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Yet another BB30 creak thread......(sigh).....

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Yet another BB30 creak thread......(sigh).....

Old 03-30-15, 08:06 AM
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speaking as someone who has had many bb30 cranks, some have creaked and some have not. i have been able to fix them all with the suggestions above, but I have also found creaks elsewhere (as mentioned). when you have bb30 cranks, they are the "go to" culprit, but checking the other possible culprits can save you a lot of time and hassle. skewers were the problem two times, once they needed to be greased, and the other time they just needed to be thrown away.
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Old 03-30-15, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by motorthings
speaking as someone who has had many bb30 cranks, some have creaked and some have not. i have been able to fix them all with the suggestions above, but I have also found creaks elsewhere (as mentioned). when you have bb30 cranks, they are the "go to" culprit, but checking the other possible culprits can save you a lot of time and hassle. skewers were the problem two times, once they needed to be greased, and the other time they just needed to be thrown away.
Yup...and squeaking carbon seat post is very common. Best test with riding out of the saddle. Carbon bikes are like a speaker membrane. Sound really propagates and hard to determine where its coming from.
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Old 03-30-15, 08:19 AM
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i think on CPtips there is a list of all the things you can/should grease to chase down a creak. i think it mentioned every single possible part on a bike.
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Old 03-30-15, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
You mention you service your bikes and you ask what crank preload is? This is no slight on you. But crank preload is bike maintenance/build 101. Your maintenance efforts are misdirected if not focused on the BB which requires more attention than any other aspect of the bike including headset and wheel bearings.
BB30 doesn't really have adjustable pre-load like, say, Shimano Hollowtech cranks or headsets do though does it? Pre-load is supplied by the wave washer, and the cranks tightened down onto that to a specified torque. I suppose you can adjust pre-load by adding washers.
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Old 03-30-15, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dr_lha
Green Loctite is the way to go, it fixed up my BB30 (so far). But in my opinion BB30 is inherently flawed design. Failing in under a year from a factory install is not that uncommon in my experience, mine did (although not a C'Dale) and my friend's Super Six Evo's failed after about 2000 miles. Both of us take good care of our bikes.

That said if you complain about BB30 on the forum it will lead to two things. 1) People chiming in who "never had a problem" and 2) People telling you didn't fix it properly if you still get creaks. You really can't win with BB30, this is why I went old school English threaded on my new bike!

Yuuup. It's a self-fulfilling train of thought.

Never had a problem? Clearly it's installed properly.
Gotta a creak? It's not installed properly.
Gotta a creak and it's installed properly? It's not installed properly. Use X, Y, Z methods, or voodoo.
Gotta a creak and it's installed properly and X,Y,Z and voodoo didn't work? Buy Praxis, or whatever.

It's not the design, it's the installation. Always. Except when it's some adaptor. So spend more money!
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Old 03-30-15, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
Yup...and squeaking carbon seat post is very common. Best test with riding out of the saddle. Carbon bikes are like a speaker membrane. Sound really propagates and hard to determine where its coming from.
LOL...a friend of mine had a popping sound when the cranks hit a certain spot. He could not figure it out, so I rode the bike. Originally I thought it was the seat post, or seat...stood up it stopped. Sat down, there it was. Pulled the seat post, did the whole deal...popping still there. It was the bottom bracket.

Cracked me up.

Speaker membrane...LOL.
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Old 03-30-15, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
Honestly, BB30 is perhaps the simplest BB ever created and completely reliable with adequate maintenance. But if you haven't pulled your crank in one year, unless your bike is a garage queen and unridden, it hasn't been adequately maintenanced. Btw, if you ride twice a week in the rain, the crank should come off every month at least.
I agree with this 100%.^^^

Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 03-30-15, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
A no. of things:
- You haven't gotten the memo on how often to service a crank. How many miles do you ride in a year? If you don't ride in the rain, which I presume you do from time to time, the crank (not bearings) should come off every 3K miles...for inspection of the bearings. Clean grime, re-grease bearings from inside depending on dust seals obscuring the balls and a light coating of grease on the crank spindle and reassemble.


What crank is on the bike?
Crank is FSA-K Light (as mentioned in the OP)

And, no, I haven't gotten the memo about servicing crank. Once torqued properly (especially a crankset like that in a sealed-cartridge bearing) I can't imagine they'd need servicing. (Kind of like front wheel bearings on a modern vehicle, super-wazoo dust seals not withstanding)

Originally Posted by Campag4life


You mention you service your bikes and you ask what crank preload is? This is no slight on you. But crank preload is bike maintenance/build 101. Your maintenance efforts are misdirected if not focused on the BB which requires more attention than any other aspect of the bike including headset and wheel bearings.
Then on this I was definitely uninformed. Again, I know a great number of folks who don't even pull their chain in a year's time, much less headset or cranks. My headset maintenance, in fact, was only to troubleshoot another "tick/crick" that turned out to reside in the spacer stack anyway, thus never truly requiring anything be done.

