what tire should I use as an 'upgrade' to the Conti 4000?
05-22-15, 10:33 AM
#26
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The Turbo Cotton is from Specialized. Sorry I didn't note that initially.
Also the Vittoria Open Corsa SC and Open Corsa CX are different tires.
Actually the Turbo Cotton just came back into production last year marketed as a 24c tire even though it uses the same casting as Vittoria's 23c Open Corsa SC. It is the exact same clincher tire that Tony Martin used to win some time trial stages in the TdF. Specialized recently released them marketed in a wider 26c profile which I picked up last week and am riding right now. It is identical in size to the 25c Open Corsa SC because it again uses the identical cotton casting.
Also the Vittoria Open Corsa SC and Open Corsa CX are different tires.
Actually the Turbo Cotton just came back into production last year marketed as a 24c tire even though it uses the same casting as Vittoria's 23c Open Corsa SC. It is the exact same clincher tire that Tony Martin used to win some time trial stages in the TdF. Specialized recently released them marketed in a wider 26c profile which I picked up last week and am riding right now. It is identical in size to the 25c Open Corsa SC because it again uses the identical cotton casting.
what do think about your TCs?
05-22-15, 10:33 AM
#27
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Tubulars on carbon rims. Reflecting on the merits of various clincher tires is like comparing the performance features of subcompact econo-box cars. Clinchers are suitable for city bikes or heavy duty commuters or for touring.
The performance beneifts of tubulars are particularly for hill climbing, and crits. I don't notice much difference in 'ride quality', but a set of tubular wheels will shave a pound of critical rotating mass. There is no performance overlap between clinchers and tubular setups.
The performance beneifts of tubulars are particularly for hill climbing, and crits. I don't notice much difference in 'ride quality', but a set of tubular wheels will shave a pound of critical rotating mass. There is no performance overlap between clinchers and tubular setups.
05-22-15, 10:43 AM
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Honestly they feel just as supple, and maybe slightly more grippy than the Vittoria Open Corsa SCs, but that may be due to the tire being new, fresh, and still sticky. The only difference between the tires is the rubber compound, Vittoria "ISOgrip" vs. Specialized "Gripton." The Turbo Cotton should also be more aerodynamic because the center tread is slick. In a blind test, I probably couldn't tell the difference between the tires though.
05-22-15, 10:52 AM
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05-22-15, 10:56 AM
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Tubulars on carbon rims. Reflecting on the merits of various clincher tires is like comparing the performance features of subcompact econo-box cars. Clinchers are suitable for city bikes or heavy duty commuters or for touring.
The performance beneifts of tubulars are particularly for hill climbing, and crits. I don't notice much difference in 'ride quality', but a set of tubular wheels will shave a pound of critical rotating mass. There is no performance overlap between clinchers and tubular setups.
The performance beneifts of tubulars are particularly for hill climbing, and crits. I don't notice much difference in 'ride quality', but a set of tubular wheels will shave a pound of critical rotating mass. There is no performance overlap between clinchers and tubular setups.
Last edited by TobinH; 05-22-15 at 10:59 AM.
05-22-15, 11:11 AM
#32
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I did a century with my old team just for fun. We took our time and ate at rest stops - barbecue sandwiches and pie/ice cream at another. We were gone for seven hours. The guy with latex tubes had to add air (lost 30 lbs) before we finished.
05-22-15, 11:31 AM
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tedder, you are in Portland? Do you run 23's? I have some brand new (take-off) Schwalbe Ultremo ZX Evos. I'm a clyde who prefers 25's - so these are surplus for me. Give me a shout if you'd be interested at a fair price. Just like these:
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05-22-15, 11:35 AM
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05-22-15, 11:37 AM
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05-22-15, 11:38 AM
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05-22-15, 11:53 AM
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I'll send you a PM with my e-mail address.
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05-22-15, 12:10 PM
#38
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I appreciate your evidence to refute my claims.
Anyway, look at a cross-section of a clincher rim. See those two hooks that are required to keep the tire on? You don't need these on tubulars. This saves a lot of weight at the very most critical part of a bike: rotating mass. Try and find a 1,000 gram wheelset in clinchers; it is impossible. In tubulars, this is possible for $600.
And the two clincher rim hooks are fragile and susceptible to impacts. And they are sharp, so they cause pinch flats during impacts. And internal tire pressure causes these hooks to be under significant stress, so clincher rims have pressure limits. Unlike tubulars, where you can run tires at whatever pressures you want without causing rim stresses.
Check what the pros are riding in the Giro, or any top-level race. Everyone is on tubulars, all of the time. Not just for performance (weight) but due to safety in the event of a blowout.
