think with less effort. Of course a rucksack is not optimal but is the only possibility at the moment because Iīm one of the poorest people in Europe. My Friend isnīt the only handicapped person.

I donīt have a tandom, the Avatar must be automatically generated.

Blazing Pedals:Yes I do indeed have only 10 gears with only 2 cog-wheels in front (double chainring set?). My Friend said the bike was only about 12 years old, but I also had my doubts since it looked like the racing bikes from about 20 - 30 years ago. Also the lights and dynamo and the slightly rusted frame look very old. The saddle is modern though - a typical narrow, gell-filled, torture instrument. It seems mechanically sound enough although I had a couple of "Snake bite" punktures and had to eventually replace the rim tapes inside the wheel. My friend also criticized me for looking up information on the internet about gears, wheels and punctures and for not knowing instinctively how to change the inner tube. Itīs been about 40 years since I ever had to. We changed it together and he also didnīt know everything. He also had to struggle with the very narrow tyre and we broke one of the modern carbon fibre (?) tyre levers / tyre "irons". Now I only use metal spoons. Much better than modern rubbish.

As far as choosing another partner is concerned, making new friends isnīt easy when you canīt afford to go anywhere and barely have enough to feed yourself each week. In many ways heīs a good Friend (the only one right now) and has some annoying characteristics, but donīt we all. We tend always to get over our arguments without anything other than raising our voices. Iīm not a masochist, but if a friendship canīt survive arguments, disagreements, losses of temper and insults - then it is no friendship but merely an aquaintance. Neither of us are machines. Itīs just annoying when someone doesnīt respect any knowledge you have regarding e. g. the laws of physics and mechanics. Itīs not just about bicycles, he can be an overbearing, arrogant, opinionated know it all about many subjects - but heīs still my friend! Weīre more like brothers or like old war veteran buddies since we have both had hard times and Iīve known him since we were homeless and stayed in the Salvation Army home 8 years ago. He is correct about things sometimes and I have always admitted my faulty memory and mistakes. When one is right, then they are right. Iīm not a snob on an ego trip but just feel that I am right about this one thing and want to get information from others to make my friend see reason. It took him a long time to understand and admit that I am not unique when I complain about pains and discomfort. I sent him info. from the internet but he still cannot understand why I canīt keep up with him when we are out riding. Just because I havenīt ridden bicycles regularly for years doesnīt mean they are new to me. I always had a bicycle up to my student days in Edinburgh. I just donīt compete in races and donīt want to. I can ride as fast as him and even overtake him if I go like the hammers, but he doesnīt understand that this is not the way to travel on a long tour. He is obsessed with an average minimum speed of 17 Km / Hr. (with luggage of course). I think those people and those articles which state that an upright / DF bicycle is faster than a recumbant trike, are thinking about a person with modern sports clothing, no rucksack, a relatively new bike and riding like a typical racing athlete bent down and forward driving like the clappers. Not the average person with normal clothes, trying to sit as upright (and therefore comfortably) as possible and not having any interest in breaking records but merely wanting to travel a long distance and transport camping gear to the next camp site without accidents: he also criticises me for riding slowly downhill (we donīt wear helmets and such modern protective gear) because he always goes full speed. I have had enough bad accidents and am not looking for more and donīt want to run down some poor unexpecting pedestrian when we turn the next bend.

I am not "ranting" but prefer writing as much detail as possible so people can understand better. This is good technical authorship which I also studied. Rather than the stupid short notes and stange pictures which do not really transmit much information which some people do. Perhaps written by a another macho type who only wants to read about nuts and bolts and doesnīt like behaving like a human being but would prefer to be a machine themselves? Is it asking too much to expect and hope for nice and polite answers and also useful information?
I just hoped to get information here to confirm that with his ( apparently with over 70 gears!) recumbant, he can travel more comfortably and faster on average than I can.
The answer regarding the magnet to test the frame material was great. Thank you. As soon as I can, Iīll get my hands on a magnet and try it out. My friend says his trike is so heavy because itīs made of steel. Stupid of me not to have thought of that!

Again, many thanks for all the answers!

BlazingPedals

I don't know for sure if Averyius' biking associate is browbeating him or if it's just being taken that way. But by my standards, 13 Kph is massively slow. Around here, that would get you run over on a MUP. Our slowest club rides are 12 mph (19 Kph,) and those are mostly ridden by 70 and 80 year olds, along with a few rank beginners who are much faster but don't yet have the confidence to ride with the faster groups.

At that speed, improvement should be coming in leaps and bounds, unless there's something wrong with either the bike or the engine.

rydabent

At your age, you know that a DF bike equals pain. It is really time for you to realize that a recumbent is the way to go. It doesnt make much difference wether it is a recumbent bike or trike. I have both and enjoy ridding both. The bike is faster, and the trike is the most relaxing way to ride. And of course the big thing on either is that lack of pain, and the view. No more looking down at your front wheel.