I do ride in So Cal so we're fairly dry, with a rare ride in the rain a couple times per season, perhaps. Otherwise, again, with my knowledge of bearings as they exist in everything from hubs, discs, drums and CV's....I wouldn't have otherwise thought a "sealed" environment would need monthly or even semi- monthly servicing. (Maybe the bike industry should employ "bearing buddies" a la the boat trailer industry)

Originally Posted by Campag4life
Good you are OK with BB30 in spite of your woes. You will get it resolved. Honestly, BB30 is perhaps the simplest BB ever created and completely reliable with adequate maintenance. But if you haven't pulled your crank in one year, unless your bike is a garage queen and unridden, it hasn't been adequately maintenanced. Btw, if you ride twice a week in the rain, the crank should come off every month at least.

I will certainly pull the cranks and check 'em out. And if it even needs be said, I will do what I feel is necessary to ensure this is not something that necessarily needs to be revisited as often as perhaps some might think. Again, I truly don't think it should be so.

And also, thanks for coming up w/ the green loctite solution. I truly did search quite a bit & there are plenty of whacky solutions out there but if yours is the right one....then many thanks!! (It shouldn't required us folks to do that with the plethora of engineering available to folks like C'dale.

Originally Posted by dr_lha
BB30 doesn't really have adjustable pre-load like, say, Shimano Hollowtech cranks or headsets do though does it? Pre-load is supplied by the wave washer, and the cranks tightened down onto that to a specified torque. I suppose you can adjust pre-load by adding washers.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. And, yes, what I would have mentioned to Campag is that there is no "preload" per se as I liken "preload" to what we see in loose-bearing cup/cone applications and....again....wheel-type bearings found on modern vehicles. (If not the bike industry's headset assembly which requires a VERY finicky touch in preload)

Thanks again to all!!! Much good info!

P.S. To answer earlier about mileage.....Interestingly enough, I'm at about 9 months into this bike and almost exactly 3,000 miles.

Last edited by loimpact; 03-30-15 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 03-30-15, 10:43 AM
  #34  
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+1

Those and a 4 1/2" long, 5/8" diameter bolt with matching nut are what I used.

Originally Posted by dr_lha
The Park BB30 bearing removal tool comes with the bearing press adapters. That plus a 8 dollar home made bearing press worked fine for me.
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Old 03-30-15, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by dr_lha
BB30 doesn't really have adjustable pre-load like, say, Shimano Hollowtech cranks or headsets do though does it? Pre-load is supplied by the wave washer, and the cranks tightened down onto that to a specified torque. I suppose you can adjust pre-load by adding washers.
Not right either or you weren't clear. There is no 'I suppose'. All BB30 cranks have preload. Many falsely believe preload is pre-determined. It shouldn't be. The BB may have come from the factory less than ideal. In fact a good chance it was. Majority of BB30 cranks have wave washers for preload but it is the spacing of the wave washer that determines where it is in its compression/force relative to deflection. The rest of BB30 cranks are mechanical preload which have adjustable preload by way of an expanding collar . Preload is one of the most important facets of crank set up influencing bearing durability and noise and a common problem why bearings can wear out prematurely and/or make noise.

Last edited by Campag4life; 03-30-15 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 03-30-15, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by loimpact
Crank is FSA-K Light (as mentioned in the OP)

And, no, I haven't gotten the memo about servicing crank. Once torqued properly (especially a crankset like that in a sealed-cartridge bearing) I can't imagine they'd need servicing. (Kind of like front wheel bearings on a modern vehicle, super-wazoo dust seals not withstanding)



Then on this I was definitely uninformed. Again, I know a great number of folks who don't even pull their chain in a year's time, much less headset or cranks. My headset maintenance, in fact, was only to troubleshoot another "tick/crick" that turned out to reside in the spacer stack anyway, thus never truly requiring anything be done.

