Darth Steele

my $.02

The position that you ride in may not the same position that were fitted for. For me I attend lean forward more when riding outside that when riding on a trainer or rollers. This changes the contact area on my saddle, being tilted puts a lot of pressure on the "soft tissue" area.

This may or may not be the same for you but it would explain the fitting being off.

roadwarrior

Is the stem pointing up or down?

Honestly, if you are not real flexible I'd not worry too much about drop and if the stem is down or flat turn it over. Take you two minutes.

Most would laugh at my setup (because I don't look like Tom Boonen and do my setup off a magazine picture )...I don't like a lot of drop as I like to climb the short steep stuff where I live in the drops. I do stretch...

What has me scratching my head is the saddle. The Antares is designed for someone with medium spine flex...like you can't touch the floor but maybe get to below your knees. The saddle for the less flexible person is the Aliante, which I simply cannot ride because of its shape. I was an Arione guy, super flex (and I can touch the floor with my fingers), but I like the Antares due to its slightly wider shape.

Also maybe Fizik is not for you. And did the fitter check the saddle width to make sure THAT was correct? Many saddle manufacturers have a comfort guarantee after a certain period of time allowing you to return it and get something else. The placard that comes with the saddle normally tells you if a particular one has this guarantee.

Without being able to see you on the bike and just going on your symptoms, and if your stem is pointing down or straight, I'd try to turn it over and not change saddles and see if that helps. Because your symptoms sound like you are bent over too far.

I used to get a lot of crap from teammates when I was racing overseas about my setup, but not much drop works for me.

In addition to what I suggested, you might try wearing two pairs of shorts for a while until your butt gets back to normal.

If that does not work, for gosh sakes call the fitter and tell him. We will check stuff for free if a customer complains or reset things to make sure the are comfortable.

Understand I am guessing a bit, but if nothing else the stem (if it IS pointed downward) adjustment might help a lot.

Let me know the situation, or take a picture of the bike...holler with further issues or questions.

Up North

FWIW, after 4 weeks of pain after a high end fitting. I've returned almost all the adjustments back to pre pro fitting. I have had zero issues over past 2 years and wanted the pro fit to optimize ride. Long story short, right hamstring very unhappy with changes, elbows very unhappy, hands number than ever and shoulders/neck not happy either. Spacers all back under stem, seat dropped back down 2". Pedal shims are only thing left alone for now. My opinion is your body knows best, if it ain't broken leave it alone.

roadwarrior

And this is a really good point...it's why, on a trainer I wear two pairs of shorts because I am not moving around as much and sitting much more upright. More weight on the saddle than when I am outside. That being said....

The fitter needs to DEMAND you ride further forward like you are outside. You have to sit on the bike during the fit like you do outside. And I know I don't sit on my bike on a trainer like I do outside without thinking about it. I don't have to control the bars, steer. etc.

It's like people trying on bike jerseys in the store. They stand straight upright and think a jersey fits. I tell them, "lean forward like you are on your bike and see if the shoulders bunch up and if it still feels comfortable." Half the time it ends up being too small when tried on like that.

Carbonfiberboy 

IME, don't change the fit. He gave you a good fit and said change out the saddle. So do it! I have a tough time finding a good long ride saddle, say 4 hours plus. I once tried 20 saddles before I found The One. Then I bought three. Should have bought 4. So . . . Try a Specialized Romin and not the Evo. That's probably the saddle that works for most folks. If that gives you sit bone pain, try a Terry Fly. That one's dead flat. Performance has some Terry Fly clones and variations that are inexpensive and worth trying. Performance also has WTB saddles that fit many people.

StanSeven

Since you get numbness, do you stand occasionally? Lots if people get numbness from sitting too long on the saddle.

CliffordK

????

Somehow either I misread those numbers, or the changes are different from what you said.

Dropping the seat by two inches is a HUGE drop.

Up North

It was a HUGE Increase but it was what pro fitter said I needed. After the first couple hundred KLM's my hamstring was burning and is still troubling me. I gave it two weeks of solid riding, other than the pains and aches all over it did feel good while riding. I then started to undo most of adjustments back to my previous fit and am recovering. Like I said, your body knows best.

Gav888

Here is a before (top) and after below pics...



Top pic I had my 80cm stem fitted, bottom pic is an adjustable one he uses, but it ended up being 100cm, which is actually what came with the bike from new.

RollCNY

Qualifier: I have no professional "bike fitting" experience and this is just my opinion.

Bend your elbows slightly. Doing that lowers your torso slightly. Lowering your torso pushes your but back slightly. Then balance yourself around the pedals.

I look at a bike like a teeter-totter. The crank is the pivot point, your butt is the big kid, your hands the light kid. You shouldn't be using your arms to push you back in the saddle. They bear a little load some of the time. You need to balance around that pivot, and realize that the crank should be seeing a load similar to the combined weight of both kids.

I test out my weight distribution by occassionally pedaling harder (or mashing as everyone here loves to say), and seeing where that extra force comes from. If I am balanced, much of the weight comes off my saddle, and the bar weight changes from lightly holding me up to lightly holding me down.

Just opinions and a thought process that works for me. Could well be total bull****. Good luck.

Lazyass

Yeah, I don't know where some of these fitters come up with their numbers nowadays. Saddle height seems to have gone up and bar height has gone down.

Fly2High

Gav888, I am not picking on your photos but asking a general knowledge question to the forum based on your photos.

Are you suppose to have your elbows straight or even locked when on a bike? I was of the impression that there should always be some elbow bend








according to this site : BikeFit - Road Bikes

you look rather stiff armed and out straight.




Are you reaching Gav888?

Are you trying to sit more upright in the photos?

