nahungry

I have an LBS that I started going to from another one that really seemed to "not mind" my business.
Part of the reason why jumped ship was also because they were a partner shop for the team that I ride in.
About a month ago, I placed an order with the LBS for a part that is readily available online at most of all online shops.
The price isn't cheaper with the LBS, same as what I find at some online stores at best but higher for the most part.
I didn't mind waiting a week for them, although I'm on a temporary fix that really wasn't working out, or paying a bit more because the guy at the LBS is super nice and genuinely helpful. And it's my LBS.
For various reasons the part that I ordered has been delayed by few days on end and it has been a month or so now with no updates on exactly when it'll be here.
Again the part is readily available online and I can get them on hand in two days. I'm thinking about simply dropping the order and going online but I also want to deal with the LBS and maintain a good relationship.

Just wondering what others would do, at what point, for those who are relatively supportive and loyal to their LBS's.

spdracr39

At the point on the graph where increasing convenience crosses the decreased cost is where I decide who to buy from. There is a financial value to having something now, if they have to order it that value is gone. If it is something that requires them to install it's a no-brainer.

GlennR

I try to support my LBS but there are some products, like tire, that are just cheaper online.

KonaRider125

I don't owe my LBS anything, they aren't particularly friendly or helpful to me. I get almost all of my bicycle gear online, cheaper, easier and I can always get what I want.

TrojanHorse

I'm generally busy from 6am through 8pm during the week and driving my kids all over creation on Saturdays and Sundays - the LBS is never open when I'm in need of a part but Amazon is, and free two day delivery (free, hah!) seals the deal. The LBS I go to is one town over too.

It's not the price as much as it is the convenience. I do like supporting the shop - it's nice to see and touch things before you buy them.

RPK79

I've only had an LBS order something in for me once and that was only because I wasn't certain the tires would have clearance on my frame and I wanted to have an easy way to return them. Otherwise if they don't have it I just order online for less.

MZilliox

At the point where they choose not to run their business like business men, and act like it is difficult to order parts that they choose not to stock. I have given my LBS lots of business, over a grand in the last few months, and they know I am building up a special bike. But that is not something often done in my small town. So instead of getting excited with me, they act like I'm creating all this new work for them, they have to go find the supplier who carries Nitto parts. they have to apply to the distributor, they have to make phone calls, and look at pages, and order things instead of riding bikes in the parking lot. they are nice guys, but at some point you need to run your business like a business and treat good customers like good customers. if I was in a small town where i usually sell entry level anything and someone came in trying to buy high end things, I'm pretty sure I'd try to win mr high end's business. not just in bike shop land, but in any small business in any small town.

oh me and my expectations.... that business people like to do business. weird to think that.

All this being said I support any small business i can, and if they are good at it, I don't mind paying more at all. but if you charge more than the internet, you have to also offer a certain level of service to justify the higher price. so If i want to spend 250 bucks in parts don't give me excuses about shipping costs, minimum orders, blah blah blah, just make it work. or i can go to the internet, you can sell zero items, and keep riding fat bikes in the parking lot.

bt

at the risk of being rude, you are a typical "undesirable" customer.

rms13

My time and money is valuable. I try to support my LBS with things like tools and consumables where I might pay a couple of dollars more at LBS but when I try to buy something like a chain that they should have readily available and they tell me that they have to order it and have it in 10 days it's hard not to laugh in their face when I can buy the same thing for less online and have it in 1-3 days. And then when you get to things like tires, components, saddles etc that you can save a lot of money buying on line it makes no sense to shop at the LBS. The only "LBS" that can really compete for my business these days is Performance. At least they have most things in stock and when your a member and getting points back and they have sales you can get deals as good as online

Sy Reene

Shoes online with etailers that allow free returns. I gave up finding any LBS with any selection in size 49.

dr_lha

Oh it's "this thread" again.

All I can add is that I see no point in having an LBS order me a part if I can buy it online, because as you correctly point out, I will normally get it before the shop does, and it'll be cheaper.

MZilliox

It doesn't seem rude, just ignorant. You don't desire customers who go out of their way to try and give you business instead of the faceless interweb? Or a passionate hobbyist with disposable income? I can see I would be among the most undesirable of customers. No wonder the economy is doing so well.

practical

Why do you say that? I agree with what MZilliox said. Are LBS sacred cows?

seymour1910

Yeah this thread is done about 10 times a year with a slightly different title. It's another one of those never ending debates in cycling. Niether side will ever agree with the other side, but it makes for good discussion I guess. I put it in the same category as "alluminum vs carbon" and "Shimano vs Sram vs Campy".

softreset

This is an interesting assessment. I work at a bike shop and I recently helped our purchaser do pretty much this exact thing (with a different manufacturer). There's two ways to look at it:

1.) You want bike stuff, you're willing to pay for it from your LBS.
2.) The cost to "acquire" the part for you.

I recently went through acquiring about $1400 worth of parts from a small parts manufacturer that our shop had no relationship with so I had to go through that whole circus you described. We charged the customer MSRP on the parts (came to $1483.19) and when it was all said and done (cost of goods, time of employees involved in transaction, shipping, etc.) we lost $31.44 on the sale.

So in this particular, anecdotal case, not selling you that particular item would have actually been a net gain of $31.44! Obviously, you can't look at it that way, you look at it as fostering a future relationship with the customer but if you isolate individual sales like this... that's what happens.

yankeefan

I always support my LBS even though all my bikes, kits, shoes, and accessories were bought online for a fraction of the price. Like this one time I bought an inner tube for $10 from my bike shop. Then I went home and spent another $10 dollars and got 3 more tubes off Nashbar. Now don't get me started on Amazon pantry vs my local grocery shop.

gpburdell

I'm new here but imagine this topic is a well travelled road.


