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  1. #1
    recumbent bike advocate Tractortom's Avatar
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    Bacchetta Strada vrs. Bacchetta Giro

    Hiya Kids!

    Well, I have my new Bacchetta Giro on the road, and on the ride into work this morning it was easy to make comparisons between the two. I have ridden the Strada some 1300 miles since I got it, but of course this is only my second ride on the Giro.

    The best way to explain the difference is to compare them with cars...the Strada (Bacchetta calls it one of their performance bikes) is like getting into a Corvette. It is a bit small for me, a tight fit. It is FAST, and wants to go faster than I willing to go some times. At speed it's a bit loose, and sometimes wants to get weird in the corners. The Giro is a JEEP. A bit looser, slower, easier to get going from a stop, but with less top end. The riding position is more relaxed, with more elbow bend and a bit more room to move around. The bars are higher and wider and drop farther...but it's SLOW compared to the Strada. I think much of this is the previous owners selection of Kenda Quest 65psi tires. The ride seems soft and bouncy on these tires compared to the 650-23c's running at 100+ psi on the Strada.

    My average speed on the Strada had climbed up to 17.5 or so on my 16.5 mile round trip commute. The ride into work today, the odometer showed 7.86 miles (Strada showed 8.23 usually) at an average speed of 15.9 mph. Some of this my be speedometer error???

    I'm thinking that some 100psi tires might be in order for the Giro, to decrease the rolling resistance and give me back some of my top end. Other than that, it's a fun ride and a nice bike. I still have a couple little things to do to it to get it 'tweeked' and working the way I want, but I'm planning on the Giro becoming my regular ride and will probably sell the Strada.

    Tractor Tom in Okeechobee, FL

  2. #2
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    Love my Giro26. I am considering a better wheelset also, and eventually lighter folding tires, but for now am content to muddle along in the 13's. I am considering a slightly longer bar set too, as I find I am almost fully extended. If I tip the bars back more with the setscrew, I bump my shins. I may need to experiment some with the riser length too, but of course there I am ultimately limited by cable run length and the riser itself.
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  3. #3
    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tractortom View Post
    My average speed on the Strada had climbed up to 17.5 or so on my 16.5 mile round trip commute. The ride into work today, the odometer showed 7.86 miles (Strada showed 8.23 usually) at an average speed of 15.9 mph. Some of this my be speedometer error???
    I don't know which one of them is correct, but if you adjust for the distance to be 8.23 miles, then you averaged 16.6 mph on the Giro.

    Or if the distance actually is 7.86 miles, then you were averaging 16.7 on the Strada.
    Last edited by Tom Bombadil; 04-16-12 at 11:36 AM.
    "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L'Amour

    There are two types of road bikers: bikers who are faster than me, and me. Bruce Cameron - Denver Post

  4. #4
    recumbent bike advocate Tractortom's Avatar
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    Good point Tom... I don't know which one was correct, but I have a way to check it...the bike path along Lake Okeechobee has mile markers painted on the asphalt. I can do a ten mile run and see how far off I am with each bike and then make adjustments. I know the amount of effort that I put out on the Giro is MUCH higher to keep the speed up and will be ordering some 100psi tires tonight after work.

    Thanks for the math lesson!

    Tractor Tom in Okeechobee, FL

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Once you put new tires on the Giro you will need to do a new rollout for the bike comp anyway. The more times you do the rollout seated on the bike, the more accurate you can be--just average the measurements and use that.
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  6. #6
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    I put Schwalbe Marathons on my Giro just a week ago, because I already had a cut down to the threads on the Kwests. Marathons are not built for speed, that's for sure.

    I like the Giro, but rather than buy a new wheelset, I think I'd save the coinage for a CA2.0. Those things are hot.

  7. #7
    His Brain is Gone! Tom Bombadil's Avatar
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    I have Schwalbe Marathon Racers on one of my bents. They roll very nice. But they do not provide anywhere near the flat protection of the standard Marathon.
    "Too often I would hear men boast of the miles covered that day, rarely of what they had seen." Louis L'Amour

    There are two types of road bikers: bikers who are faster than me, and me. Bruce Cameron - Denver Post

  8. #8
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    I take it you have the Giro with the small front wheel, not the Giro 26. One upgrade to consider is the Euromesh or even carbon seat both to drop the weight (more important if your route has climbing) and to get a seat intended for a more reclined, aerodynamic position.

