obed7

yep pretty much if my lbs stocks it, I get it from them...if they have to order it, I can do that and have it sooner than they can get it.
I do not use my lbs as a fitting room for an online purchase. I do not waste the time of the guys at the lbs...

softreset

Certainly. There's no such thing as a undesirable customer. Anyone that walks through the door has the potential to buy the SLR 10 or Dogma K on the floor. Some of our biggest sales have come from very unsuspecting customers.

Most of what drives the store to buy those parts for you, even if it means a loss, is "earning your business." Or rather, the lure of "earning your trust." We go out of way to get your stuff, we make you happy. Maybe you'll tell one friend, maybe you'll tell a dozen. Maybe you're the 3rd largest video blogger on YouTube and you just told 7 million followers that our bike shop is the best ever.

Or maybe you're going to come in every Saturday, kick some tires and waste our sales rep time for months on end and then go to a competitor who threw in a free $40 helmet with the bike and buy it from them.

That's the problem, we never know and sometimes we'll never know.

I do agree that blunt honesty is appreciated in business but there's also a chance (and thus fear) that our blunt honesty will create a very unexpected animosity towards us. There's a very fine line apparently and sadly, unlike yourself, most customers don't know where it is.

I once tripped over myself on bike sale, threw in a bunch of stuff and then got trashed on Yelp by the customer because I wouldn't throw in a third free water bottle.

rms13

What if I try it, like it, get treated like a dick by typical elitist LBS employee and I can buy it for 40% less on line?

MZilliox

but you are the typical undesirable customer, why would your LBS do such a thing for you?

I fight for the LBS, I do my best for them, I only expect the same. Bottom line, like every business, some are good, some don't feel the need to try so hard. The owner has the right do do as they please. but if I go into your LBS and you'd prefer not to oder my special parts, just say so, don't guffaw, huff and puff, slam the book on the counter and act like i asked you to sign over your first child, just do it or don't. luife is really that simple.

If you work for LBS, don't get defensive at the consumer's perspective, just listen. I am on both sides, I know what unreasonable expectation are. and they go both ways. you can;t expect me as a customer trying to give business to know when a situation actually hurts you. thats your job as LBS owner, period.

seymour1910

That's a reflection of that customer, and not you. Some folks just don't have integrity.

That's why I take Yelp reviews with a grain of salt. Off topic but I read a Yelp review about two weeks ago from a young lady that gave a local Restaurant ONE STAR and a bad review not because the food or service was bad, but that they didn't have front door parking, and she had to park in a parking garage and walk to the establishment. Now, ask me is she was overweight.......yup.

MZilliox

Spoken like a cyclist and business man, not just hobbiest. Classy post brother. I would go into your bike shop light years before setting foot in bt's shop.

Shuffleman

Where does that come from? Business is all about compromise. You have to do things that you do not want to sometimes to earn your pay. Get over it.
I agree with what bt said. I love my LBS. I ride with him weekly and support him. I have bought bikes from him and always use him for service. Sometimes I buy things from him just to buy them from him and support him. However, they do not stock many items or brands that I prefer. Thus, I go to Performance which is 2 minutes from my office or I go on line. I certainly am not going to have them order something that I can order myself. That requires that I pay more and am inconvenienced. They may stock 2 pairs of Gloves. I understand why and I would do the same thing. If that instance, I have to go to Performance where I can look at multiple pairs and brands. If my LBS has it I will buy it. If they do not, than I will go on line or to Performance. I am a vendor for them and I know that they buy products from other vendors as well. It is not a big deal.

hueyhoolihan

i think i reached that point in '06... so about a decade ago.

MikeyBoyAz

I disagree with your accusation that I am "undesirable." I explained exactly WHY he does this... free shipping and he gets better deals from his distributors (scored by how much product they order)... so if ordering the part doesn't cost him anything and it gets him free shipping because he can tack on my item, it's good for him. My most recent bikes have come from his shop because he's there to answer questions. I am always happy to give lip service to people with bike problems because he likes owning and operating a bike shop.

MZilliox

Sorry brother, that was meant toungue in cheek because I am the same as you if you read my posts, but a previous responder (probably LBS employee somewhere) called me the "typical undesirable customer" for wanting the same thing as you. So i was just transferring that arguement to your obviously opposite experience where your LBS actually does desire this from his customer. again, sorry for lack of clarity.

sometimes the internet doesn't get jokes, haha.