I do ride in So Cal so we're fairly dry, with a rare ride in the rain a couple times per season, perhaps. Otherwise, again, with my knowledge of bearings as they exist in everything from hubs, discs, drums and CV's....I wouldn't have otherwise thought a "sealed" environment would need monthly or even semi- monthly servicing. (Maybe the bike industry should employ "bearing buddies" a la the boat trailer industry)




I will certainly pull the cranks and check 'em out. And if it even needs be said, I will do what I feel is necessary to ensure this is not something that necessarily needs to be revisited as often as perhaps some might think. Again, I truly don't think it should be so.

And also, thanks for coming up w/ the green loctite solution. I truly did search quite a bit & there are plenty of whacky solutions out there but if yours is the right one....then many thanks!! (It shouldn't required us folks to do that with the plethora of engineering available to folks like C'dale.



Thanks for the vote of confidence. And, yes, what I would have mentioned to Campag is that there is no "preload" per se as I liken "preload" to what we see in loose-bearing cup/cone applications and....again....wheel-type bearings found on modern vehicles. (If not the bike industry's headset assembly which requires a VERY finicky touch in preload)

Thanks again to all!!! Much good info!

P.S. To answer earlier about mileage.....Interestingly enough, I'm at about 9 months into this bike and almost exactly 3,000 miles.
Notice they are called dust and not water and grime seals. The dynamic is...with mileage, grease dissipates. Water and dirt aka abrasive slurry can fill the displacement of the grease lost. This increases bearing drag and wears the bearings out prematurely or can. BB30 bearings are cheap. Many who are knowledgable about bike maintenance for example will pull their crank off their bike every couple of months and pop the bearings out and replace them with new. Here is the drill. Buy a handful of sets of BB30 bearings. Every 2-4 months or 6 months at the most, pull the crank. You don't ride that many miles and you mention not in a lot of rain. Replace the bearings with new bearings. $7/ea for ABEC-5 quality BB30 bearings available at local bearing supplier. Don't throw away the old bearings. Repeat above for next 6 months. 20 minute job. After you have a couple of sets of used BB30 bearings on hand, pop the dust seals. Take a jeweler's screwdriver and they pop right off...held on with an interference fit. Soak bearings in kerosene or mineral spirts. Toothbrush the bearings on both sides. Spin and let dry. Same procedure for rollerblade bearings btw. Regrease with any common auto or household grease. I like Mobil 1 but use anything you like. More viscous grease will last longer but offer fractionally increased drag. Pop the dust covers back on. If you do this for a couple of repetitions for $25 you can get down the road 3-5 years. Can't beat that for a price of a BB. Just takes a little time. If you don't have a big screen in your garage or work area, get one.
HTH.
P.S. I didn't invent Loctite on bikes. Major bike companies like Specialized and Cannondale did in an effort to quiet BB30 customers complained about. I have worked with Loctite engineers however on auto related product development...a good company.

As to your preload...it may or may not be OK. The way to determine this and this is graduate level bike mechanics is...you assemble the crank to the bike without a wave washer. You measure the gap on the spindle with calipers. Set your wave washer on a flat table on end. Measure its free standing height unloaded. Divide this value by 2. If the gap you measured with your calipers is much different than 1/2 the free standing height of the wave washer, you likely have too much or too little preload.

Last edited by Campag4life; 03-30-15 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 03-30-15, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by roadwarrior
LOL...a friend of mine had a popping sound when the cranks hit a certain spot. He could not figure it out, so I rode the bike. Originally I thought it was the seat post, or seat...stood up it stopped. Sat down, there it was. Pulled the seat post, did the whole deal...popping still there. It was the bottom bracket.

Cracked me up.

Speaker membrane...LOL.
I didn't say amorphous speaker membrane tho.
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Old 03-30-15, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
I didn't say amorphous speaker membrane tho.
"It sounds like it's coming from...."

An hour later we have it figured out.
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Old 03-30-15, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by loimpact
And, no, I hadn't seen any of your posts about green loctite, though I'd thought I'd read it all. (I saw a post on another forum about someone using teflon-tape around the bearing OD, of all things, to keep quiet. Apparently it worked, but if consensus says it's green loctite, then I'm happy to buy some).

FWIW, if this is "the" cure......why hasn't C'dale, Park and every forum on the planet posted the heck out of it yet??
From the Park Tools link I posted earlier:
There can be two press fit complications with the BB30. If the press fit into the frame is too loose, the bearings may move in the shell when stressed by pedaling. This results in a creaking sound. To resolve this, first check the torque on crank bolts to determine if the crank-to-spindle interface is the source of the noise. If this fails and there is still creaking, it may be the cartridge bearing moving in the shell. The bearings should be removed and new ones installed. Press the new bearings into the frame using a retaining compound such as Loctite® RC™ 609. Even using a threadlocker such Loctite® 242 at would be better than pressing the bearings into the shell dry.