    Since some taller riders have upgraded their Giro 26's to take 622/700C wheels, you might be able to put a larger wheel on the rear (disk brakes would make this easier), providing you could increase the front wheel diameter similarly to keep the steering geometry essentially the same. Search Bachetta's site and BentRiderOnline for details.

    As for cyclocomputer calibration, the late Sheldon Brown's site has probably the most precise, accurate and fun (you get to go for a bike ride; no fiddling with a tape measure and riding a straight line!) way of calibrating a cyclocomputer to your exact tire size and pressure: Ride a measured course (Google Maps or the like makes this relatively easy).
    Last edited by Giro; 04-17-12 at 09:53 AM.

  9. #9
    recumbent bike advocate Tractortom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giro View Post
    I take it you have the Giro with the small front wheel, not the Giro 26. One upgrade to consider is the Euromesh or even carbon seat both to drop the weight (more important if your route has climbing) and to get a seat intended for a more reclined, aerodynamic position.

    Since some taller riders have upgraded their Giro 26's to take 622/700C wheels, you might be able to put a larger wheel on the rear (disk brakes would make this easier), providing you could increase the front wheel diameter similarly to keep the steering geometry essentially the same. Search Bachetta's site and BentRiderOnline for details.

    As for cyclocomputer calibration, the late Sheldon Brown's site has probably the most precise, accurate and fun (you get to go for a bike ride; no fiddling with a tape measure and riding a straight line!) way of calibrating a cyclocomputer to your exact tire size and pressure: Ride a measured course (Google Maps or the like makes this relatively easy).
    I guess I don't know how you can tell I have a Giro 20, not the 26, but your hunch is wrong. I have the Giro 26, and I'm a LARGE rider at 6'-4" and 240lbs. I ride the Giro because I have had the euromesh seat and can't stand it, so I have made sure to stay with the recurve seat as it fits me well and doesn't rub on the edges of my pelvis like the euromesh seat does. Also, I live in Okeechobee, FL, which is as flat as a pool table, so climbing is not an issue. As near as I can tell, much of the issue is tires, so I ordered some 'cheapie' 100 psi tires to replace the Kenda 65 psi's that came on the bike. I expect things to get faster just after I get the new tires on the bike. Thanks for the link about the cyclometer calibration...I'm thinking the one on the new Giro is more accurate than the one on my Strada. I'm thinking the Strada was fast by about 5%, and so what I am getting on the Giro makes sense now.

    Many thanks,

    Tractor Tom in Okeechobee, FL

  10. #10
    Senior Member
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    Hey Tom, does your Giro26 have the fender/caliper tab projecting into the rear wheelwell? If not, I believe you can run a wide variety of 700c wheel/tire combos. If it has the tab, then you are limited to the 700x28's or smaller I think. I have not tried any 700c's on mine, or even a 650 set because I don't have any disc compatible 650c or 700c wheels...
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  11. #11
    recumbent bike advocate Tractortom's Avatar
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    You know Vic, I don't know that I want to go to the expense of going to a bigger wheel. My Strada has 650x23c tires on it, and I wanted the Giro for the 26x1.25 tires as they are twice the as big at the ones on the Strada and more robust. What I need is a hard compound tire in the 26x1.25 size with a high pressure rating (100psi) that will roll easier. I have a set on the way, and expect to have them on sometime next week. I'll post an update about it after I have a chance to test them.

    Tractor Tom in Okeechobee, FL
    Last edited by Tractortom; 04-18-12 at 01:43 PM. Reason: content

  12. #12
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    Let me know how you like the new tires and if you have any wear issues or handling. I am thinking of getting new tires later this year, and am looking at Contis and Duranos either in a 1.1 folder.
    The Monkeywrangler's Blog
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  13. #13
    Senior Member CabezaShok's Avatar
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    Can someone tell me if the Giro ATT frame can fit really fat tires like a Schwalbe Big Apple 2.35? I saw a pic of a Giro26 with 2.5"X26" MTB tires and disc brakes (had a mountain fork)...but found no info

  14. #14
    Senior Member dave5339's Avatar
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    I've had reasonable luck so far running Ritchey Top Slicks in 26 x 1.0 folders.

    I don't have a lot of miles on them yet, time will tell.

