Pirkaus

Let me tell you the story of Jonathan Gray, who died defending his Right of Way.
He's been dead just as long as though he was wrong.

Hiro11

A lot of you are misunderstanding me and making assumptions. I get it: I will lose in a "competition about who's right" with a car. I will lose no matter who is right. Trust me, after 25 years of riding and racing bikes no one is more defensive on the road than me.

I just trying to establish if I have the right to be internally annoyed, for my own edification. It's stupid but it makes me feel better.

Just to reconfirm for some of you: I fully... fully understand that my goal is to not get hit by a car, not to be "right". I'm not going to go out there and ignore cars because I have "right of way".

TrojanHorse

Just think - if you'd blown the stop sign you wouldn't have been there for the car to nearly hit. Food for thought.

welshTerrier2

With the understanding that laws don't guarantee safety, here is what the law says about this situation in Massachusetts.

First, there is the issue of whether it is legal for a cyclist to pass on the right if a car is stopped at a stop sign or at a red light. Chapter 85 Section 11B includes the following: "(1) the bicycle operator may keep to the right when passing a motor vehicle which is moving in the travel lane of the way ..."

It's not entirely clear whether "moving" means "currently in motion" or whether it means "using" the travel lane. While I usually remain behind vehicles stopped in the travel lane, I found nothing in the law to prevent a cyclist from filtering up on the right.

Second, with regard to the driver's actions described in the OP, Massachusetts law Chapter 89 Section 2 states:

"Section 2. Except as herein otherwise provided, the driver of a vehicle passing another vehicle traveling in the same direction shall drive a safe distance to the left of such other vehicle and shall not return to the right until safely clear of the overtaken vehicle; and, if the way is of sufficient width for the two vehicles to pass, the driver of the leading one shall not unnecessarily obstruct the other."

I'm no lawyer but the driver's action, i.e. a right hook, seems clearly illegal. The driver did not allow a safe distance before crossing your line of travel to take his right turn.

ColaJacket

Glad you don't filter up, because that does tend to make some motorists mad. They took a while to pass the cyclist safely, now everyone comes up to a red light, a cyclist passes them on the right, and they get slowed down again having to pass the same cyclist. Repeat a few times, and I could see a driver not wanting to give the cyclist plenty of room when passing them.

I think of it this way, if I can't give the car as much room as they're supposed to give me, then I shouldn't pass them at a stop light/sign.

GH

spdracr39

When it's practical I always let the cars go first. I would rather have them in front of me than behind me. Also I never pass cars in the lane in front of me. I line up and take my turn at the intersection just like the other vehicles.

floridamtb

Whoever waves first has the right of way

t3c9

Since the car can kill you and doesn't care if its got the right of way or not I would do your best just to stay out of it's way. Hopefully you can find a state park or some nice long loop that has low car traffic so you can enjoy your rides.

Psimet2001 

I am sure I am just reiterating what others have said but I have a few seconds at lunch -

1. Take the lane at intersections/stop signs. We can argue foreve about whether to take it all the time or not, but doing so at a stop sign is beneficial for all involved.

2. It doesn't matter who has the right of way. What matters is not having to put "but he had the right of way" on your tombstone.

wphamilton

Unless the bike (or any other vehicle) is coming up from behind and undertaking the car turning right, a right hook collision is the turning vehicle's fault.

If you're sitting beside him in the vehicle's blind spot, it is deemed an accident. In every news report that I've seen.

tarwheel 

Always take the lane at intersections. Otherwise, you will often get right-hooked. I don't generally take the lane when riding in traffic, except at intersections, when I always try to move to the center of the lane. Even if the driver initially sees you, by the time the light changes or it's time to go, the driver might not see you or forget you are there. It's not rude because you aren't really holding them up, and you got there first. After clearing the intersection, I move back to the right side of the lane.

Hypno Toad

This ^^^

When you are going straight though an intersection, never be to the right of the right turn lane. You should be in the through lane.

I can't say how many times I've watch other bikers get caught in this trap - rider stays on the right most part of the road, then they approach a stop light, the shoulder turns into a right turn lane. Continuing in the right turn lane, your at huge risk for the right hook.

Hiro11

Guys please, you're killing me. Read post 27.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hypno Toad

When you are going straight though an intersection, never be to the right of the right turn lane. You should be in the through lane.