If the press fit is too tight (the shell ID being too small relative to the bearings), the ball bearing in the cartridge will be literally squeezed and ground as you pedal. If you remove the cranks from the bike, turn the bearing inner race by hand — it should feel smooth. If you feel tightness and grinding, it is likely from the press fit being too tight. Do not confuse dirty bearings for this feeling. If the fit is too tight, it can be corrected by reaming the frame shell. A professional bike shop will use the Park Tool HTR-1 and the 752 BB30 Reamer Set. This will correct the inside diameter by removing material from the shell.
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Old 03-30-15, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
Not right either or you weren't clear. There is no 'I suppose'. All BB30 cranks have preload. Many falsely believe preload is pre-determined. It shouldn't be. The BB may have come from the factory less than ideal. In fact a good chance it was. Majority of BB30 cranks have wave washers for preload but it is the spacing of the wave washer that determines where it is in its compression/force relative to deflection. The rest of BB30 cranks are mechanical preload which have adjustable preload by way of an expanding collar . Preload is one of the most important facets of crank set up influencing bearing durability and noise and a common problem why bearings can wear out prematurely and/or make noise.
OK, chalk that down to another reason why I think BB30 sucks. Preload is vitally important, but the only way to adjust it is to take the crankarm off an install increasing number of narrow plastic washers. I'll admit when I overhauled my BB30 I did remove some of the washers as I felt like the wave washer was being over compressed, so did adjust preload in that way, but I have no real feeling as to whether the pre-load is at it's correct setting. I would bet that most people simply reinstall the washers that their bike came with, so the preload is effectively fixed by the torquing of the crank bolt. This is a far cry from the way one adjusts pre-load on Hollowtech cranks, which is much more refined. I suppose this gives the pro-BB30 crowd more ammunition against the BB30 haters: "AH! But you didn't install the correct number of washers, that's why it keeps creaking!"

I'll note that for mountain BB30 setups, there's a mechanical preload bolt, which is a far superior set-up for adjusting preload, presumably this is not on the road one to make it as narrow as possible for road use.
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Old 03-30-15, 01:01 PM
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I've spent a good amount of time on BB30 frames over the past 3 years and I've had do deal with creaking on a couple of them. It's not rocket science to make them quiet, but I'm still not a fan of the BB30 design.

I do all my own bike maintenance. I don't baby my bikes, often going months without washing them. The only frequent maintenance they get is chain lube/wipe. I'll clean brake pads (sanding down) to get grit out of them after a wet ride. I'll also replace my chain and clean the cassette every~3k miles. Cables (on my non-Di2) get replaced when shifting starts to suffer, usually 9-12 months. Brake pads, tires, and bar tape replaced as needed. In my maintenance world, everything else should be able to go over 1 year or 10k miles between attention, regardless of riding in the rain or not. I've had pretty good experience with this approach. Bikes are not the fragile creatures some make them out to be.

That said, I think it's crazy that anyone would need to pull the crank every month (or even a couple times a year) because they ride in the rain or other normal conditions. It's easy to pull a crank, but why would I want to? Where is it published that frequent (or even annual) removal of a crank is suggested? I'm not debating it, but I'm be surprised to hear that recommended interval. On the BB30 debate, I think it's a poor design compared to a threaded BB. My opinion is based on never having an issue with threaded BB's and having 2 issues with BB30 on bikes with less than 10k miles on them (but certainly thousands of miles before having an issue). I'm not saying BB30 is junk, but I think it's more prone to problems compared to threaded and the advantages are slim at best.
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Old 03-30-15, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by grwoolf
It's easy to pull a crank, but why would I want to? Where is it published that frequent (or even annual) removal of a crank is suggested? I'm not debating it, but I'm be surprised to hear that recommended interval.
It's not the recommended interval, except to the self described Voice of the Industry. The Voice of the Industry told me I was wrong to install my BB30 according to the FSA instructions lol. Keep doing what you're doing and take internet postings with a grain of salt.
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Old 03-30-15, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by grwoolf
I've spent a good amount of time on BB30 frames over the past 3 years and I've had do deal with creaking on a couple of them. It's not rocket science to make them quiet, but I'm still not a fan of the BB30 design.

