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Wind - Cross or head

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Wind - Cross or head

Old 06-09-15, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by RISKDR1
as a competitive outdoor shooter I need to read wind and estimate speed and angle all the time. I think most people over estimate wind velocity. I have had fellow shooters estimate wind speed at 20 mph when in fact my Kestral wind meter calls it at 8. Remember, if you are riding at 25 mph into a 0 wind you effectively have a 25 mph wind in your face. That is not that strong. If you rode into a 25 mph wind I think the average guy would have a hard time going 2 mph for more than a mile, maybe a lot less. Try going 5 mph into that 25 mph wind. That is equivalent to riding 30 mph.
Get prepared for the onslaught, my friend. No one questions posters' claims of wind speed and comes away unscathed.

But regarding your equivalence of 5 mph into a 25 mph headwind with going 30 mph with no headwind, it really doesn't work that way. See for yourself on www.bikecalculator.com In the drops 10 mph into a 25 mph headwind takes about 220 watts. 35 mph with no headwind takes a whopping 770 watts. Or at least so says the calculator.
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Old 06-09-15, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Get prepared for the onslaught, my friend. No one questions posters' claims of wind speed and comes away unscathed.

But regarding your equivalence of 5 mph into a 25 mph headwind with going 30 mph with no headwind, it really doesn't work that way. See for yourself on www.bikecalculator.com In the drops 10 mph into a 25 mph headwind takes about 220 watts. 35 mph with no headwind takes a whopping 770 watts. Or at least so says the calculator.
those calculators don't consider my huge broad shoulders and thick skin which I shall certainly need this morning.
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Old 06-09-15, 08:19 AM
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I've been on plenty of out and back group rides where we averaged 10mph going out and 35+mph going back. Gotta love the plains.
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Old 06-09-15, 08:37 AM
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Plenty of good aviation maps for pilots that give the wind speeds for your area. What I've found is folks from less windy areas do overestimate the wind - here, when the wind isn't blowing you better take advantage of it. Today it's only suppose to be 10 mph - that's only a mild breeze. 30 mph isn't really that uncommon.

I really don't like riding in the wind - but what I was always told what doesn't kill you will make you stronger - except for bears, bears will kill you.
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Old 06-09-15, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by San Pedro
I'd say first head wind and then tail wind home, but the wind would probably change direction on you.
This is my typical experience...
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Old 06-09-15, 09:18 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by RISKDR1
as a competitive outdoor shooter I need to read wind and estimate speed and angle all the time. I think most people over estimate wind velocity. I have had fellow shooters estimate wind speed at 20 mph when in fact my Kestral wind meter calls it at 8. Remember, if you are riding at 25 mph into a 0 wind you effectively have a 25 mph wind in your face. That is not that strong. If you rode into a 25 mph wind I think the average guy would have a hard time going 2 mph for more than a mile, maybe a lot less. Try going 5 mph into that 25 mph wind. That is equivalent to riding 30 mph.
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Get prepared for the onslaught, my friend. No one questions posters' claims of wind speed and comes away unscathed.

But regarding your equivalence of 5 mph into a 25 mph headwind with going 30 mph with no headwind, it really doesn't work that way. See for yourself on www.bikecalculator.com In the drops 10 mph into a 25 mph headwind takes about 220 watts. 35 mph with no headwind takes a whopping 770 watts. Or at least so says the calculator.
Originally Posted by RISKDR1
those calculators don't consider my huge broad shoulders and thick skin which I shall certainly need this morning.

I ride mostly on a path that takes me north-south. 8-15, sometimes 20 mile head/ tail winds are frequent.

At a hard but sustainable pace I'm around 18 with no headwind, with a 15 mph headwind, that's more like 12. This is on an a mtb (calculator agrees).

Unfortunately, my dumb ass can't figure out that the wind is usually coming from the south, and I tend to ride north first... So the second half of my ride is into the wind. Good part, thoug, is that there's no turning back early this way.

25 mile days are disheartening into the wind...
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Old 06-09-15, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by darkhorse75
Ride in a circle and get a bit of everything.
Unless a front comes through midway through the ride and you end up with mostly headwind on the way out and on the way back, which is what happened to me last Saturday during a 73 mile loop ride.
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Old 06-09-15, 10:03 AM
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Around here winds are usually about 16mph with gusts higher depending on weather. There is no shelter to be had.
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Old 06-09-15, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by RISKDR1
what kind of crazy person rides in a 25 mph wind? I would go backwards.
Me, all the time. I pick routes that are less stressful, like avoid a crosswind coming off a lake that will push you into the traffic (made that mistake back in April).

Last year's Westside Dirty Benjamin is the heaviest winds I've ever biked in.

"We here at WDB Central want to tell everyone how amazed we are with the tenacity and "drive" the riders had to show up at the start line on a day that was destined for some challenging weather. You all endured some grimey trails, rain sprinkles that turned into water daggers, and gale force winds that will be known as the Waconia Wind Storm of 2014. Some took the option of the short route, some followed others and found themselves inadvertantly at the end of the short route, some had mechanicals, and some rode the full 100." reference - Dirty Benjamin

Here are the details from a nearby weather station:



I didn't get blown over once.
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Old 06-09-15, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Unless a front comes through midway through the ride and you end up with mostly headwind on the way out and on the way back, which is what happened to me last Saturday during a 73 mile loop ride.
Aw man....this is the WORST...I've had the wind do that to me on longer rides as well. I've seen it start out coming from the S, then rotate over the day to a mid point where it is from the W only to settle from the N. That sucks.
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Old 06-09-15, 01:34 PM
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I hate head and crosswinds. I'd much rather have a climb.

