School of fish bike behavior
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Middelbury, Vermont
Posts: 1,105
Bikes: Giant Escape 1
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
2 Posts
School of fish bike behavior
I just read a post in another forum about a fatal accident that occured as a result of a collision among bikers riding closely together in a pack. I've seen bike groups ride like that - many of them just inches away from each other - and I've wondered, "why do they do that?" I would never drive my car like that and I even keep a comfortable distance when walking behind someone else. Why would I crowd the person in front of me as we travel 15 to 25 mph? Shouldn't groups be smarter than this? But this tight pack behavior seems to be the expectation in some group rides. Is it aggresive competitiveness coming out? Either back off or pass, and if someone wants to pass, let them. It's group behavior because you won't see a solitary rider trying to hang just behind another biker s/he doesn't know. This is, literally, group think behavior modeled after a school of fish. So I simply ask, why?
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 240
Bikes: Marinoni Piuma, Boulder All-Road
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Cuz drafting.
#3
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 32,988
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11960 Post(s)
Liked 6,628 Times
in
3,476 Posts
Here we go.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
#5
Senior Member
People slip and die in the shower. Doesn't mean I neglect my personal hygiene.
Pack riding is efficient and it is part of the sport of road cycling. It's not the safest thing in the world. Not the most dangerous either. But I don't think people ride skinny tires at 25mph for the sole purpose of being safe.
Pack riding is efficient and it is part of the sport of road cycling. It's not the safest thing in the world. Not the most dangerous either. But I don't think people ride skinny tires at 25mph for the sole purpose of being safe.
__________________
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
Cat 2 Track, Cat 3 Road.
"If you’re new enough [to racing] that you would ask such question, then i would hazard a guess that if you just made up a workout that sounded hard to do, and did it, you’d probably get faster." --the tiniest sprinter
#6
Senior Member
It is a useful too in the right circumstances done by riders who are practiced in the art and sometimes things go wrong. Same in nascar.
We had to buck a lot of wind today so we drafted and eschelon'd as best we could against the bursts of wind.
We had to buck a lot of wind today so we drafted and eschelon'd as best we could against the bursts of wind.
#8
Stand and Deliver
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 3,340
Bikes: Cannondale R1000, Giant TCR Advanced, Giant TCR Advanced SL
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
If you're not interested in riding in a pace line due to your concern for safety, then you're better off staying solo. But there are some distinct advantages to riding in a group. If done properly it can be very safe, you'll save up to 30% of your energy and you're able to ride 2+ mph faster with the same effort over a much longer distance. If you really want to understand the benefits you can read up on it, rather than criticize something that you don't understand.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,272
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8271 Post(s)
Liked 9,022 Times
in
4,468 Posts
Bicyclists or cyclists. or even roadies. Not bikers.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 415
Bikes: Wheelbarrow
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Troll.
#13
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 32,988
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11960 Post(s)
Liked 6,628 Times
in
3,476 Posts
Stop the troll name-calling. It's a reasonable question to ask for someone not familiar with the sporting aspect of cycling. Recreational cyclists not familiar with the risks involved in racing are bound to find drafting to be eye-opening. Not everyone watches bicycle racing, you know.
Once many of you get old enough, there's a good chance you won't do it either. At some point in life, odds are you'll look at things you used to do once without concern and ask yourself - "Was I crazy or what"?
Yeah you will.
Yeah . . . you will.
Once many of you get old enough, there's a good chance you won't do it either. At some point in life, odds are you'll look at things you used to do once without concern and ask yourself - "Was I crazy or what"?
Yeah you will.
Yeah . . . you will.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
#14
You gonna eat that?
Yep. I'm a 4000 mile a year guy, so I ride a fair amount. You'd never catch me in a peloton though. Unless it looked like this and there was beer at the end.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Forest Grove, OR
Posts: 127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
You would drive like that if in a race. It's all about bike handling.
You gain an easier effort by reducing drag. Just like how the professionals do it.
Also.
Because racecar.
You gain an easier effort by reducing drag. Just like how the professionals do it.
Also.
Because racecar.
#17
I'm doing it wrong.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,875
Bikes: Rivendell Appaloosa, Rivendell Frank Jones Sr., Trek Fuel EX9, Kona Jake the Snake CR, Niner Sir9
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9742 Post(s)
Liked 2,812 Times
in
1,664 Posts
They are riding like that to draft off each other...the effort to stay at that speed is much less than if they didn't use the draft. It's a racing technique.