Peter_C

One point to add? Your friend is on a trike I believe? Almost any trike can 'coast' down hill faster than most people on DFs can pedal (depending on the hill of course). On Steep hills, I on my Rover (recumbent trike, basic, no frills) have actually passed 'roadies' that were pedaling hard - of course, as soon as we hit the flat, they re-passed me again because I am slow over-all.

Averyius

Dear Blazing Pedals,
Thanks for everyones quick reply and yours. Na ja! Perhaps both of you are right. Maybe Iīm just not pedalling fast enough, or in the higher gears, just not pushing down hard enough? But then again, with this old bike (which I am told has been written about and photographed in many newspapers and magazines because it has been everywhere and has participated in competitions) I just canīt get more speed out of it even though I consider myself very strong. I do my best but my knees and wrists are aching for days afterwards. I believe I could do much better if things were more evened up. His 3 - 4 year old, recumbant trike is better than what I have - I believe. I just think he doesnīt take enough factors into consideration when he complains. I could make myself fitter, which I want to do. I used to go running twice a day and was at least average. One of my ex-girlfriends (an English girl who was at the University of Richmond, Virginia on a sports scholarship) was an olympic class Athlete and we went running every day and I otherwise did so myself. I just have to get new running shoes and clothing ( not easy on just € 60 a week = $ 60 disability pension) Cycling is fun and very practical for both my friend and I who both want to travel and see things. I am so happy for him as a spastik because he now has more mobility, speed and freedom but he is a right pain in the arse at times and says horrible hurtful things like "You canīt master your own bike!", "You donīt know anything about computers!" Maybe his speedometer is faulty? I feel Iīm travelling fast enough and even overtake some other road users. I am also a Roman re-enactor and have marched about 12 miles in full armour and with marching pack and weapons. I told the other guys to walk a bit slower at the beginning so we wouldnīt get totally nackered. Eventually they did what I told them. It was my experience from walking in the mountains every two weeks that led me to say this. We were all exhausted at the end but I think even more so if they hadnīt heeded my word. Whatīs the point in getting to one destination in a tour quickly and not having the strength to reach the next and then the next over many days? I feel one has to pace oneself correctly and not have constant or compounded pain and injuries. I donīt know. Maybe I am a complete weakling and idiot? I just donīt want more pain and broken bones and near death experiences like crashing cars and falling of mountains! Maybe there is no gain without pain. But Iīve had my fair share of pain and just want to travel as cheaply as possible and be able to get out of the tent the next day and continue. Maybe someone can understand that?
What I really need to know is, do other people think I may be right as far as being at a clear disadvantage with this old 10 speed bicycle? Or am I just too unfit, weak and stupid?

BlazingPedals

Maybe what you should do is to find another group to ride with -- not necessarily to abandon your associate, but to get a second opinion and also a second source of advice, hopefully a positive source. A bike shop should be able to help you find other people to ride with; after all, most of their customers ride bikes! While you're at it, have your bike looked at. Maybe something easy to fix, like a dragging brake or a tight wheel bearing, is all that's wrong.

Averyius

I know my posting is a bit out of date now but I went riding about 3 days ago, also with my Friend / "Friend". I rode past one of those roadside digital L.E.D. speedometer displays which has been set up in a nearby street for cars. I wasnīt riding terribly fast, I think average, and I was doing 23 Km / Hr. not the 13 that my friend keeps saying. I think he canīt measure the speed so accurately and I personally donīt feel I am travelling really so slow. His Recumbant trike is I believe overall better and he doesnīt seem to accept that when the discomfort and pain starts to build up, that this also slows you down. We are going to test it out again and make comparisons. This time he has offered to let me drive his trike and his girlfriend will ride her bicycle (since he canīt) just to see if I can do better than her. Itīs not quite even and fair since her bicycle is modern and she is lighter than me, but it will be interesting nonetheless. They tell me sheīs too short to ride my bike. Overall I think folks are right about me just choosing other people to ride with as I am pretty much convinced he and they just want to put me down and gain dominance over me since he has a tremendously big head and usually thinks heīs right about things.
Thanks for your replies and the replies and help from everyone else. If your ever in Vienna, you could look me up. There are great possibilities for riding bikes here. I will eventually get round to filling out my profile with contact details.

BlazingPedals

I'm all for the N+1 theory (the ideal number of bikes to own is N+1, where N represents the number you currently own.) But there's no reason in the world why you would need a trike like his to keep up with him. If anything, I would consider his trike to be a speed liability. OTOH, pain, beyond the simple 'getting acclimated to the bike' type of pain, is a good reason to get a recumbent as your next N+1.

metro2005

Recumbent trikes are generally slower than two wheeled recumbents and not all recumbent are fast. There are very different types of recumbents, from touring to racing types just like with upright bikes. 13Kph is really slow in my opinion and i only see those low speeds with elderly people here. I think everyone with a decent bike and a normal condition should be able to manage 20kph with ease.
If you have troubles with a sore bottom or sore wrists: get yourself a recumbent