Plus, if it's a 25mph headwind and my top speed is 20, then I'm already going backwards!
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Old 06-09-15, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce19
Tailwinds are just a myth.
I once road in a mythical tail wind. It was a USCF district championship 40 K time trial held in the desert around Lancaster California. There was a monumental tail wind on the outward leg of the out and back course. I was rolling at 29-30 mph and was spun out. Never a very good TT guy I thought i was an animal when another rider blew by me leaving a vapor trail. I rode the fastest 20 k I ever rode. at the turnaround the wind velocity had increased even more and and it ground me down to a 42/18 gear and what seemed like 5 mph. That was the most miserable 20 k I ever rode. It was an absolutely direct frontal wind.
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Old 06-09-15, 02:07 PM
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Wow, that must have been a helluva day.
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Old 06-09-15, 02:24 PM
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I've had a few times where there was a tailwind on the way out, then it shifted and a tailwind on the return. It's a rare event and it usually happens the other way around. I don't mind higher steady winds, its the cross wind gusts that will surprise you.
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Old 06-09-15, 09:21 PM
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If the wind is blowing at 25mph, I say the heck with riding and find something else to do.
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Old 06-09-15, 10:12 PM
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On our tandem we once pulled a long string of single riders into a 25mph wind. 9.3 mph was it - we were about 60 miles into a century with most of the climbing behind us. The string got long because we kept catching people who didn't look so good. No one went around us and we are not a strong team. When we turned around, we were doing exactly 25 in dead air. People went around us just fine.

I'd rather have the headwind half way than a cross wind all the way on the tandem. With a cross wind, we're both out in it. With a headwind our drag isn't much greater than a single when we're all the way down. There's really no such thing as a cross wind. Your speed will pull it ahead. If it feels like a cross wind, it's a tail wind.
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Old 06-10-15, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Mxfarm
Plenty of good aviation maps for pilots that give the wind speeds for your area. What I've found is folks from less windy areas do overestimate the wind - here, when the wind isn't blowing you better take advantage of it. Today it's only suppose to be 10 mph - that's only a mild breeze. 30 mph isn't really that uncommon.

I really don't like riding in the wind - but what I was always told what doesn't kill you will make you stronger - except for bears, bears will kill you.
Don't forget that there's a difference between surface winds, and winds-aloft. Often a big difference.
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Old 06-10-15, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RISKDR1
If you rode into a 25 mph wind I think the average guy would have a hard time going 2 mph for more than a mile, maybe a lot less. Try going 5 mph into that 25 mph wind. That is equivalent to riding 30 mph.
Incorrect.
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Old 06-10-15, 03:06 PM
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thank you. So what?
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Old 06-10-15, 03:32 PM
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Depends on the day.

Originally Posted by mprelaw
Don't forget that there's a difference between surface winds, and winds-aloft. Often a big difference.
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Old 06-10-15, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by RISKDR1
as a competitive outdoor shooter I need to read wind and estimate speed and angle all the time. I think most people over estimate wind velocity. I have had fellow shooters estimate wind speed at 20 mph when in fact my Kestral wind meter calls it at 8. Remember, if you are riding at 25 mph into a 0 wind you effectively have a 25 mph wind in your face. That is not that strong. If you rode into a 25 mph wind I think the average guy would have a hard time going 2 mph for more than a mile, maybe a lot less. Try going 5 mph into that 25 mph wind. That is equivalent to riding 30 mph.
lol, I made like that exact same post a few weeks ago.
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Old 06-10-15, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by grolby
Incorrect.
Minus 10% for rolling resistance. Still pretty close.
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Old 06-10-15, 04:07 PM
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And then there's not a wind but a vacuum like, getting sucked under the wheels of a passing chip truck.
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Old 06-11-15, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jiggle
Minus 10% for rolling resistance. Still pretty close.
No. Not even a little bit close. It's tempting to just add the numbers together, but it's not that simple. Think about it - how much power does it take to stand still in a 25 mph wind? The answer is zero watts, not the power it takes to ride 25 mph. A wind, even a strong one, is not the same as pushing aside still air. Head over to Bicycle Speed (Velocity) And Power Calculator and play with some numbers if you want to see for yourself how it works theoretically. If I plug in my numbers (65.5 inches, 125 lbs, on the drops) and leave everything at the default values, I calculate 495 watts for me to pedal 30 mph in still air. Hold power constant and give me a 25 mph headwind and speed drops to 16.6 mph. That's a substantial decrease in speed, but it's not 5 mph! In order to ride at 5 mph in that 25 mph headwind, I calculate 80 watts. According to kreuzotter.de, then, riding at 5 mph with a 25 mph headwind is equivalent to riding at just over 15 mph, NOT 30 mph. This works the other way, too - turn that 25 mph headwind into a tailwind and you don't get to go 30 mph for the power you would normally need to go 5 (which is the logical conclusion of the same specious reasoning that says 5 mph + 25 mph wind = riding at 30 mph.

There's no doubt that a 25 mph headwind is much stiffer than most people realize, but riding 30 mph is also much harder than most people realize. I have not attempted to measure my actual power output at 30 mph by myself, but even if it is less than 495, I can't maintain anything close to that for longer than about 40-60 seconds. 80 watts or anything in that ballpark, by comparison, is extremely easy even for a small rider like me. 80 watts is such low power that I find it frustrating to go that slow.
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Old 06-11-15, 01:39 PM
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ride 100 miles downwind. post to strava. have the team van pick you up.
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