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  1. #501
    Senior Member kergin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zippered View Post
    *sigh*

    sadly, i have to report that i was caught in the blitz this morning. i decided to be a good little citizen and not ignore an order to pull over and now will be making a court date to fight a $180 fine for "proceeding through a red light".

    apparently a standing stop to clip into pedals before entering the intersection as the light changes counts as running a light when you have a quota to fill.

    what a great way to promote cycling!

    What bothers me about this "awareness" event is that it's so kitsch. They don't give a damn over all the other 51 weeks of the year, and they never do anything to raise "awareness." You know what would be a genuine way to "raise awareness?" Catch someone without a bell, remind them that they need one, ask if they own one, and if they don't give one to them. A $15 token ticket wouldn't be that bad, either.

    Its understandable that traffic laws need to apply to cyclists, but the issue is that what works and is *safe* for a cyclist is not always the same thing for a motorist. You can't say a standing stop is running a light, because the ability to safely stop from a standing stop on a bike has no equivalent in a car. Similarly, if you're going to have bike lanes, they *really* ought to hold priority over cars at a stop. I.E.: two cars approach a 4-way stop from perpendicular directions, and one cyclist approaches + stops at the same time as one of the cars. The cyclist, if in a bike lane, should get priority to cross the intersection before the cars.

  2. #502
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    Zippered that fuggin' sucks large..... that's worse than my being a wheel past the walk line when it turned green. Were you on College between Augusta and Bellvue when you got busted? If so that is what the police released as the extent of their "blitz". These things are just as stupid as lipstick on a pig. There serve zero purpose except a cash grab. as for changing the mind set of lawmakers and enforcers, well...... until someone gives them a giant pot of gold with which to "study" the issue, I cynically doubt anything will ever happen. I'm somewhat put off by the zeal with which the new Cyclists' Union is willing to go stand out there with the police to promote said blitz.

  3. #503
    Call me The Breeze I_bRAD's Avatar
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  4. #504
    _K.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zippered View Post
    *sigh*

    sadly, i have to report that i was caught in the blitz this morning. i decided to be a good little citizen and not ignore an order to pull over and now will be making a court date to fight a $180 fine for "proceeding through a red light".

    apparently a standing stop to clip into pedals before entering the intersection as the light changes counts as running a light when you have a quota to fill.

    what a great way to promote cycling!

    You mean while the light was still red, you had lifted your foot off the ground and were rolling, ever so slowly, in preparation to clip in? Crikey that's harsh. I would think your chances to contest that would be excellent. The safety concern there, as I see it, is that brief metastable moment of getting the bike rolling; sometimes I wobble and sometimes I don't, and so I want to make sure that if a wobble happens, it happens before the cars are attempting to pass me. So I agree that the notion of what's safe for cars and bicycles is of the essence here and I am deeply disturbed that the high-school physics at issue is so evidently beyond the grasp of the people who wrote the Ontario HTA.

    Did anyone see the article in the Globe and Mail about the Idaho stop? (ie a legal rollling stop for bicycles). I had no idea that there was anywhere in North America where such a law existed.

  5. #505
    Call me The Breeze I_bRAD's Avatar
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    Idaho? Youdaho!

  6. #506
    Building a better Strida
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    Quote Originally Posted by zippered View Post
    *sigh*

    sadly, i have to report that i was caught in the blitz this morning. i decided to be a good little citizen and not ignore an order to pull over and now will be making a court date to fight a $180 fine for "proceeding through a red light".

    apparently a standing stop to clip into pedals before entering the intersection as the light changes counts as running a light when you have a quota to fill.

    what a great way to promote cycling!


    wow seriously.

    I saw the DRAGNET post on craigslist, but with the pending thunderstorm i didn't ride in today..

    I admit I am a bit more cautious to receive a citiation from a cycle-officer than I am of the taxi's and bad drivers......

  7. #507
    ... gokiburi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I_bRAD View Post



    (waiting for duppy to chime in any second now)

    haha.. i met ice-t on yonge street waaaay back in the day. he had just finished filming that classic of classics: johnny mnemonic.

  8. #508
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    Was it 6 in the mornin'?

  9. #509
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    I'm guessin their blitz includes things like lights and bells??