It's pretty simple IMHO. If the LBS provides value over ordering online, then use them. If they don't, then don't. For some things it makes a lot of sense to buy from the LBS and for other things they're just not going to be able to be competitive. When the LBS provides value I'll buy local, where they don't I'll buy online.

I think the only controversial part is when people use the LBS as a showroom with no intention of buying there.

Edit: Oh and then there's the combination such as PerformanceBike or REI with both online and local presence.

ColaJacket

Without LBS's, there would be fewer new riders, because new riders often go to the LBS to do research, road test, and buy. If nothing else, there would be no bikes to road test to see how you like the new model bike with the brand new gizmo on it. With fewer new riders, all bikes would cost more, as manufacturers spread the R&D costs over the bikes sold, with fewer bikes sold, that R&D cost is more per bike.

We'd be stuck with either online or big box store bikes.

Now, we shouldn't weep over the demise of a specific LBS that either wasn't giving their customers good service or they weren't following good business practices. But it would be a sad day if all the LBS's closed their doors.

I agree that if the LBS has to order a part that you were planning on installing yourself, and you could order it online for cheaper, than do so.

If you're planning on having them install it, then as long as it isn't too much more expensive, and they can get it in a reasonable amount of time, then have them order it.

If they have it in stock so you can "test" it, then you should be willing to pay a little more for that convenience.

My LBS didn't have the exact model of the bike that I wanted, but they had a bike with the same frame but a different component set that I was able to test ride. Because of this, and wanting them to help me fit the bike and put it together, I ordered it through them. It wasn't any more expensive for that particular bike. I could have ordered a bike through BD, but I'm not confident enough in my wrenching ability to put it together, make adjustments, and tune it up (yet), and these things come with the bike. The accessories I bought there, as they had them in stock, and I was getting a discount. I was also able to try them on, to make sure that they fit (gloves, MTB shorts, helmet, etc.).

GH

FrozenK

Because it doesn't sound like you know or understand how a bikes shop works. Some distributors will not sell to a shop without a minimum order. That means that to get you that Nitto bar they will have to get another three or four. You buy that one, the shop still has three more sitting for months because it isn't an item they normally sell. Making you happy cost them money.

Same with shipping costs. Shops pay shipping too. If they are placing a large order, the shipping cost becomes a small item. Special order of that silver stem you want from a brand they don't usually carry? Shipping will be a signifficant portion of it. Again, you expect them to eat that cost just to make you happy. Smaller brands can be a pain to deal with because they don't have good distribution channels. Which means six phone calls and three emails to get that particular part.

And while it can be expected that a shop will do that to keep a costumer, the costumer should also understand that often there is little to no profit in it for the shop in special orders.

himespau 

Ouch. That just seems wrong.

headloss 

Order anything you want online, guilt free. Just don't "show room." Don't go to the LBS to try stuff on or try stuff out and then order it for a lower price online. If you try it, and like it, buy it locally.

MikeyBoyAz

Well, I like many of you, will go online if I can get it cheaper... but, it's impressive how interested my LBS is in my business. If he can get it and sell it for any profit, he will. He also likes tacking on my orders to get free shipping on his QBP etc. Best experience was my Ritchey SuperLogic bars, seatpost and stem. I told him I was ready to buy them and he called the next morning saying they were in; pretty sweet.

MZilliox

That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the perspective and honesty, and not just labelling me "typically undesirable". short term thinking like that does not make for a long standing business. I could see this situation happening. I would not want to create this situation at all, but would hope a shop owner would be honest and frank with me if that was the case. I would hope my shop would say something like "thanks so much for thinking of us, but you may be better off finding the parts online and allowing us to do the difficult labor for you. we appreciate your business." Both sides have the best intentions for the transaction, there should be an amenable solution.

I used to run a Fly Fishing shop, similar situation in that there is an entry level and many boutique parts and options. Fly fisherman are as picky as cyclists no doubt about the gear and preferences. and they spend money on such gear, much like cyclists. I would always be willing to call a distributor to find something we don't stock. seems silly to me as a business to limit yourself to inferior/alternatives simply based on your bias in this climate of ease and simplicity. sure there's always scales of economy when you have wholesalers with minimum order amounts, but those are becoming increasingly rare as everyone fights for business in a rough economy.

simple ethics and communication in all relationships go a long way. I'm a pretty straight shooter, very patient and reasonable, and don't mind blunt honesty.
I find the debate somewhat interesting.

kingston 

For whatever reason, a lot of the bike stuff I buy is not in stock at any bike shop. I used to go out of my way to order stuff through the LBS because I thought I was doing them a favor. One time I was buying something, I think it was some special handlebar bag, and the LBS wanted something like double what it cost online. I told the owner that I didn't mind paying a little more to support his shop, but double seemed like a lot. He told me that after shipping, he actually doesn't even make much money on my special orders so I should probably just get those things online and come to the shop for things that are in stock, so that's what I do now. I don't own a bike shop, so I don't know where a bike shop's profits come from, but I'm guessing they make a lot more on consumables like tubes, cables and chains than on special order nitto components that most people have never heard of.

roadwarrior

For some perspective...we skew 45,000 items. Let me say that again, we skew 45,000 items.

And we still, despite all that stuff occasionally need to order a part.

The person who talked about not being able to order one thing, maybe needing to meet a minimum,100% correct. The other on the $1,400 order and losing money can also easily happen.

Where we succeed is when a person comes in looking for help. Next we succeed with the customer "super genius" who thought he needed something and ordered the wrong part/size, whatever. Now, while waiting for the refund, has to pay us for the part he really needs. Gets a bit complex.