Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > > >

Rides and Races A place for posting group rides, races, and regional threads for the fixed gear and single speed forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-25-09, 09:00 AM   #501
kergin
Senior Member
 
kergin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kitchener, ON
Bikes: 1994 Proctor Townsend Reynolds 753, TT S3 True North, Kona Major Jake, Kona Honky Tonk, Marinoni Puima, Cannondale BBU
Posts: 2,029
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippered View Post
*sigh*

sadly, i have to report that i was caught in the blitz this morning. i decided to be a good little citizen and not ignore an order to pull over and now will be making a court date to fight a $180 fine for "proceeding through a red light".

apparently a standing stop to clip into pedals before entering the intersection as the light changes counts as running a light when you have a quota to fill.

what a great way to promote cycling!

What bothers me about this "awareness" event is that it's so kitsch. They don't give a damn over all the other 51 weeks of the year, and they never do anything to raise "awareness." You know what would be a genuine way to "raise awareness?" Catch someone without a bell, remind them that they need one, ask if they own one, and if they don't give one to them. A $15 token ticket wouldn't be that bad, either.

Its understandable that traffic laws need to apply to cyclists, but the issue is that what works and is *safe* for a cyclist is not always the same thing for a motorist. You can't say a standing stop is running a light, because the ability to safely stop from a standing stop on a bike has no equivalent in a car. Similarly, if you're going to have bike lanes, they *really* ought to hold priority over cars at a stop. I.E.: two cars approach a 4-way stop from perpendicular directions, and one cyclist approaches + stops at the same time as one of the cars. The cyclist, if in a bike lane, should get priority to cross the intersection before the cars.
kergin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 09:20 AM   #502
TRaffic Jammer
Dances With Cars
 
TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)
Posts: 10,527
Zippered that fuggin' sucks large..... that's worse than my being a wheel past the walk line when it turned green. Were you on College between Augusta and Bellvue when you got busted? If so that is what the police released as the extent of their "blitz". These things are just as stupid as lipstick on a pig. There serve zero purpose except a cash grab. as for changing the mind set of lawmakers and enforcers, well...... until someone gives them a giant pot of gold with which to "study" the issue, I cynically doubt anything will ever happen. I'm somewhat put off by the zeal with which the new Cyclists' Union is willing to go stand out there with the police to promote said blitz.
TRaffic Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 09:21 AM   #503
I_bRAD
Call me The Breeze
 
I_bRAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Corbyville Ontario
Bikes: 2004 Litespeed Siena, 1996 Litespeed Obed, 1992 Miele (unknown model), 1982 Meile Uno LS.
Posts: 3,699
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSvD5SM_uI4
I_bRAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 09:47 AM   #504
_K.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippered View Post
*sigh*

sadly, i have to report that i was caught in the blitz this morning. i decided to be a good little citizen and not ignore an order to pull over and now will be making a court date to fight a $180 fine for "proceeding through a red light".

apparently a standing stop to clip into pedals before entering the intersection as the light changes counts as running a light when you have a quota to fill.

what a great way to promote cycling!

You mean while the light was still red, you had lifted your foot off the ground and were rolling, ever so slowly, in preparation to clip in? Crikey that's harsh. I would think your chances to contest that would be excellent. The safety concern there, as I see it, is that brief metastable moment of getting the bike rolling; sometimes I wobble and sometimes I don't, and so I want to make sure that if a wobble happens, it happens before the cars are attempting to pass me. So I agree that the notion of what's safe for cars and bicycles is of the essence here and I am deeply disturbed that the high-school physics at issue is so evidently beyond the grasp of the people who wrote the Ontario HTA.

Did anyone see the article in the Globe and Mail about the Idaho stop? (ie a legal rollling stop for bicycles). I had no idea that there was anywhere in North America where such a law existed.
_K. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 10:10 AM   #505
I_bRAD
Call me The Breeze
 
I_bRAD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Corbyville Ontario
Bikes: 2004 Litespeed Siena, 1996 Litespeed Obed, 1992 Miele (unknown model), 1982 Meile Uno LS.
Posts: 3,699
Idaho? Youdaho!
I_bRAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 10:18 AM   #506
trueno92
Building a better Strida
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: toronto, canada
Bikes: bianchi brava 1988. fuji track 2007, 2006 Bianchi Pista, 1987 Miele and a strida knock off
Posts: 1,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippered View Post
*sigh*

sadly, i have to report that i was caught in the blitz this morning. i decided to be a good little citizen and not ignore an order to pull over and now will be making a court date to fight a $180 fine for "proceeding through a red light".

apparently a standing stop to clip into pedals before entering the intersection as the light changes counts as running a light when you have a quota to fill.

what a great way to promote cycling!


wow seriously.

I saw the DRAGNET post on craigslist, but with the pending thunderstorm i didn't ride in today..