  10. #510
    Spazzy Member zippered's Avatar
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    totally sucks! in a bad way!

    thankfully i have an understanding workplace, so i'll be able to have the time to deal with this.

    if it had of been a bike cop, i may have been a little less annoyed, but no - they need to spend their entire day idling a car so that they can record everything on video.

    Quote Originally Posted by _K. View Post
    You mean while the light was still red, you had lifted your foot off the ground and were rolling, ever so slowly, in preparation to clip in? Crikey that's harsh. I would think your chances to contest that would be excellent. The safety concern there, as I see it, is that brief metastable moment of getting the bike rolling; sometimes I wobble and sometimes I don't, and so I want to make sure that if a wobble happens, it happens before the cars are attempting to pass me. So I agree that the notion of what's safe for cars and bicycles is of the essence here and I am deeply disturbed that the high-school physics at issue is so evidently beyond the grasp of the people who wrote the Ontario HTA.

    Did anyone see the article in the Globe and Mail about the Idaho stop? (ie a legal rollling stop for bicycles). I had no idea that there was anywhere in North America where such a law existed.
    i should probably be careful how many details i'm giving, just because i do intend to contest this. but yes, that will be my defense. we'll see where the judge "draws the line" as it were. boy would i ever love to bring my super-awesome-safety bike into the courtroom as evidence...

    the "wobble" issue is a gray-area: i agree that i do start clipping in early so that i'm not getting passed in that process nor holding up traffic either (heaven forbid!).

    i've heard of the "idaho (or insert-place-name-here) stop", but not in regards to a formal legal change. i've spoken with toronto bike cops about what they consider "stopping" and was informed that it is largely the interpretation of the officer. greaaat. again, the laws of physics and true risk-assesment is at issue, and how it affects the perception of cycling as a viable transportation method.

    ps. tecumseth @ king: two other cyclists were just finished getting ticketed, but they fully admitted to have been in the wrong. i got their phone numbers as witnesses, although they aren't exactly stellar examples in the eyes of the court!
    "Never do anything that you wouldn't want to have to explain to the paramedics."

    "His first words were 'did you bike today?' I hesitated before admitting that I had, thinking I was going to get a lecture on how bad the roads were and how I shouldn't try to bike home. Instead he said 'man, you're lucky! I've been sitting in traffic for over 1/2 hr, and I've only gone about 2 miles. Some guy on a bike passed me about 20 minutes ago and I'm sure he's home by now'."

  11. #511
    Senior Member jet sanchEz's Avatar
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    Bells are a buck at Dollarama if anyone needs a cheap one for the week.

    The whole thing reeks of a scam but I do see a lot of very unsafe cyclists so maybe it is one of those Catch-22 things. I was in a friend's car late last night and a girl with no lights was riding along on the sidewalk when she decided to jump off of the curb and into traffic...she misjudged her speed and basically cut off the car in front of us. If the driver had not been paying attention, it would have been very bad. He didn't even horn her, just screeched to a stop and she sort of waved and said "Thanks!". It was very frustrating to watch....

  12. #512
    Spazzy Member zippered's Avatar
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    it was 6:55am. of course he didn't congratulate me for having lights past 30 minutes after sunrise...

    afaik they are including anything that is applicable in the HTA... and of course the 'highway traffic officer' had to check his code book for the correct section. (i think is was around then that he asked me to step away from the vehicle, despite asking me to approach to view the tape )

    two clients of mine have also been ticked: one is a huge road hazard and got busted for having busted brakes, the other is a well-behaved rider that got busted for not having a bell. NOTE: the ticket will get thrown out if you provide a receipt for bell/light within 14 days.
    "Never do anything that you wouldn't want to have to explain to the paramedics."

    "His first words were 'did you bike today?' I hesitated before admitting that I had, thinking I was going to get a lecture on how bad the roads were and how I shouldn't try to bike home. Instead he said 'man, you're lucky! I've been sitting in traffic for over 1/2 hr, and I've only gone about 2 miles. Some guy on a bike passed me about 20 minutes ago and I'm sure he's home by now'."

  13. #513
    Senior Member jet sanchEz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zippered View Post
    NOTE: the ticket will get thrown out if you provide a receipt for bell/light within 14 days.
    Aha, this I did not know, thanks.

