Differences between mid range road bike and high end?
#126
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It would be easier and cheaper and more efficient all around if the rider would just lose 3-5 pounds and ride the less expensive bike
#128
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In your universe are you not allowed to do both? No matter how much body weight you lose, the weight that can still come off the bike will still be there. As will the fun of riding a super light bike. No amount of dieting can do anything to cancel those two things out.
Last edited by rpenmanparker; 04-07-15 at 01:54 PM.
#129
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Very few cyclists race. If you weigh 185+ lbs., you're not going to be very competitive as a climber anyway.
This means maybe .1% of riders will benefit from a $6K bike.
The performance gain on a climb is absolutely miniscule, in theory only, and you lose a portion of the advantage on the way back down.
I say in theory only, since drafting, choosing the right line, your own weight variation from one day to the next, among many other factors, affects your performance on any given day. Also, what if you bring 2 26 oz water bottles and your friend brings 1 20 oz bottle? Now you're 2 lb. weight advantage is gone completely.
$6K+ bikes are all about pride of ownership, bragging rights, etc.
This means maybe .1% of riders will benefit from a $6K bike.
The performance gain on a climb is absolutely miniscule, in theory only, and you lose a portion of the advantage on the way back down.
I say in theory only, since drafting, choosing the right line, your own weight variation from one day to the next, among many other factors, affects your performance on any given day. Also, what if you bring 2 26 oz water bottles and your friend brings 1 20 oz bottle? Now you're 2 lb. weight advantage is gone completely.
$6K+ bikes are all about pride of ownership, bragging rights, etc.
I think people here are looking at the issue incorrectly. A high end racing bike might not give you faster solo ride times, but if it keeps you from getting dropped out of a group ride, you will definitely see an improvement of tour ride time.
#130
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And the real irony of this is that Rolex is nowhere NEAR the high end of the luxury watch market. I could easily name a dozen or twenty brands of high end time pieces that are FAR more expensive and exclusive than Rolexes are. And the joke of it is, I own Chinese or Vietnamese-made copies of maybe a half-dozen of these luxury watches, none of which cost me more than $50 each in Asia, and all of which could fool > 99.9% of the population that they were the genuine article when they are worn on my wrist. They also keep time just as well as the genuine ones, with price tags well into the 5-digits do.
Comparing watch brands to car brands in terms of status and exclusivity: Timex is like Hyundai, Seiko is like Toyota, Rolex is like Cadillac, whereas Patek Philippe is like Mercedes, whereas Vacheron Constantin is like Bentley or Maybach.
Comparing watch brands to car brands in terms of status and exclusivity: Timex is like Hyundai, Seiko is like Toyota, Rolex is like Cadillac, whereas Patek Philippe is like Mercedes, whereas Vacheron Constantin is like Bentley or Maybach.
#131
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In your universe are you not allowed to do both. No matter how much body weight you lose, the weight that can still come off the bike will still be there. As will the fun of riding a super light bike. No amount of dieting can do anything to cancel those two things out.
#132
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If not, guilt might work....
congratulations on the doctor in the family. If she can help save you on medical expenses, that alone could cover a very nice bike!
#135
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Come on. Rolex=Cadillac. Really? You would compare Rolex to a GM product? Shame on you. I am not a fan of the Rolex but I do recognize the status that its Brand occupies and I would not put it down there with any GM product. I may put it there with Land Rover, which is not reliable buy quite attractive and holds a level of status similar to Rolex. You don't buy a Land Rover for its reliability though
#137
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Totally different consideration and perfectly valid. I would do the same as you. Heck, I did do the same as you when I was in a similar situation. But that should be the reason, not the mistaken notion the weight reduction wouldn't be either justified or beneficial.
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Not all races have climbing that requires the rider to be a stick man. Most of the amateur racing around here gives the advantage to an all around rider; a guy who can climb pretty well, motor, and sprint. In this neck of the woods you can race a criterium and the velodrome several times a week all season long.
I think people here are looking at the issue incorrectly. A high end racing bike might not give you faster solo ride times, but if it keeps you from getting dropped out of a group ride, you will definitely see an improvement of tour ride time.
I think people here are looking at the issue incorrectly. A high end racing bike might not give you faster solo ride times, but if it keeps you from getting dropped out of a group ride, you will definitely see an improvement of tour ride time.
And of the people who buy expensive bikes, few are racing.
What does that leave? Ego. Status. Pride of ownership. That's fine.
A few people buy porsches and race them. The vast majority don't.
#140
~>~
To fully appreciate the incremental performance improvement between a $2K and $10K race bike requires considerable cycling experience, and in particular racing experience.
A professional quality chef's knife is of little added value to one who doesn't have the knife skills and the technique required to maintain a performance cutting edge and efficiently/safely use the tool. One can say: "Gee, that's Sharp!" but producing piles of properly diced mirepoix and like-sized julienne takes commitment to technique, practice and kitchen time. Any tool performs as well as it's user's skills permit and great tools help the most skilled perform at the highest level.