I do all my own bike maintenance. I don't baby my bikes, often going months without washing them. The only frequent maintenance they get is chain lube/wipe. I'll clean brake pads (sanding down) to get grit out of them after a wet ride. I'll also replace my chain and clean the cassette every~3k miles. Cables (on my non-Di2) get replaced when shifting starts to suffer, usually 9-12 months. Brake pads, tires, and bar tape replaced as needed. In my maintenance world, everything else should be able to go over 1 year or 10k miles between attention, regardless of riding in the rain or not. I've had pretty good experience with this approach. Bikes are not the fragile creatures some make them out to be.

That said, I think it's crazy that anyone would need to pull the crank every month (or even a couple times a year) because they ride in the rain or other normal conditions. It's easy to pull a crank, but why would I want to? Where is it published that frequent (or even annual) removal of a crank is suggested? I'm not debating it, but I'm be surprised to hear that recommended interval. On the BB30 debate, I think it's a poor design compared to a threaded BB. My opinion is based on never having an issue with threaded BB's and having 2 issues with BB30 on bikes with less than 10k miles on them (but certainly thousands of miles before having an issue). I'm not saying BB30 is junk, but I think it's more prone to problems compared to threaded and the advantages are slim at best.
Pro race teams pull cranks every stage of a race when it rains and every other when it doesn't. 5 minutes.
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Old 03-30-15, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dr_lha
OK, chalk that down to another reason why I think BB30 sucks. Preload is vitally important, but the only way to adjust it is to take the crankarm off an install increasing number of narrow plastic washers. I'll admit when I overhauled my BB30 I did remove some of the washers as I felt like the wave washer was being over compressed, so did adjust preload in that way, but I have no real feeling as to whether the pre-load is at it's correct setting. I would bet that most people simply reinstall the washers that their bike came with, so the preload is effectively fixed by the torquing of the crank bolt. This is a far cry from the way one adjusts pre-load on Hollowtech cranks, which is much more refined. I suppose this gives the pro-BB30 crowd more ammunition against the BB30 haters: "AH! But you didn't install the correct number of washers, that's why it keeps creaking!"

I'll note that for mountain BB30 setups, there's a mechanical preload bolt, which is a far superior set-up for adjusting preload, presumably this is not on the road one to make it as narrow as possible for road use.
You say BB30 sucks and you bought one. Good move.
I love BB30.
A preload mechanical adjuster is not better than a wave washer crank and I believe nobody who has responded to this thread knows why. You are further wrong about being narrow for road use. There are mechanical preload adjusters on BB30 road cranks. As the voice of the industry, I love all the disinformation

Last edited by Campag4life; 03-30-15 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 03-30-15, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
You say BB30 sucks and you bought one. Good move.
I discovered it sucks after I bought a bike that had it. On every previous bike I owned the bottom brackets were never a source of any issues (my 1998 Spesh still has it's original cartidge BB, for example), so I had no reason to really give it much thought when I bought the bike. A mistake I will not make again.
I love BB30.
Obviously. We differ in opinion. Lets leave it at that.
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Old 03-30-15, 02:17 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
You say BB30 sucks and you bought one. Good move.
The Voice of the Industry speaks again.
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Old 03-30-15, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dr_lha
Obviously. We differ in opinion. Lets leave it at that.
To each his own, I say.
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Old 03-30-15, 02:25 PM
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OK, on a positive note here's what I like about BB30:

1) It's cheap to replace the parts for it.
2) I like the self extracting crank arm.
3) The hole in middle of the drive side of the crank looks cool, but I can't figure out what I should store in there. It's not deep enough for a full pack of Rolos.
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Old 03-30-15, 02:26 PM
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I a new to cycling.

If I was to purchase tools to do the job and not use some DIY alternative, what would I need to remove and re-install the BB30 BB, cranks, etc?

I was hearing odd sounds form my few month old Secteur and was thinking the BB needed attention. It only makes noise when under load.


Thanks

Frank
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Old 03-30-15, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dr_lha
I discovered it sucks after I bought a bike that had it. On every previous bike I owned the bottom brackets were never a source of any issues (my 1998 Spesh still has it's original cartidge BB, for example), so I had no reason to really give it much thought when I bought the bike. A mistake I will not make again.

Obviously. We differ in opinion. Lets leave it at that.
Just to be clear, BB30 is ubiquitous in the industry. It is the industry standard among all top bike makers...or virtually all.
As the voice of the industry I side with them. Yes, as BillyD said, to each his own of course.

A man walks into a Porsche dealer. Buys what he thought was the car of his dreams. It had a transmission problem. The man thought, he paid $80K for a car and he had owned 20 cars and never had a transmission problem before. His conclusion is Porsche's are junk. Reality is Porsche's are among the best production sportscars in the world.
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