RNAV

Apparently you didn't see what I fixed. You and I have different opinions, which is fine -- but they're opinions nonetheless. In my opinion, tubeless does have improved ride quality over traditional clinchers, which makes the additional installation difficulty worth it to me. But I'm not the one going around dispensing my opinion as incontrovertible fact, which is the point I'm taking you to task on.

rbrsddn

Tubeless absolutely have improved ride quality over the same sized tire and tube combo. it is a very noticible improvement. Enough that I won't b going back to tubes. it might not be worth it to some, but it is for me.

DrIsotope

I've not found a single drawback to tubeless (another Schwalbe One owner here) and loathe even the idea of going back to tubes. Comfortable, fast-rolling, and seal 90% of punctures with minimal loss of pressure. I had a cut on the rear at least 1/4" across, it sealed up, and I proceeded to immediately put another 50 miles on it @ 55psi (700x28.) I'm currently running 80F/75R and have about 500 miles on them. Absolutely brilliant tires, worth every penny, and any extra goopy sealant based hassles.

But as has been alluded to here in previous posts, none of the road riders I occasionally ride with could be made to bother. They like their tubes and puncture-resistant 700x25s that weigh more than my 700x28s, I guess.

gregf83 

I have no experience with tubeless other than observing someone in our group who had a puncture that was too big for the sealant to handle. I don't recall how he handled it but I can imagine having to put a tube into a tire filled with goup might be a little messy.

my questions:
1. How often do you need to add goup to the tire. If I put away my winter bike and come back to it 6 months from now do I just add more goup or would I need to clean out the old goup?
2. How messy is it if you have to use a tube?
3. Is there any data on rolling resistance of tubeless vs a decent clincher like a 4000s?

fureshi

It's been two years for me on tubeless and a couple thousand miles with no problems at all. On Shimano WH6700 wheels, the lower tire pressure gave a much better ride and let me run 80psi f/r compared to 105psi with clincher/tube on the same wheels. As far as flats go, so far so good. I haven't had a puncture that didn't seal it self. The only thing that gave me a little trouble was the installation of the tire and getting it to seat in the wheel. Minor inconvenience but overall well worth the effort. My future projects will all be running tubeless as well since i can't see any good reasons to go back to clinchers and tubes.

gsa103

The MTB community has gone almost exclusively tubeless. The benefits are real. All major manufacturers now make tubeless mountain tires.

Rolling resistance is comparable to quality clincher with latex tubes, and lower than butyl tubes. My tubeless tires feel great at 75/85 psi, clincher felt flat.

UnfilteredDregs

Tubeless is a definite improvement in ride quality over tubed clinchers; and for all intents and purposes, they eliminate any typical flat. The only thing that takes out a tubeless tire is a puncture or sidewall tear so bad that in effectively destroys the tire.

So, unless you enjoy being one of those momos who has to stop and change a tube, sometimes multiple times in a ride...then tubeless is superior in almost every way to the typical clincher; the feel does come quite close to tubular. The great thing about sealant is that in the end tread wear is the primary factor in determining tire life. Lots of small cuts and punctures just don't matter.

Fact of the matter is the best rolling tubular tires are extremely fragile. In the end tubeless are the far more reliable and performing tire.

If I had pristine roads to ride on...I'd definitely be out on tubular...but I have no idea where this mystical pristine tarmac is.

UnfilteredDregs

....As far as installation "difficulty" goes...I can mount any tubeless tire for the first time to a tubeless ready rim in 15 minutes or less. Including setting the bead, deflating, adding sealant and reinflating. You have to size your tire according the the internal width of the rim.

UnfilteredDregs

I tracked pressure and average times over a few segments... when I noticed my times going down I upped the psi accordingly....

Phlorida

What size tires are you running? In the 25/28mm space I have not had a great experience. At your suggestion I am currently running Schwalbe One 25's. With the Hutchinson's I found that after 500-700 miles I was spending a lot more time patching tires than I ever did with tubed tires.

UnfilteredDregs

What sealant are you using?

Planemaker

Another tubeless convert here. I have been riding gravel since lat fall and went to tubeless about 5 weeks ago at the recommendation of a new riding group. The difference was huge, I saw a marked increase in speed and the comfort was outstanding. I rode my road bike for the first time since December yesterday and and after every crack I hit I was thinking about my new tubeless rims sitting in the garage waiting the LBS to get Schwalbe One's in stock.

FYI - The sealant of choice around here is Orange Seal

Phlorida

The same sealant that you use, Orange Sealant. It has worked really well. The issue is that after a nominal amount of miles it works all of the time. I recently cleaned the bike and the amount of dried latex in every nook was incredible. My favorite jersey is permanently stained with latex as well.

txags92

Ok, here is my question that I have never seen an answer to. I see the statements claiming that a given tubeless tire is lighter than a clincher plus tube. But what about after you add the sealant? Aren't you giving away any potential weight savings by adding sealant to the tire? I am not a weight weenie at all, but it has always seemed weird to me to see people compare apples to oranges that way. If you are comparing one to the other, and using sealant instead of a tube, you should compare the weights including whatever is inside the tire.