This, on the other hand, is good advice that I will follow from now on.

Psimet2001 

The entire question and basis of this thread is about whether or not you are "right". Everyone understands that you're not going to go willy nilly into an intersection just because you know that you have the right of way....but by even having this thought to have this thread is brushing aside the point we are making. You can't even THINK "well I have the right of way", because it will never matter. I have been to too many cycling funerals to even remotely discuss any point that doesn't completely acknowledge that.

You never have the luxury of being right when you're on a bike. Ever.

Agent Cooper

Not to beat a dead horse, but as others have said - that 2500lb SUV has the right of way, pretty much all the time regardless.

As far as etiquette, if the road is busy and there's no break, (there's lots of cars ahead and behind) I'd take the lane and proceed when it's my turn as I would in a car. I'd also signal, make eye contact, make my intentions very clear, etc.

If the traffic is light, or intermittent, I'll pull over and let whatever traffic there is behind me go through first. Which leads me to my last point:

(And somebody already mentioned this, but it's worth repeating): In certain traffic situations, like a stretch with frequent lights and stops signs, I do not filter up and make cars have to pass me twice. It's pointless and rude. That makes ME mad when I'm driving, so I don't do it when I ride.

SevenTwentyNine

Hahaha, I love this. That's my exact same thought whenever I hear about someone getting into an accident that resulted from speeding.... if, just if, they were going even faster they would have missed the other driver and never had the accident lo!

wphamilton

I disagree with this. Granted it does not matter if you get killed or maimed, or if nothing at all happens. But what about in between, most of the time? There are more ways that it might matter than only with a physical injury.

vze23c3q

This thread flashed in my head as I took the lane this morning and signaled a left turn with a white Mercedes stopped in the opposite direction. I saw him starting to roll looking right then left when I aborted my left turn and stayed right and turned behind him. He raised his arm in frustration at me. I do believe he saw me and was going to give me the right of way, but we didn't make eye contact.

Clipped_in

This is correct. If you are going straight, take the lane so you don't interfere with someone who may want to turn right. As you proceed through the intersection move back over to the right to let traffic pass on your left as usual.

All of this of course applies to a conventional 4 way stop--not one of the new funky intersections that are becoming more and more common.

B. Carfree

This. Situational awareness makes riding easier, more enjoyable and safer.

njkayaker

"Moving" means "moving". It's entirely clear that "moving" doesn't ever mean "stopped" (it including being stopped would be absurd).

This law makes filtering stopped (not moving) vehicles illeagal. (Though, it's possible that no tickets are given for doing so.)


"Right hooks" are clearly illegal (in every state) but no one really cares about that because they happen regardless.


The sole interest (in this thread) is avoiding being a victim of a right hook.


For the OP's case, safely taking the lane is appropriate (and legal).

njkayaker

It's not really clear what you are saying here.

The most important thing is to avoid accidents in the first place.

Regarding avoiding accidents, you never contest "right of way". You either have it (safely) or you yield it. (Yielding "right of way" is always van option and an obligation to avoid an accident.)

The problem in the OP is that the rider had the "right of way" but not in a safe way.

Concern about right of way after an accident is something else entirely.

Tickstart

I don't live in the states but the notion of "who got there first" has nothing to do with it according to me. It's the other driver who crosses another lane and therefore have to take precautions, and if he want's to turn right then he shouldn't be in the left hand lane to begin with. Utterly embarrasing for the driver in question I would say, if you (car driver in this case) can make the turn safely then yes do it, but chances are you're just going to stand there and hold up traffic in your lane, waiting for the traffic in the lane you're crossing into to clear. Swallow your honour, drive straight and put yourself in the right hand lane if you want to turn right next time.

njkayaker

Your understanding is off here.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de...c/d11/c4/21802

The "right of way" isn't a right (like "free speech"). In traffic laws, the phrase is a way of determining which vehicle has priority.

"Right of way" is something you either safely have or something you yield. You are supposed to give it up to avoid an accident.

BlazingPedals

^^^ This. If you were in the Breakdown Lane (Shoulder) you were not in a traffic lane - neither straight nor turn. If you want to be treated as traffic, you need to act like traffic.