Anyway, look at a cross-section of a clincher rim. See those two hooks that are required to keep the tire on? You don't need these on tubulars. This saves a lot of weight at the very most critical part of a bike: rotating mass. Try and find a 1,000 gram wheelset in clinchers; it is impossible. In tubulars, this is possible for $600.
And the two clincher rim hooks are fragile and susceptible to impacts. And they are sharp, so they cause pinch flats during impacts. And internal tire pressure causes these hooks to be under significant stress, so clincher rims have pressure limits. Unlike tubulars, where you can run tires at whatever pressures you want without causing rim stresses.
Check what the pros are riding in the Giro, or any top-level race. Everyone is on tubulars, all of the time. Not just for performance (weight) but due to safety in the event of a blowout.
05-22-15, 12:21 PM
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I'm not very interested in what the pros use, because pros have things like contracts and follow cars. Your data regarding rolling resistance and the importance of rotating mass is simply factually incorrect. You can bury yourself in data if you like, but I don't have much interest in doing your searching for you. I like to use a site called 'google'.
If you're talking about a dedicated set of race wheels, tubulars make sense, but I believe this is a road going forum and no one who is interested in anything other than an internet argument would recommend tubular wheels to a road cyclist interested in centuries and 'solo hill climbs.'
If you're talking about a dedicated set of race wheels, tubulars make sense, but I believe this is a road going forum and no one who is interested in anything other than an internet argument would recommend tubular wheels to a road cyclist interested in centuries and 'solo hill climbs.'
05-22-15, 12:39 PM
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I saw that...but they are the 1st generation Pro 4 and PBK is pushing the new "V2". Looks like they went from a 1x 110TPI to a 3x 110TPI on the new one, for $18 more I'm thinking about giving it a try...
05-22-15, 12:43 PM
#41
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Ah fair enough. I had no idea there was a new version of the Pro4. Something to try when my current ones wear out I guess!
05-22-15, 03:01 PM
#42
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I'm not very interested in what the pros use, because pros have things like contracts and follow cars. Your data regarding rolling resistance and the importance of rotating mass is simply factually incorrect. You can bury yourself in data if you like, but I don't have much interest in doing your searching for you. I like to use a site called 'google'.
If you're talking about a dedicated set of race wheels, tubulars make sense, but I believe this is a road going forum and no one who is interested in anything other than an internet argument would recommend tubular wheels to a road cyclist interested in centuries and 'solo hill climbs.'
If you're talking about a dedicated set of race wheels, tubulars make sense, but I believe this is a road going forum and no one who is interested in anything other than an internet argument would recommend tubular wheels to a road cyclist interested in centuries and 'solo hill climbs.'
There is no performance overlap between the tubulars and clinchers. No matter how much I paid for the clinchers or how little I paid for the tubulars. I cannot tell any difference in ride quality or 'rolling resistance' between any of them. But the weight difference is significant. The one pound plus tubular wheel weight advantage is substantial during climbing and accelerating.
BTW: I don't get flats with tubulars. 20cc of Stan's sealant in each tire prevents that.
05-22-15, 03:38 PM
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The Ultremo ZX is a hot tire, too!
I've not used them, but I use the Schwalbe One currently, and it's damn fine.
I've not used them, but I use the Schwalbe One currently, and it's damn fine.
05-22-15, 05:15 PM
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05-22-15, 08:47 PM
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I thought the Ultremo ZX was quite inferior to the GP4000S in ride quality and rolling resistance. Really don't get the hate some people have for the GP4000S as it's been a phenomenal training tire for me.
05-22-15, 10:09 PM
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The 4000 is certainly one of the coolest-looking tyres I can think of, if that counts for anything... although I did black out the little yellow 'S' on my set.
BTW, I reckon most folks would be best off running a size larger in the rear (with about the same pressure in both); 23/25 should be the norm (and perhaps obviate a need for the crappy polygonal 11t). And why are chunky dual-pivot rear brakes a thing, while I'm at it? Only Campy knows the deal on that score.
BTW, I reckon most folks would be best off running a size larger in the rear (with about the same pressure in both); 23/25 should be the norm (and perhaps obviate a need for the crappy polygonal 11t). And why are chunky dual-pivot rear brakes a thing, while I'm at it? Only Campy knows the deal on that score.
Last edited by Kimmo; 05-22-15 at 10:14 PM.
05-23-15, 10:44 AM
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I love my Vittoria Open Corsas. A friend who is a former LBS owner and, now, an industry rep always swore by Michelin. He tells me Open Corsas are awesome. I agree.
05-23-15, 11:26 AM
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Yes it will, because when you puncture on butyl and get dropped, you'll be riding the rest of the way solo. I vote for Vittoria Evo Open Corsa CX with latex tubes, size 25 mm if it will fit in your frame.