I admit I am a bit more cautious to receive a citiation from a cycle-officer than I am of the taxi's and bad drivers......
trueno92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 10:56 AM   #507
gokiburi
...
 
gokiburi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: toronto
Bikes: sannino track, nishiki olympic conversion
Posts: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_bRAD View Post



(waiting for duppy to chime in any second now)

haha.. i met ice-t on yonge street waaaay back in the day. he had just finished filming that classic of classics: johnny mnemonic.
gokiburi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 11:06 AM   #508
TRaffic Jammer
Dances With Cars
 
TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)
Posts: 10,527
Was it 6 in the mornin'?
TRaffic Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 11:18 AM   #509
tdot-miele
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: toronto
Bikes:
Posts: 138
I'm guessin their blitz includes things like lights and bells??
tdot-miele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 11:22 AM   #510
zippered
Spazzy Member
 
zippered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: t.dot
Bikes: '05 marinoni delta, '86/87 bianchi sport s(e)x, ? kona ?, raleigh '71, specialized crossroads
Posts: 881
totally sucks! in a bad way!

thankfully i have an understanding workplace, so i'll be able to have the time to deal with this.

if it had of been a bike cop, i may have been a little less annoyed, but no - they need to spend their entire day idling a car so that they can record everything on video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _K. View Post
You mean while the light was still red, you had lifted your foot off the ground and were rolling, ever so slowly, in preparation to clip in? Crikey that's harsh. I would think your chances to contest that would be excellent. The safety concern there, as I see it, is that brief metastable moment of getting the bike rolling; sometimes I wobble and sometimes I don't, and so I want to make sure that if a wobble happens, it happens before the cars are attempting to pass me. So I agree that the notion of what's safe for cars and bicycles is of the essence here and I am deeply disturbed that the high-school physics at issue is so evidently beyond the grasp of the people who wrote the Ontario HTA.

Did anyone see the article in the Globe and Mail about the Idaho stop? (ie a legal rollling stop for bicycles). I had no idea that there was anywhere in North America where such a law existed.
i should probably be careful how many details i'm giving, just because i do intend to contest this. but yes, that will be my defense. we'll see where the judge "draws the line" as it were. boy would i ever love to bring my super-awesome-safety bike into the courtroom as evidence...

the "wobble" issue is a gray-area: i agree that i do start clipping in early so that i'm not getting passed in that process nor holding up traffic either (heaven forbid!).

i've heard of the "idaho (or insert-place-name-here) stop", but not in regards to a formal legal change. i've spoken with toronto bike cops about what they consider "stopping" and was informed that it is largely the interpretation of the officer. greaaat. again, the laws of physics and true risk-assesment is at issue, and how it affects the perception of cycling as a viable transportation method.

ps. tecumseth @ king: two other cyclists were just finished getting ticketed, but they fully admitted to have been in the wrong. i got their phone numbers as witnesses, although they aren't exactly stellar examples in the eyes of the court!
zippered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 11:25 AM   #511
jet sanchEz
Senior Member
 
jet sanchEz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 8,075
Bells are a buck at Dollarama if anyone needs a cheap one for the week.

The whole thing reeks of a scam but I do see a lot of very unsafe cyclists so maybe it is one of those Catch-22 things. I was in a friend's car late last night and a girl with no lights was riding along on the sidewalk when she decided to jump off of the curb and into traffic...she misjudged her speed and basically cut off the car in front of us. If the driver had not been paying attention, it would have been very bad. He didn't even horn her, just screeched to a stop and she sort of waved and said "Thanks!". It was very frustrating to watch....
jet sanchEz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 11:29 AM   #512
zippered
Spazzy Member
 
zippered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: t.dot
Bikes: '05 marinoni delta, '86/87 bianchi sport s(e)x, ? kona ?, raleigh '71, specialized crossroads
Posts: 881
it was 6:55am. of course he didn't congratulate me for having lights past 30 minutes after sunrise...

afaik they are including anything that is applicable in the HTA... and of course the 'highway traffic officer' had to check his code book for the correct section. (i think is was around then that he asked me to step away from the vehicle, despite asking me to approach to view the tape )

two clients of mine have also been ticked: one is a huge road hazard and got busted for having busted brakes, the other is a well-behaved rider that got busted for not having a bell. NOTE: the ticket will get thrown out if you provide a receipt for bell/light within 14 days.
zippered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 11:35 AM   #513
jet sanchEz
Senior Member
 
jet sanchEz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 8,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippered View Post
NOTE: the ticket will get thrown out if you provide a receipt for bell/light within 14 days.
Aha, this I did not know, thanks.

