Professional fit is dumb....
05-28-15, 11:55 AM
#79
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,229
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18409 Post(s)
Liked 15,520 Times
in
7,324 Posts
05-28-15, 12:05 PM
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Walk in sight unseen with a bike? No. But understand, we will show them exactly why things are the way they are and what needs to be adjusted. And afterward show them what's changed output-wise if they decide to make changes. Fact is few really get how to do this. But it's always up to the customer.
The folks that believe they have it under control generally are not customers. They don't bother. So it's not a fair question because the people that ARE customers usually have an issue with their bike or it is a new one they want set up.
Last edited by roadwarrior; 05-28-15 at 12:13 PM.
05-28-15, 12:21 PM
#81
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,892
Bikes: Fuji Sportif 1.3 C - 2014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm not trying to convince you. Like I have said several times, it's not for everyone. And people who get fittings from numbskulls who make huge changes in the bike without telling the rider that they will have to gradually work up to the new benchmarks are many times the ones that experience pain. Either that or they have a physical ailment or injury that they did not reveal to the fitter. Like you had a broken leg once. First thing, let's measure leg length and many times because of the break they are not the same length. Having hip pain riding? Yep. Let's set you up with shims to get your legs the same length when touching the pedals. Little stuff like that. Then we have to look at supination/pronation. All that factors into how the shims are attached. I am sure the home fitter can figure all that out on their own.
If you have a bell curve body type and no issues you might get lucky. That's not most of the population.
A friend of mine was getting dental work done and it got screwed up. I guess we can conclude that all dentists are worthless and we can drill and fill our own teeth.
A good fitter will diagnose by asking the rider a lot of questions before they start prescribing solutions and putting them on whatever machine they are using.
Prescribing before diagnosing is also called malpractice.
If you have a bell curve body type and no issues you might get lucky. That's not most of the population.
A friend of mine was getting dental work done and it got screwed up. I guess we can conclude that all dentists are worthless and we can drill and fill our own teeth.
A good fitter will diagnose by asking the rider a lot of questions before they start prescribing solutions and putting them on whatever machine they are using.
Prescribing before diagnosing is also called malpractice.
How long should that person be biking before going to a professional fitter? Or how many miles per week or per ride should that person wait before it would be worthwhile to see a professional fitter. This is assuming that there are no big medical issues, and that the bike is not causing pain, but just having general soreness after riding.
How many issues might just be fitness level vs. needing to adjust things to ride the bike better.
GH
05-28-15, 12:30 PM
#82
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
For a person that is just getting back into biking for fitness and to lose weight. And they want to improve the length and time of their rides.
How long should that person be biking before going to a professional fitter? Or how many miles per week or per ride should that person wait before it would be worthwhile to see a professional fitter. This is assuming that there are no big medical issues, and that the bike is not causing pain, but just having general soreness after riding.
How many issues might just be fitness level vs. needing to adjust things to ride the bike better.
GH
How long should that person be biking before going to a professional fitter? Or how many miles per week or per ride should that person wait before it would be worthwhile to see a professional fitter. This is assuming that there are no big medical issues, and that the bike is not causing pain, but just having general soreness after riding.
How many issues might just be fitness level vs. needing to adjust things to ride the bike better.
GH
Rider weight is also going to influence what I recommend bike-wise, but always let the customer know you need to know some things to best help them.
So, if I was selling the bike, I'll request permission to ask a few questions and some will be fitness related to get a handle on what they have in mind, and then we can recommend a course of action going forward.
Think big picture...
One of the biggest issues with the retail bike business is the lack of ability to effectively ask questions to help the customer from beginning to end. And that is a training issue, but smaller shops don't want to waste man-hours training so they practice on live customers.
Last edited by roadwarrior; 05-28-15 at 12:33 PM.
05-28-15, 12:56 PM
#83
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Very N and Very W Ohio Williams Co.
Posts: 2,458
Bikes: 2001 Trek Multitrack 7200, 2104 Fuji Sportif 1.5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Bill
05-28-15, 01:50 PM
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 495
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
05-28-15, 01:55 PM
#87
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: take your time, enjoy the scenery, it will be there when you get to it
Posts: 7,281
Bikes: 07 IRO BFGB fixed-gear, 07 Pedal Force RS
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I'm very glad I didn't have to pay just to find that my fit was already nearly perfect.