What is the reason for the straight elbows?



Frank

Carbonfiberboy 

Bike looks too small to me. Reach should be longer. Fitter did what he could. Probably changed it as much as he dared at one time. Looks like a Retul fitting. Should be a good start. Knee angle looks the almost the same in both photos, maybe a slightly higher saddle in after photo.

Note that in the photos in post 37, there is ~90° between the upper arm and torso when the rider is down with horizontal forearms with hands on hoods and there is little or no knee-elbow overlap in that position. That is the correct road fit. Is that true for you?

wallrat

I say since you haven't ridden longer than an hour for over a month you just need to ride more. Just suffer through a few long rides over the course of a couple of weeks and see if your body adjusts. Your aches and pains could be due to conditioning of different muscles due to your change of fit.

jaymac10

Deleted my comments!

roadwarrior

When I saw the photo that was my thought as well. I figured it was the photo. Either that or the Specialized shorts and the Giant bike...

popeye

Your highly trained, paid professional may know what's best for you but you may
not be able to get there all at once. Make small adjustments over time.

eyewannabike

Contact the guy and let him know you changed. Let him know you haven't been able to ride an hour since. Sometimes people who build up a good reputation can become arrogant to their own failures or problems.

You coudln't ride after the fitting. Ask him for a refund. If he doesn't there's plenty of places to give negative feedback. You've gone out of your way to point out there was an issue. He was too lazy or arrogant to even meet with you to make adjustments. Hold him to account. If he won't budge, file a claim in small claims court for negligence of if you have any friends that are attorneys have them write up a letter threatening a suit. It costs next to nothing. He probably won't want the hassle or bad publicity.

pdedes

You are elbows locked and sitting very upright, even in your fitted pic. Bend your elbows, rotate your pelvis. You should be able to put a 120mm stem on that bike.

FLvector

You do look crowded on the bike, so going from an 80 to a 100mm stem was moving in the right direction. Over time you might decide to go a bit longer, but you have too many things going on at the same time.

Your fitter has taken a very aggressive approach to many changes in your fit and it will take some time for the body to adapt to the new position. It sounds like the fitter is used to working with cyclists who are in great shape, with good flexibility and spend much more time on the bike than you do. This all plays into how quickly you can adapt to the new fit. It seem like a better approach would have been to make more gradual changes, see how you're doing with them, then progress further as you adapt to them. Instead, sounds like you were slammed into his interpretation of your "best fit" and now have to deal with it.

Ideally, I like to change only one thing at a time and try not to make the change too significant. I recently purchased a new pair of shoes and wanted to raise the saddle to accommodate for the stack height. I raised the saddle a few centimeters then went for a ride. After about 15 miles I could tell that I went a bit too far. My hips were not rocking, but I just didn't have the same comfort that I had before the change. I stopped brought it down a few cm's and it felt much better. It will take several rides to determine if this is the position to leave it. Since you've had many things changed all at once, your body will take some time to adapt. Did you fitter go too far? You need to discuss this with him.

asiantrick

This situation is similar to mine. I had a GURU fit on my new bike, and it just totally did not work for me. Glad I didn't pay for it. I scrapped all the adjustment and went back to the basic fit I had on my old bike, and few tweaks here and there after every ride. Now I'm perfectly tune in.

Jiggle

Quickstep rides Specialized. Giant-Alpecin ride Giant.

Gyrine

The bike doesn't fit you - buy a new one.

woodcraft

You said several times that you slide forward on the saddle.

So tip the saddle up (like it apparently was when you were more comfortable).

Neither your crotch nor the saddle really care what the level says- don't let that thing be the boss of you.

Gav888

Thanks for the comments guys, its all appreciated.

I eventually got to speak to the fitter over the weekend, he said the position is as per the ideal ranges provided by Retul, and that the falling forward will be a result of a lack of core stability and its something I need to work on over the next 8-12 months, it doesnt really help now though... He also said you can buy your way out of this with a more supportive saddle, but this wont fix the underlying issues which is correct.

He did recommend something like the Aliante (which I did try) and other brands if I wish to.... that was it really.

However, I have some taken some of the tips you guys have provided and moved my saddle back 5mm to where it used to be, levelled it, and it actually felt better on a ride, I have also put the shorter stem on, 80cm instead of 100cm, and it again feels more comfortable and less like I was over-reaching. I want to take a more long term approach to this, I know where my ideal fit is now, so I will do a bit at a time and slowly adjust myself to the ideal position.

For now I have just lower the bars a bit from my original position, then I will look to put the longer stem back on it and see how it goes.

But I have noticed by moving the saddle back even this small amount to where it was the flat saddle profile I thought I liked was ok, but when I changed the profile to match that of the Aliante, ie with a more raised back it felt nice and comfy in the drops, not so much when on the hoods, but that is most likely my lack of core strength keeping me in that position as he mentioned.

Now I feel like I should re-try the Aliante and the Antares in this new position and see how it goes.

One thing I wanted to check, the saddle height was 76cm from BB to saddle top when the saddle was in the more forward positon the fitter set me up in, but as I have moved it back and also lowered the middle part to adjust the profile the saddle height is now 75.5cm.

Should I raise it 5mm so it fits the original fitment guidelines or as I have moved it back a bit keep it where it is?

I also noticed a bit of a twinge on the left achilles area post ride, but my legs were a little on the tight side before the ride so might be that... but feels cautious about raising it just incase.

Just to add, what I mean by adjusting the profile, my Arione that I use has what I can only describe as a saggy middle, it isnt flat anymore, if I wedge something under it the profile is perfectly flat, if I remove the wedge the shape is more Aliante.... once I am finished playing and trying other saddles I will bin this one, but its helping with testing for now.