Phil_gretz

For me, it's not a single point of delineation. For every job, there's a limit to my expertise, tooling, and willingness to take on something completely new.

Example 1, Capability: I needed to have a bottom bracket faced to install an external bearing and crank set. I don't have the tools for this job, and it's not something I'll do enough to justify buying the tool. So, I go to my preferred shop for this work.

Example 2, Price: I want a specialty cable housing for a refurbishment project for a friend. I tell the friend exactly what he needs, and he's free to order via Amazon Prime, or to go to his LBS to bring me the part. I have no preference. If he says for me to just get the cabling, I'm ordering on line and waiting for shipping.

Example 3, Timing: A week before a planned long ride on a particular bike, I find that I have cracking/fraying in a tire sidewall. There's no time to order on line, so I phone my friend at the LBS and ask if he can get my tire (Pasela 27 x 1 1/8" gumwall) in the next shipment for pickup in two days. He says "yes", so I ask him to order them for me. I order two extra for another project. Turns out that he gives me a discounted price, too, just because he's cool and I ordered four.

Not everything is price. My LBS is my safety net when there's a problem that I can't solve alone.

NILS14

Where I live, comparing lbs prices to online prices is ridiculous. Internet wins every time. So I go to the lbs for the service, because I need them to repair my bike and to give me advice. I also want to encourage local businesses.

After 300km on my brand new Specialized Tricross, the rear wheel started making a rattling noise. Turned out it was the cassette hub. They're overloaded with spring maintenance of people who will use their bike 3 times during the summer, so I have to wait one week. After a week, I get told they received the wrong part, so I have to wait until wednesday (yesterday. So yesterday, I get there, he tells me they've sent him the wrong part again, so frankly, I'm at that point where I will stop using the lbs.

Except

He tells me he told Specialized "Listen, this guy paid his bike and hasn't used it yet, what are you guys doing". So Specialized sent them a brand new Axis 2.0 wheel to replace my Axis Classic wheel. Result: I'm extremely happy.

That's exactly what I want my lbs to do for me: an internet shop would never have done this for me.

Sure, I can get Ultegra calipers for $45 each on the internet. But I'll wait, and get them from the lbs eventually, because I know that in a couple of years when I buy my Roubaix, I'll get all kinds of service from them that nobody else can compete with.

dr_lha

Given that no "internet shop" sells Specialized bikes, this is rather irrelevant IMHO. Clearly only a bike shop is capable of handling warranty issues on bikes that only they sell. If you had bought another bike from an online retailor, what's to say they wouldn't have sorted you out a new wheel as well?

dvdslw

That's the truth, why do they get bankers hours? I pass three well stocked high end bike shops on my usual rides but only one is open Sunday and til 7pm, the others are 8-5 mon-fri. I know the shop owners use the excuse that they ride when their closed but come on, hire someone to man the store on the weekends so us busy family folks can browse and shop too!!!

TrojanHorse

Another thing - I do all my own maintenance but it's been a learning experience over the years. I did the nervous first century thing a few years ago (just to make SURE everything was right) and called a shop to give my bike a once-over before the big day, and they were booked solid for weeks.

That's great for them I guess, but I suppose it means I'll do my own maintenance too.

RPK79

If I owned a bike shop I'd just open later in the morning and do my riding first thing.

TrojanHorse

I doubt many shops open before 10 am as it is. Maybe 9 am if they're eager beavers.

Leinster

My old LBS back in Dublin was called "Commuting Solutions" and was open from 7am to 7pm. Every morning there'd be a line or 3 or 4 people outside dropping their bike off to get something tightened/loosened/replaced/repaired, and every evening there'd be the same line there to pick up (or vice versa). I see they've rebranded to "ThinkBike.ie" now, and open 10 to 7, but the similar idea's there. They carried mostly hybrids, but always had a nice upscale road bike or 2.

They got the prize for "best customer service ever" from me when the chainstay snapped on my MBK Super Record. I walked in with the bike and an old Peugeot HLE frame to ask them to swap the parts over. The guy had a look, said "it's a steel frame, we can fix it, come back tomorrow." He welded the stay back onto the BB, and I never had a problem with the bike again.