I don't particularly like it and rarely, if ever, do it. I'd rather ride fast solo or with others without drafting and never really understood the whole drafting paceline thing.
I don't particularly like it and rarely, if ever, do it. I'd rather ride fast solo or with others without drafting and never really understood the whole drafting paceline thing.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 415
Bikes: Wheelbarrow
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Stop the troll name-calling. It's a reasonable question to ask for someone not familiar with the sporting aspect of cycling. Recreational cyclists not familiar with the risks involved in racing are bound to find drafting to be eye-opening. Not everyone watches bicycle racing, you know.
Once many of you get old enough, there's a good chance you won't do it either. At some point in life, odds are you'll look at things you used to do once without concern and ask yourself - "Was I crazy or what"?
Yeah you will.
Yeah . . . you will.
Once many of you get old enough, there's a good chance you won't do it either. At some point in life, odds are you'll look at things you used to do once without concern and ask yourself - "Was I crazy or what"?
Yeah you will.
Yeah . . . you will.
Therefore it's more likely than not that at some point in posting on BikeForums nearly 500 times now OP would have at least come across the concept of drafting and/or pacelining.... even just once, just-one-single-time where this was explained. It doesn't have to be specifically in the Road Cycling forum either.
Plus the whole thing with cars and walking and comparing it to group cycling just looks like a ploy to use apparent naivete to instigate certain types of responses from the crowd.
If this was OP's first or second post or something I'd view it a lot differently - some girl just joined today asking about what to put in her saddle bag etc. No flaming there because it seems genuine with like 3 posts to her account.
500 posts? You know your way around the block here.
Last edited by SevenTwentyNine; 05-25-15 at 02:26 PM.
#19
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 32,988
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11960 Post(s)
Liked 6,628 Times
in
3,476 Posts
I don't care if he did know all about it. He decided to address the issue for exactly what it is - a dangerous pastime. And that's the part some of you guys don't like, on many assorted roadie issues - the reality checks.
Deal with it.
Deal with it.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Burnaby, BC
Posts: 240
Bikes: Marinoni Piuma, Boulder All-Road
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#21
Speechless
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central NY
Posts: 8,842
Bikes: Felt Brougham, Lotus Prestige, Cinelli Xperience,
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 39 Times
in
16 Posts
How do we know what a school of fish riding bicycles would do? I personally have only once seen a fish on a bike, and he was battered and fried and lounging in a basket. I don't recall ever riding like that.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 415
Bikes: Wheelbarrow
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Pacelining is more dangerous - people who do it know that. Pacelining is efficient - people who do it know that.
I don't have an issue with OP's view that pacelining is dangerous etc etc etc, OP can stay out of one if OP so bothered by it.
What's OP's point in tagging it as "aggressive competitive" behaviour or saying people who do it are adopting a school of fish mentality... terminology that seems rather judgmental and both of which have negative connotations for something people do simply for efficiency gains of keeping a tight line and not to ostracize anyone in the cycling community or doing it because they don't know any better.
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Middelbury, Vermont
Posts: 1,105
Bikes: Giant Escape 1
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 136 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
2 Posts
I DO know my way around the block, thank you. And I do know why people draft in an organized bike RACE. But I also advocate for safer roadways and greater awareness about bike safety issues. And to me this is a bike safety issue and it seems hypocritical for bikers to complain about car drivers then bike in an inherently unsafe manner just because it's fun and lets them imagine that they're racing. I think all bikers should bike safely even when it means they may have to go a little slower and not have as much fun. Is that an unreasonable point of view?
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 415
Bikes: Wheelbarrow
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It's pretty obvious. The negative and condescending undertones in OP's post are completely blatant despite any defense that might be attempted to use for it.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 415
Bikes: Wheelbarrow
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I DO know my way around the block, thank you. And I do know why people draft in an organized bike RACE. But I also advocate for safer roadways and greater awareness about bike safety issues. And to me this is a bike safety issue and it seems hypocritical for bikers to complain about car drivers then bike in an inherently unsafe manner just because it's fun and lets them imagine that they're racing. I think all bikers should bike safely even when it means they may have to go a little slower and not have as much fun. Is that an unreasonable point of view?
Last edited by SevenTwentyNine; 05-25-15 at 02:50 PM.