    Sempet Fi

  15. #15
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    50 mm is about the maximum on a 135 mm wide rear dropout width high racer

    Quote Originally Posted by CabezaShok View Post
    Can someone tell me if the Giro ATT frame can fit really fat tires like a Schwalbe Big Apple 2.35? I saw a pic of a Giro26 with 2.5"X26" MTB tires and disc brakes (had a mountain fork)...but found no info
    At least on my older, steel, Giro 26 the limiting factor is not the wheel fitting in the frame, the problem is that tires over 50mm wide result in the chain lightly rubbing the tire sidewall when using your largest, innermost, rear cog. Thus with a Schwalbe Big Apple 55-559 the chain rubbed on the tire sidewall while a 50-559 Big Apple (which is more like 48 mm wide) did not rub.

    The exact tire width and diameter depends some on the width of the rim it is mounted on. Schwalbe USA's web site has a nice listing of the maximum/minimum diameter and width of the Big Apple and several of their other tires when mounted on different width rims.

    Since the innermost cog's distance from the centerline is essentially constant for a given dropout width, I think a 50mm wide tire is about the limit. Mountain diamond frames do not get the chain rubbing on the sidewall at this width because the chainring is so close to the tire that the chain is held further away. Not so with the longer chainline on a recumbent high racer design like the Giro 26.
    Last edited by Giro; 04-25-12 at 05:57 PM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member CabezaShok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giro View Post
    At least on my older, steel, Giro 26 the limiting factor is not the wheel fitting in the frame, the problem is that tires over 50mm wide result in the chain lightly rubbing the tire sidewall when using your largest, innermost, rear cog. Thus with a Schwalbe Big Apple 55-559 the chain rubbed on the tire sidewall while a 50-559 Big Apple (which is more like 48 mm wide) did not rub.

    The exact tire width and diameter depends some on the width of the rim it is mounted on. Schwalbe USA's web site has a nice listing of the maximum/minimum diameter and width of the Big Apple and several of their other tires when mounted on different width rims.

    Since the innermost cog's distance from the centerline is essentially constant for a given dropout width, I think a 50mm wide tire is about the limit. Mountain diamond frames do not get the chain rubbing on the sidewall at this width because the chainring is so close to the tire that the chain is held further away. Not so with the longer chainline on a recumbent high racer design like the Giro 26.
    Thanks for the info! Just curious, did you like the ride of those 50-599 Big Apples on your Steel Giro? or did they slow you down too much?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CabezaShok View Post
    ... did you like the ride of those 50-599 Big Apples on your Steel Giro? or did they slow you down too much?
    The ride is so much more comfortable than the Continental Sport Contact I had on there. I am using an Euromesh seat reclined to about 29 degreees from horizontal and the comfort thickness (but still quite firm) Ventisit pad instead of the softer, stock filter foam pad.

    As for speed, I am not fast enough for it to make much difference. For long rides on less that ideal roads it might even be faster because the softer ride would be less fatiguing. In front, where the ride is less affected by tire volume, you can (and I have) used a narrower front tire. On the other hand, since a highracer does not provide as good a view of the road immediately in front of you, a wider tire in front is less likely to drop into and then get caught in a parallel crack in the road, causing a crash.

    I still plan on trying the 700c wheels on it because in a given tire width the larger diameter wheel combined with a bit larger volume of air in the tire should give a somewhat smoother and potentially faster ride.
    Last edited by Giro; 04-26-12 at 05:38 PM.

  18. #18
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
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    I had not heard of Ventisit and just visited their website. May I ask how much it costs? I'm still not totally reconciled to the Euromesh seat yet.

  19. #19
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    They come in different sizes for different recumbent seats and in two thicknesses, standard and comfort. They differ from the stock filter foam in that they are firmer, do not compress over the duration of a ride, do not snag clothing, and ventilate much better. Some find them too easy to move/slide/wiggle on. If clothing snagging is your major problem and you are not looking for better ventilation, Bachetta also sells a cover for the Euromesh that reportedly eliminates that problem.

