Garfield Cat

Does anyone know if this recumbent? Any experience on this type of bike?

Lightning F-40: World's Fastest Production Bicycle

delcrossv

Yes it's a Lightning P-38 in a fairing. So inside it's this:



I have a P-38 and it's a very nice and maneuverable bike. People I know with F-40s like them. They're very fast, can be kind of hot in warm weather and can be a handful in strong winds.

Garfield Cat

When traveling with the P-38, will it fit inside a SUV like a RAV4?

delcrossv

I believe so but you'll have to fold down one of the back seats and maybe remove the front wheel- no biggie. Fits in my Suburban just fine with the middle row seat folded down.

Steamer

That's on a naked P-38, correct? I'd think the fairing and tailsock frame would add a lot to the difficulty.

I have been thinking about an F-40 for a while now, and this is a hangup of mine. The other hangup is that my lower back doesn't play nice with the super soft P-38 seat. But my back is in better condition that it was when I last tried one (about 3 years ago).

delcrossv

Correct. I wouldn't expect much difference with an F-40 though.

The front "bubble" doesn't add much to the length and the seat is the only vertical clearance issue with these.

Also Tim is making a hard shell seat that can be ordered for a P-38 if the mesh seat is an issue.

StephenH

From the website up above: "Once installed the entire fairing can be removed for open air riding, or for transporting the bike in just 5-10 minutes."

Jeff Wills

The tension on the seat fabric can be adjusted to a degree. Adding a second layer of fabric behind the lumbar area of my back helped, plus I installed a Thermarest "stadium seat" cushion in place of the foam.

Here's an old Lightning promotional video. My wife and I appear at about 8 minutes in.

delcrossv

Voila! P-38 with a hard shell seat:

Jeff Wills

^^^ and no pedals. I never understood photos of bikes with no pedals. Yeah, there's the assumption that the buyer will already have a favorite type of pedal, but why not put something generic on the bike? It just looks unfinished without them.

Steamer

I test rode a Phantom mid racer and that seat was, indeedy, just fine.

BUT, I am pretty sure it won't work with an F-40 fairing. The seat lowers your head too much - you wouldn't be able to see over the fairing, methinks.

Steamer

Yeah, that's not very good. Give me convenience or give me unfaired!

Steamer

Cool. How does it feel to be in an obsolete video?

Oh, about the seat... yeah, I'd prolly end up doing something with a lumbar pad.

delcrossv

So, looking to get to the controles really early, are you?

Garfield Cat

I can't imagine how one would compare the stress on the recumbent frame as opposed to a diamond frame. With diamond frames, sprinting puts a lot of stress on the bottom bracket. But with recumbent there doesn't seem to be a need to sprint because they don't race in the traditional sense like up the Ventoux in the TdF.

With recumbents its just long distance riding using aerodynamics to help you along. With diamond frame racing, its about how much wattage you are capable of throwing down without losing it.

When I clicked onto that YouTube video, at the end there is another video with Tim Brummer using the P-84 to go up the wall in the Solvang ride. That was impressive on how he was able to ride faster up the wall.

That brings up another point, composite materials for the frame. Lightning just has one, the P-84. Is it because carbon material in all its variations just cost too much? Both R&D and layup costs. It would seem that if one could make a recumbent frame at a lower weight, it would be an advantage in climbing and maybe handling.

Steamer

Just curious, what experience do you have riding recumbents? Cause those are some interesting thoughts, there.

Jeff Wills

Lots of maybes. Climbing speed really depends on the fitness of the rider. One of the things that 'bent riders have to put up with is that recumbent bikes are more aero, so they're faster on the flats and downhill for the same amount of power. When the road turns upward, the advantage goes away. In other words, they'll hang with the fast guys on the flats, then get dropped on the climbs.

(On one ride a few years back, I was cruising in high gear on a long, long downhill. I looked in my rear-view mirror and saw I had a line of 5 upright riders drafting me. Then there were 4. Then 3, then 2, and the last guy hung on until the road flattened out. When he pulled alongside, he looked pretty fit, but was breathing hard. He finally said he'd been trying to pull out and pass but couldn't. Made me feel pretty good for an obsolete rider.)

Jeff Wills

Hells bells, sonny... I've been into recumbents since before recumbents were cool: Aerocoupe Cyclecars

Steamer

yeah, but did you ride one before you turned 20? ( I had a DeFelice before I left high school).

delcrossv

With recumbent racing, it's also how much wattage you are capable of throwing down without losing it- it's just that the speeds are higher.

The P-38 and the carbon P-84 are both known as good climbers- the ergonomics is good, they're light (for recumbents) and have a stiff frame.

The P-38 has been out there long before carbon fiber and Tim Brummer essentially wanted to replicate the ergonomics in carbon. There's a good number of CF bents out there: M5 CHR, Bacchetta CA2, Carbent Raven etc.. They're generally lighter than their steel or Aluminum equivalents.

delcrossv

Lucky you! But #2 daughter has you beat- Gritters lowracer at age 9

Jeff Wills

Went to my first IHPSC when I was 16, then I helped start Aerocoupe Cyclecars when I was 19. Nyahh...

Steamer

Ok, ok, you got me.

Steamer

It doesn't count because you were 'there'.

I am the only cyclist in a family of non-cyclists. With no other bent riders for miles around.....

delcrossv

Ok, fair 'nuff. So for me I was 30 when I bought my Ryan. Love at first sight.