Likewise a top-tier race bike can be appreciated as a fine quality machine in it's own right: "Gee, that's Light!" and operated by anyone w/ the cash to acquire it.
They are certainly a real pleasure to ride/own/enjoy.
The performance edge comes in the environment it was designed for: shoulder to shoulder in a tight peloton on pave', in a desperate >40mph sprint and at redline effort on brutal climbs.
Cyclists have a unique relationship w/ their machines being their motive power, ride what you like and better yet what you love.
-Bandera
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There is one situation where you'll see a tangible advantage. We're talking about weight primarily, and aero.
Suppose you're riding in a group, tightly packed and near the edges of your ability to keep up. Staying in the draft is critical because if you fade back a few feet and catch some wind, they may be gone before you catch up. Even if you can catch up again, you're burning matches and you only have so many of them.
You need to match accelerations (and deceleration) to the riders ahead of you. A lighter bike, and lighter wheels, facilitates it. Sure you get the energy back with greater mass/momentum and angular momentum if you never use brakes, but that doesn't match accelerations. If the acceleration curves don't match, you're catching wind and that will cost you.
Speaking personally, I almost never ride with a group and don't sprint with people so it's just about meaningless to me. But if I did do those things, everyone else would have a tangible edge over me and my 22 pound bike until I did something about the bike weight.
Suppose you're riding in a group, tightly packed and near the edges of your ability to keep up. Staying in the draft is critical because if you fade back a few feet and catch some wind, they may be gone before you catch up. Even if you can catch up again, you're burning matches and you only have so many of them.
You need to match accelerations (and deceleration) to the riders ahead of you. A lighter bike, and lighter wheels, facilitates it. Sure you get the energy back with greater mass/momentum and angular momentum if you never use brakes, but that doesn't match accelerations. If the acceleration curves don't match, you're catching wind and that will cost you.
Speaking personally, I almost never ride with a group and don't sprint with people so it's just about meaningless to me. But if I did do those things, everyone else would have a tangible edge over me and my 22 pound bike until I did something about the bike weight.
But most people here aren't interested in that. They want to defend spending an extra $4K to $10K. It's obvious why. They want a nicer bike. No problem with that.
But no need to deny this simple fact with: "I do so much pack riding I need an extra .00001 seconds from my bike."
#142
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This occurs in all sports. One kid pays $20 for a hockey stick and the other kid pays $300. Ditto for skates. Take it to golf or tennis and the same thing happens. The car analogy is actually a great one. A Honda Accord is a great car. AC, Radio, Cruise, Leather and etc. It is one of the most reliable cars made. One could ask why pay more for something else? Your BMW is not going to get you there any faster or do anything different.
#143
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#145
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I think I'm going to pour a Bushmill's, grab a cigar and go out to the garage. Then I'm going to go visit my AL Masi Gran Criterium and Guru steel and say, "You guys are still OK with me." Oh, and "Thanks for the rides."
#146
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Get in better shape. Lose 3-5 lbs. Problem solved.
But most people here aren't interested in that. They want to defend spending an extra $4K to $10K. It's obvious why. They want a nicer bike. No problem with that.
But no need to deny this simple fact with: "I do so much pack riding I need an extra .00001 seconds from my bike."
But most people here aren't interested in that. They want to defend spending an extra $4K to $10K. It's obvious why. They want a nicer bike. No problem with that.
But no need to deny this simple fact with: "I do so much pack riding I need an extra .00001 seconds from my bike."
Have you ever had a bike ride with a lot of strong surges? It might not be as easy as you think, certainly not as easy as that last sentence would imply.
I'm not going to spend 4K let alone 10K, but that doesn't mean every reason people give for it is unreasonable.
Last edited by wphamilton; 04-07-15 at 02:47 PM.
#147
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We're not talking about magnitude here, just some effect, no matter how minuscule. You sound awfully sure for someone who has no objective data. Not woulda, shoulda, coulda, you know all the back-of-the-envelope calculations that prove it can't be. I mean test data. Anecdotes don't count. Personally I don't know the answer. I just know riding a lighter bike feels way sweeter to me than riding a heavier one. Oh wait, that's an anecdote. But see, I'm just talking about my experience, not trying to convince anyone how they will feel about it.
#148
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See you are way more sure about that than your lack of objective data entitles you to be.
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Speaking hypothetically, if I have 10% body fat it's not that easy to lose another 3% at my age, and the other guys are already there plus having 5 pound lighter bikes.
Have you ever had a bike ride with a lot of strong surges? It might not be as easy as you think, certainly not as easy as that last sentence would imply.
I'm not going to spend 4K let alone 10K, but that doesn't mean every reason people give for it is unreasonable.
Have you ever had a bike ride with a lot of strong surges? It might not be as easy as you think, certainly not as easy as that last sentence would imply.
I'm not going to spend 4K let alone 10K, but that doesn't mean every reason people give for it is unreasonable.
I've done a lot of pack riding with very fit riders (college age, college team). I kept up very well and was faster than many, if not most of them.
I didn't say EVERY reason is unreasonable. I simply stated there is no performance advantage that matters.