Also, congrats on your pending motherhood My niece is almost ready for a two-wheeler, so if you need a tricycle in the next little while, let me know
jet sanchEz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 11:36 AM   #514
TRaffic Jammer
Dances With Cars
 
TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)
Posts: 10,527
I told a cop there was no way I was taking my hand off the control/braking mechanism of my bike to signal when my yell is even louder, citing that if I were needing to ring/yell I NEED to be ready to be ignored and take evasive maneuvers as my brakes are hand controlled, not my right foot like his car. I then asked him how often he would use his horn if it was in the middle of hid dash instead of the middle of his steering wheel.
TRaffic Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 12:23 PM   #515
_K.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer View Post
I told a cop there was no way I was taking my hand off the control/braking mechanism of my bike to signal when my yell is even louder, citing that if I were needing to ring/yell I NEED to be ready to be ignored and take evasive maneuvers as my brakes are hand controlled, not my right foot like his car. I then asked him how often he would use his horn if it was in the middle of hid dash instead of the middle of his steering wheel.
Oh man that ^^^^ is so true. Duly noted for future reference.
_K. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 12:37 PM   #516
TRaffic Jammer
Dances With Cars
 
TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)
Posts: 10,527
Not responsible for any reactions by law enforcement to you being a Smart A S S
Typical response is "well the law says you need one"... f.u.c.k. bells...useless things.
TRaffic Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 12:45 PM   #517
Flimflam
Raving looney
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Bikes: 70s Leader Precision w/Shimano 600 (road), IRO Rob Roy (Fixed)
Posts: 2,482
Sucks large, zip... I rolled by at around 11 on College on Wednesday, noting my lack of bell started to worry but they just stood at the side and ignored me. *phew*

Try taking a photo along with you and just mention that you are a safety concious individual with many years of urban riding experience, citing the photo as evidence of your precautions and methods (if there's any forum to disclose/present that - I've not been to traffic court)
Flimflam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 02:55 PM   #518
tdot-miele
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: toronto
Bikes:
Posts: 138
does anyone actually know what the official deal is with brakeless fixed in terms of the HTA?? I've asked a few cops and they all have different answers...
tdot-miele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 02:58 PM   #519
TRaffic Jammer
Dances With Cars
 
TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)
Posts: 10,527
^^^then that inconsistency is your ticket to ride^^^
Failure to consistently and fairly enforce the law means they can't do it at all b/c they don't know.
*this is why I want to make that little booklet for riders but have all information verified by a judge or some such legal eagle, so they can hand it to the more misinformed of the uniformed*
TRaffic Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 03:10 PM   #520
tdot-miele
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: toronto
Bikes:
Posts: 138
^^ from my experience with MV tickets from my jeep... that grey-ish part of the law is exactly what allows for the ignorant cops interpretation of the HTA. With no readily available set precedence indicated through disclosure it is basically left up to the cops discretion; vis a vis the courts implementatoin of that discretion as a ruling (basically the stupid cops word of how they PERCEIVE your actions in accordance with the law). One on one against a cop in court you have maybe a 10% chance... it's B.S. but that's how it is.

The only loophole i've ever heard of is fileing for disclosure from an OPP stop; where the officer is driving a new style cruiser. They MUST include a copy of video footage evidence of the entire stop in their surrendering of disclosure. If not, then the case is dismissed on a technicality. I learned this one fighting a bunch of tickets i got on the 400 with my jeep...

For the record i'm 21W-2L with HTA infractions...
tdot-miele is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 03:18 PM   #521
TRaffic Jammer
Dances With Cars
 
TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Canada
Bikes: TBL Onyx Pro(ss converted), Pake SS (starting to look kinda pimped)
Posts: 10,527
so how you interpret the laws as it's written is irrelevant as well ? hmmm if I get three differing answers from three differing cops I want that law cleared up because it obviously hasn't been tested in court.

21 WINS... what the hell do you get up to in your jeep to fight 21 charges man?
TRaffic Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 04:12 PM   #522
shapelike
Don't smoke, Mike.
 
shapelike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Bikes: Devinci Tosca, IRO Rob Roy
Posts: 3,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flimflam View Post
shapelike
Don't smoke, Mike.

How's that working out for you... damn near a year, no?
I haven't smoked since ... fall of 2007. For the first year (literally, a whole year) I was still getting lots of cravings but I never smoked after I quit. Definitely hasn't been effortless and that's why the text hasn't changed. I'm at the point now where it would be really easy to say "oh, I could just have one and it wouldn't matter" but that's not how this works.
shapelike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 04:20 PM   #523
iherald
Senior Member
 
iherald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,276
Awesome job Mike!
iherald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 04:21 PM   #524
shapelike
Don't smoke, Mike.
 
shapelike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Toronto
Bikes: Devinci Tosca, IRO Rob Roy
Posts: 3,295
The first hip hop album I owned as a kid was Licensed to Ill. The second - and I'm not kidding - was:





Thanks to my big sister for hooking me up with that one (after *she* saw Ice-T in concert - how did that happen in Ontario?!).
shapelike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-09, 04:33 PM   #525
iherald
Senior Member
 
iherald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,276
Does Power feature the always great LGBNF?
iherald is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:48 AM.