    Also, congrats on your pending motherhood My niece is almost ready for a two-wheeler, so if you need a tricycle in the next little while, let me know

  14. #514
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    I told a cop there was no way I was taking my hand off the control/braking mechanism of my bike to signal when my yell is even louder, citing that if I were needing to ring/yell I NEED to be ready to be ignored and take evasive maneuvers as my brakes are hand controlled, not my right foot like his car. I then asked him how often he would use his horn if it was in the middle of hid dash instead of the middle of his steering wheel.

  15. #515
    _K.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRaffic Jammer View Post
    I told a cop there was no way I was taking my hand off the control/braking mechanism of my bike to signal when my yell is even louder, citing that if I were needing to ring/yell I NEED to be ready to be ignored and take evasive maneuvers as my brakes are hand controlled, not my right foot like his car. I then asked him how often he would use his horn if it was in the middle of hid dash instead of the middle of his steering wheel.
    Oh man that ^^^^ is so true. Duly noted for future reference.

  16. #516
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    Not responsible for any reactions by law enforcement to you being a Smart A S S
    Typical response is "well the law says you need one"... f.u.c.k. bells...useless things.

  17. #517
    Raving looney
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    Sucks large, zip... I rolled by at around 11 on College on Wednesday, noting my lack of bell started to worry but they just stood at the side and ignored me. *phew*

    Try taking a photo along with you and just mention that you are a safety concious individual with many years of urban riding experience, citing the photo as evidence of your precautions and methods (if there's any forum to disclose/present that - I've not been to traffic court)

  18. #518
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    does anyone actually know what the official deal is with brakeless fixed in terms of the HTA?? I've asked a few cops and they all have different answers...

  19. #519
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    ^^^then that inconsistency is your ticket to ride^^^
    Failure to consistently and fairly enforce the law means they can't do it at all b/c they don't know.
    *this is why I want to make that little booklet for riders but have all information verified by a judge or some such legal eagle, so they can hand it to the more misinformed of the uniformed*

  20. #520
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    ^^ from my experience with MV tickets from my jeep... that grey-ish part of the law is exactly what allows for the ignorant cops interpretation of the HTA. With no readily available set precedence indicated through disclosure it is basically left up to the cops discretion; vis a vis the courts implementatoin of that discretion as a ruling (basically the stupid cops word of how they PERCEIVE your actions in accordance with the law). One on one against a cop in court you have maybe a 10% chance... it's B.S. but that's how it is.

    The only loophole i've ever heard of is fileing for disclosure from an OPP stop; where the officer is driving a new style cruiser. They MUST include a copy of video footage evidence of the entire stop in their surrendering of disclosure. If not, then the case is dismissed on a technicality. I learned this one fighting a bunch of tickets i got on the 400 with my jeep...

    For the record i'm 21W-2L with HTA infractions...

  21. #521
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    so how you interpret the laws as it's written is irrelevant as well ? hmmm if I get three differing answers from three differing cops I want that law cleared up because it obviously hasn't been tested in court.

    21 WINS... what the hell do you get up to in your jeep to fight 21 charges man?

  22. #522
    Don't smoke, Mike. shapelike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flimflam View Post
    shapelike
    Don't smoke, Mike.

    How's that working out for you... damn near a year, no?
    I haven't smoked since ... fall of 2007. For the first year (literally, a whole year) I was still getting lots of cravings but I never smoked after I quit. Definitely hasn't been effortless and that's why the text hasn't changed. I'm at the point now where it would be really easy to say "oh, I could just have one and it wouldn't matter" but that's not how this works.

  23. #523
    Senior Member iherald's Avatar
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    Awesome job Mike!
    I rode CanadaWide for Cancer in 2006! I rode 6850km and raised over $110 000 for kids with cancer. Check out the journal at: http://www.cyclingforcancer.ca

  24. #524
    Don't smoke, Mike. shapelike's Avatar
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    The first hip hop album I owned as a kid was Licensed to Ill. The second - and I'm not kidding - was:





    Thanks to my big sister for hooking me up with that one (after *she* saw Ice-T in concert - how did that happen in Ontario?!).

  25. #525
    Senior Member iherald's Avatar
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    Does Power feature the always great LGBNF?
    I rode CanadaWide for Cancer in 2006! I rode 6850km and raised over $110 000 for kids with cancer. Check out the journal at: http://www.cyclingforcancer.ca

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