05-28-15, 02:04 PM
#88
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It seriously depends...the bike may not be causing issues yet because that rider is doing 5-10 miles, only. Also, if the rider is overweight and is dieting and exercising, we'd ask them (gently) what their plan is. If he or she says lose 20-30 pounds in a couple of months, I might tell them to hold off until that happens and their mileage goes up. We give a discount if you make an appointment within 30 days of a new bike purchase, but they could make an appointment for 3 months out and still get the discount.
Rider weight is also going to influence what I recommend bike-wise, but always let the customer know you need to know some things to best help them.
So, if I was selling the bike, I'll request permission to ask a few questions and some will be fitness related to get a handle on what they have in mind, and then we can recommend a course of action going forward.
Think big picture...
One of the biggest issues with the retail bike business is the lack of ability to effectively ask questions to help the customer from beginning to end. And that is a training issue, but smaller shops don't want to waste man-hours training so they practice on live customers.
Rider weight is also going to influence what I recommend bike-wise, but always let the customer know you need to know some things to best help them.
So, if I was selling the bike, I'll request permission to ask a few questions and some will be fitness related to get a handle on what they have in mind, and then we can recommend a course of action going forward.
Think big picture...
One of the biggest issues with the retail bike business is the lack of ability to effectively ask questions to help the customer from beginning to end. And that is a training issue, but smaller shops don't want to waste man-hours training so they practice on live customers.
LBS guy: Hello, can I help you.
Me: Yes, I'm here to look at some road bikes.
LBS: Sure, they'e over here *walks over with me to their road bike section* Here they are, let me know if you need anything. *walks off*
Last night...my body asked for bourbon...I gave it what it wanted...
05-28-15, 04:35 PM
#91
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,745
Bikes: S-Works Roubaix SL2^H4, Secteur Sport, TriCross, Kaffenback, Lurcher 29er
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I don't know how anyone could read this forum and conclude that paying for a fit is always a waste of money.
There are some real doozies of amateur fits posted regularly.
There are some real doozies of amateur fits posted regularly.
05-28-15, 06:07 PM
#92
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,843
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times
in
612 Posts
I have never had help with cleats. I carry whatever tool is needed on the fist few rides with new shoes/cleats. Then stop now & then to tweak them as needed until they feel good.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
05-29-15, 04:35 AM
#93
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664
Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
This is my local bikeshop(s) in a nutshell. Not much time spent with the customer at all:
LBS guy: Hello, can I help you.
Me: Yes, I'm here to look at some road bikes.
LBS: Sure, they'e over here *walks over with me to their road bike section* Here they are, let me know if you need anything. *walks off*
Last night...my body asked for bourbon...I gave it what it wanted...
LBS guy: Hello, can I help you.
Me: Yes, I'm here to look at some road bikes.
LBS: Sure, they'e over here *walks over with me to their road bike section* Here they are, let me know if you need anything. *walks off*
Last night...my body asked for bourbon...I gave it what it wanted...
There were a couple of shops like that near us. They are out of business. We bought their inventory.
05-29-15, 09:35 AM
#94
Old Fart
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Bumpkinsville
Posts: 3,348
Bikes: '97 Klein Quantum '16 Gravity Knockout
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
2 Posts
Great shops (as yours seems to be) must realistically only make-up about 1% of the total number of LBS's. The mix of competency; honesty, and aboive-average service, is truly RARE!
05-29-15, 09:58 AM
#95
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ellensburg,WA
Posts: 3,179
Bikes: Schwinn Broadway, Specialized Secteur Sport(crashed) Spec. Roubaix Sport, Spec. Crux
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked 167 Times
in
83 Posts
Some folks that have bad experiences with local bike shops should honestly consider that maybe it is them and not the shop with the problem. If they are IRL anything like they are on this forum and act like a judgmental troll.