If I could find a LBS like those guys in California, I'd be in there all the time.

asindc

I think in special order cases as the one you describe, the LBS should be very upfront about the difficulties it faces. Let the consumer decide if it's worth it to order through them. I know my LBS will tell me if they can acquire something through regular channels or not. I'm sure they would rather not deal with the hassle of a special order if they have to get grief from the customer as well. Most (unfortunately not all) customers will be patient or politely decline to order IF they know about the challenges upfront. As always, communication is the key.

I usually buy a few things from my LBS, but I mostly go there for service. If they don't have something in stock or can't easily obtain it, I just usually order online.

akansaskid

I have, and will continue buying my bikes at the LBS. Not just because there's no choice for the major brands. The LBS from whom I buy most of my bikes has gone out of its way for warranty help. And I can try before I buy. That said, I buy everything else online. By now, I'm a better mechanic than they are (because I can take more time, likely) so I don't need their shop for installation, and at 15K+ miles per year, I go through way too many parts not to economize somewhere. But my LBS also drew the line in the sand early on, when some of the tires and parts I wanted were priced above MSRP.

txags92

+1

That is my own rule. If I am going to go to a store of any kind and use their stock on hand for a demo model to try on, test ride, etc. then I am going to give them every opportunity to make the sale before I go elsewhere to get it. When I was test-riding new bikes, I had decided on a Trek Emonda. I had two LBSs that sold Treks. One had a better rep for taking care of customers after the sale and sponsors a large local club. The other has more stores and is more convenient to my work and home. When I was test-riding bikes, the one closer to work and home had an Emonda one frame size up from what I needed, and they took the time to fit it fairly closely to what I needed and let me out the door to test ride as long as I wanted on the MUP next door. The one with a rep for better customer service said they had no intention at that time of stocking the Emonda and would only special order them if people wanted to buy them. So when I finished my test rides and decided to buy the Emonda, I gave the one where I had test-ridden the bike first chance to make me a deal I could live with when ordering the bike in the size I needed. If they had tried to gouge me, I would have gone elsewhere. But they treated me fairly and gained a loyal customer.

On the other hand, if I go to a LBS and they have something I wanted to see or try on in person, but their price markup is grossly out of line from what is available elsewhere or online (i.e. $40 for an item I can get for $15 elsewhere), I will buy something else I need from the LBS, like gels or other nutrition at a fair price and buy the other item at a fair price elsewhere.

MZilliox

I agree with this, and I'm the same way in general. My issue and confusion in this most recent instance comes from my LBS actually being the ones who recommended I outfit my bike with certain specific Nitto parts (most specifically a longer stem, noodle bars, and rear rack), then they act a bit put off that I would ask them to order the parts. To their credit, they are supposedly making the effort, just reluctantly and with low priority, so I will be patient. I am sure it often comes down to communication breakdown. Like i said, a simple "hey, we appreciate you trying to give us business but this one may be better to order online" would go a long way.

NILS14

The principle can apply to other brands as well. Choose one, it's on me.

As for your question, I would have had to pay shipping one way at least. That alone makes the lbs worth it. Also, every single internet purchase I have made where something went wrong with the product tells me I would never have gotten that kind of service. I don't get free maintenance with an online purchase either. The fact you perhaps do your own maintenance would be an irrelevant point since I'm the buyer, and I don't currently do my own maintenance.

But I have another example. I bought a used Felt F85 bike. I brought the wheels to that shop to get them trued. I came back the next day with the bike, to pick them up. The guy put the wheels back on, put the bike on the stand, and adjusted the rear derailleur for free.

Please, tell me which website provides you with such service ?

FrozenK

It seems like Mzilliox isn't one of those that will be patient, given that he was complaining the shop was making excuses about "shipping costs, minimum orders, blah, blah." And he accused the shop of not running their business properly. When it sounds like the shop was doing what they could to accomodate a rather demanding client that came asking for something they don't sell. So, yeah I'd say he is the customer you don't want. Why bother selling high-end parts at a low profit margin to a guy that doesn't seem to appreciate the effort you put?

To put it other way, where is the incentive for the shop to sell this guy $250 worth of parts when your profit is going to be close to zero?

bt

good explanation...

this is what i meant by undesirable customer...