    Cost is about $100. If you go to BentRiderOnline and the forum on Bacchetta's web site, these occasionally come up for sale. You can also search thise sites for how others have liked/disliked this pad and other pads. Attaching them is done by a variety of methods. I sewed Velcro on the Ventisit back with monofilament fishing line in the same locations as on the stock seat and velcro the Ventisit on the Euromesh. Others report using industrial adhesive backed Velcro in a similar manner, gluing the velro on, or alternatively using cable ties (which makes the Ventisit more difficult to remove if you want to wash it or mount seat bags or water bottle holders.

    p.s. There is another, no cost, alternative to the stock foam. Remove the stock pad, readjust the seat accordingly, and ride with no pad at all. While most do not find this comfortable due to where their shoulder blades rest on the seat frame etc., evidently some find this perfectly comfortable.

    Have you cut the bottom most forward most cable tie on the mesh? This is a very common modification; again searching the Bentrideronline and Bachettta forums has more on this.
    Last edited by Giro; 04-28-12 at 03:42 PM. Reason: clarity

  20. #20
    Cyclist radycle's Avatar
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    Giro,

    Thank you for the very informative post on seat pads!
    Have fun, wear a helmet & ride safe! (not just on the bike)

    Ralph in Indiana
    Tour Easy, Bacchetta Giro 20, SUN Tomahawk, Kingcycle SWB, Cruzbike FWD, Homebuilt FWD 20/20, ICE Adventure Trike, DEAN Ti single-speed Mt. Bike, Moots YBB, 3: Kleins, many other uprights of all kinds including a Highwheeler!

  21. #21
    Senior Member BlazingPedals's Avatar
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    Bentupcycles sells the Ventisit pads.

    My Baron with a Ventisit pad.

    If you're after just enough padding to avoid bruises, and light weight is more important than ventilation, then a Zotefoam pad is what you want.

    The 3/4" Zotefoam pad is shown, there is also a thinner 1/2" pad, which is what I use on my other bikes. They're in the $75-100 range, depending on which you get. They're made by Don "Airwolf" Smith, at bbmracing (at) yahoo.com. Don has sold hundreds of these pads.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Aushiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tractortom View Post
    I have a set on the way, and expect to have them on sometime next week. I'll post an update about it after I have a chance to test them.
    Any updates on how things have progressed with the new tyres?

    Also for anyone who might know ... how critical is the weight limit on the 26 ATT? I am probably a touch under it at the moment without a gear load. Would that be a concern?

    Thanks
    Andrew

  23. #23
    Senior Member Steamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aushiker View Post
    Any updates on how things have progressed with the new tyres?

    Also for anyone who might know ... how critical is the weight limit on the 26 ATT? I am probably a touch under it at the moment without a gear load. Would that be a concern?

    Thanks
    Andrew
    You should get the steel frame if you will be over the limit for the aluminum one.

    If going over the limit didn't violate the frame warranty, then it would only be a matter of how lucky you feel. Chances are everything would be fine if you weren't much over, and you rode with some mechanical 'sympathy'. But if there worst were to happen and the frame cracked, then Bacchetta would be within their rights to not honor the warranty and give you a new frame.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Aushiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
    You should get the steel frame if you will be over the limit for the aluminum one..
    Or stick to my diamond fame aluminum and carbon fibre bikes then as they don't seem to have a problem ... starting to wonder about the quality and/or design of the recumbents if they have to had such restrictions in place. My carbon bike has carried me over 20,000 km without drama.

    Is there something about the design of LWB recumbents that makes their frames require such a weight restriction?

    Andrew

  25. #25
    Senior Member Steamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aushiker View Post
    Is there something about the design of LWB recumbents that makes their frames require such a weight restriction?
    Most bents are not triangulated, at least not over the majority of their length (if at all). It's easy to take for granted, as a structure to support weight, how inherently wonderful a triangulated structure like a DF frame is.

    Also, partly, I think it's a 'cultural' thing. Bents always have had weight limits. The people designing them haven't ever had a problem recognizing that their frames have an upper weight limit in mind. DF companies making gossamer frames probably wish they could spec a weight limit too, but don't, because they would be the only ones doing it, and their sales would suffer if they did. So they take their lumps, and replace frames when they have to.

    If the idea of having to select a 'bent that has an adequate weight limit for you and your anticipated cargo so you can preserve a frame warranty significantly offends you, then you shouldn't buy a 'bent. Because I don't think you will find one that doesn't have a specified weight limit, and you can be sure that any 'bent with a 'serious' frame warranty will have that weight limit as a condition of the warranty. Those are the facts. I am only the messenger, don't shoot me.
    Last edited by Steamer; 01-19-13 at 08:14 PM.

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