Also, I would be interested in the answer to the question somebody else asked above. How often (if at all) do you need to add fresh sealant? And do you have to remove the tire and take a bunch of the old gunk out before you do? If you don't remove the old stuff and you keep adding sealant, how long before you are riding around with a big (and really heavy) slab of dried goop in your tires?

Hiro11

The main problem I had was mounting tires. I bought a set of Shimano WH6700 wheels and a set of Hutchinson tire a few years ago and I simply could not get the damned things mounted. I pushed the beads carefully into the center channel, wore grippy gloves and even ended up using levers. After I snapped the second lever, I simply gave up and returned the tires. Maybe things are better these days, maybe the combination I was trying to use was particularly tight.

Also, tubeless might have very slightly lower rolling resistance than a standard clincher with a butyl tube, but it's a pretty marginal difference and not all tubeless perform better than all clinchers.

Phlorida

I believe that Orange recommends adding an ounce after three months. I don't believe that Orange has the dried goop issue but I've actually never had a tubeless tire last long enough the share long term experience.

lyrictenor1

The reason he brought up clinchers is because the OP is currently riding clinchers and wanted to know whether or not it would be worth it to switch to tubeless. Tubulars weren't even considered by the OP based on his initial post.

Trsnrtr

I ran 90R/85F today and that was a very nice feel; the bike cornered and rolled well. This may be my magic sweet spot.

UnfilteredDregs

I'm tossing 2 28mm Hutchinson Sectors after 4400 miles in about a week. I weigh 205#, and usually do 75f/90r psi. Every 3 months I add 1 oz of Orange Seal to each tire unless I've had punctures, then I may add earlier, the amount dependent upon how significant the puncture was...

I ride up here in NYC and the outlying areas, meaning the 9W corridor, Harriman State Park, Joisey, Westchester, Putnam & Dutchess counties as well as Connecticut.

NYC roads are horrid in terms of road trash and such... In these last 4400 miles I've had 2 front tire punctures and maybe 5 rear that I know about. I've come home and noticed sealant on the bike and had no idea of a puncture occurring so...

I have no idea what your roads are like but I can't imagine them being worse than the South Bronx and such...

What pressure are you rolling at and what do you weigh?

UnfilteredDregs

25mm? What do you weigh? I'm going to throw 25mm ONE's on my RAIL 52s when I get them...

tekhna

I'd probably go tubeless if my rims were compatible. But they're not.

bt

pardon me, I thought you were confusing tubular with tubeless.

my bad

Phlorida

I regularly do business in the Bronx/Yonkers area so I am in a position to agree with you. The roads that I ride are near perfection compared to what you are describing so I don't get it either. I am 165# and typically run 95# rear and 90# front. I'm running with Shimano Ultegra 6800 wheels.

My Hutch Sector 28's were everything that I expected until I hit about 500 miles. I had to repair a larger puncture and couldn't believe the number of cuts in the tire when I repaired it. Soon after I started getting fairly regular punctures. I took them off and started doing repairs but the rubber was so thin at 750 miles that I lost confidence in them and replaced them. I'm glad to mail them to you if you think that you could squeeze some life out of them.

I went with Hutch Fusion 25's and the experience wasn't much different other than than I got about 1100 miles out of them before I was living the latex dream again. The Orange Seal spray is actually quite pretty in the right light.

I'm now running the Schwalbe One 25's. I've got about 500 miles on them and they have been perfect. If these don't get something closer to your experience I will go back to tubed tires. The absence of a protective layer found on good clinchers seems to be the issue to me. Based on my experience the claimed ability to seal .25" punctures seems laughable.

UnfilteredDregs

Well, it's good to know how effective Orange Seal is! lmao.

Sounds like you're having problems with Hutch rubber, I had a problem with two Sectors as well, the bead was separating from the carcass...defect, I got warranty replacements. This pair of Sectors have been great...but I've switched recently too the Schwalbe rubber, so, time will tell there.

I definitively have a large number of cuts in my tires; It doesn't matter in my experience. But, sidewall tear, or a big enough hole on a road tire...it's done IMO. They can't be patched, even though there's patch kits for tubeless. I did it once and the tire basically blew out the patch about 200 miles later.

.25" is a big hole, a tube would work it's way through that without a boot...and although I had a tear where the sealant was able to hold the tire at 40-50psi, the tire was done. That's the one I tried to patch, and I got another 200 miles (maybe..) out of it.

The way I see it the sealant protects me from punctures that would take out a tube and saves me the time and bull**** involved. Anything significant and it may get you home, but the tire is toast.

At your weight I'd go quite a bit lower on pressure. You could probably get away with 65f/85r. I have the distinct anecdotal impression that harder tires puncture more readily.

Trsnrtr

Yes, 25s, Schwalbe Ones. 195#