__________________
Sir Mark, Knight of Sufferlandria
Sir Mark, Knight of Sufferlandria
05-29-15, 10:16 AM
#96
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Last Friday, called my LBS to get some work done on my bike (re-cabled, new chain, handlebars wrapped). They stated that if I took it in Tuesday, they'd have it done by today or at the latest, tomorrow (sat). I even stripped off all of the cables, the old chain and the handlebar wrap for them on Monday. Dropped it off tue (26th). Called today to see how it was going and was told this:
"Uh..yeah...we're pretty busy at the moment...it's down to be worked on the 3d..."
So next Wed...great...awesome customer service.
Explain to me how this is my fault again?
05-29-15, 11:42 AM
#97
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ellensburg,WA
Posts: 3,179
Bikes: Schwinn Broadway, Specialized Secteur Sport(crashed) Spec. Roubaix Sport, Spec. Crux
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked 167 Times
in
83 Posts
So riddle me this...
Last Friday, called my LBS to get some work done on my bike (re-cabled, new chain, handlebars wrapped). They stated that if I took it in Tuesday, they'd have it done by today or at the latest, tomorrow (sat). I even stripped off all of the cables, the old chain and the handlebar wrap for them on Monday. Dropped it off tue (26th). Called today to see how it was going and was told this:
"Uh..yeah...we're pretty busy at the moment...it's down to be worked on the 3d..."
So next Wed...great...awesome customer service.
Explain to me how this is my fault again?
Last Friday, called my LBS to get some work done on my bike (re-cabled, new chain, handlebars wrapped). They stated that if I took it in Tuesday, they'd have it done by today or at the latest, tomorrow (sat). I even stripped off all of the cables, the old chain and the handlebar wrap for them on Monday. Dropped it off tue (26th). Called today to see how it was going and was told this:
"Uh..yeah...we're pretty busy at the moment...it's down to be worked on the 3d..."
So next Wed...great...awesome customer service.
Explain to me how this is my fault again?
I'll not argue that your shop's failure to perform as promised is in no way your fault. You could have however had quicker service on the cables and bar tape to have had it done a couple months ago when it was not in the busy season.
__________________
Sir Mark, Knight of Sufferlandria
Sir Mark, Knight of Sufferlandria
05-29-15, 12:24 PM
#98
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
You have already been advised that your LBS sucks.... and yet you still take your bike to them. if "I spent a good amount of time on the indoor trainer" then why are you not spending just a few minutes learning to work on your own bikes. Cables, chains and bar tape are not exactly hard to change or time consuming.
I'll not argue that your shop's failure to perform as promised is in no way your fault. You could have however had quicker service on the cables and bar tape to have had it done a couple months ago when it was not in the busy season.
I'll not argue that your shop's failure to perform as promised is in no way your fault. You could have however had quicker service on the cables and bar tape to have had it done a couple months ago when it was not in the busy season.
...on the other hand, I'm bored so here goes...
A. If you'd like to come on over to my place and instruct me on how to properly setup a group from the ground-up...I'll gladly buy you some beer/pizza for your trouble and I love to learn from others. If not...this a bit advanced for me at this point. I can do all the day to day adjustments but a complete install is still a little off for me.
B. Sadly, this isn't even the "LBS" I originally mentioned...this is my attempt to take it to another place. Sadly...as I found out Tuesday when I took it in...they are a Trek/Giant/Cervelo store and my bike is a Specialized. I was immediately given the "Oh...it's a specialized" comment when I took it in. I kind of guessed it may go south...
C. Since posting earlier, I actually went to pick it up and actually attempt to do my own install. Funny enough, when faced with my taking it, all of the sudden the clouds parted and they magically had time to get it done today! Wow! And I didn't even have to use my AK...today was a good day. They'll have it done this afternoon...I did have to make an extra trip over there though...
05-29-15, 12:38 PM
#99
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 289
Bikes: 2013 Trek 1.5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I notice you're in NY (although not sure where) and this guy in Brooklyn (where I live) came recommended by a few people.
05-29-15, 12:54 PM
#100
Senior Member
On one hand, I'm told that millions of Chinese ride bikes without having a professional fit,and are none the worse for the lack. In addition, there's the thought that it's not that complicated and if you get it close, you should be golden. Then there's the other side, who, upon hearing that someone had a sore butt after their first century ride, will suggest that of course they're having problems if they haven't had a full fit done.
I find the whole subject amusing.
I find the whole subject amusing.