Gregfl

This is my first post. I am about to pull the trigger on a Tomasso Superleggero, an online purchase. Scouting around the internet I see a lot of negativity to buying online in general and a lot of scorn for the retailer, Giantnerd. So talk me out of it.

Here is some background:

Around 3 years ago I was in the market to replace my mountain bike and found a GT sensor Expert 9r 29r on closeout on giantnerd. Apparently GT was just starting to make this bike with carbon frames and the aluminum was no longer the top of the line, and the bike was around $3200 plus retail, and they were blowing them out for $1600 bucks. My local bike shop had a similar one for over a grand more, also on closeout, so I pulled the trigger online. The shipping was fast, and the bike came pre assembled and pretty much in great shape.

I did have the tires go flat in the first week and when I took it in for tube replacement, the shop said the tape job sucked so they re-did that. That ended my flats. After about 6 months the brakes kept freezing up and my shop sent them in under warranty and I got new brake calipers. Other than that, the bike has been bulletproof and a joy to ride.

My buddy with a $700 trek started having a hard time keeping up with me, I told him where I bought the bike but by then they had no more GTs, so he pulled the trigger on a giantnerd BAMF for around the same coin as I spent.. I think my bike is better, his is a hardtail mind is full suspension with lockout, and his has inferior gears, but the carbon frame is beautiful and he started keeping up with me again, mostly due to both bikes now being 29r.

All in all my experience both directly and through my friend with them has been positive.


I have decided to get back into road biking after a huge layoff. My local bike shop keeps directing me to Treks, but the $1500 dollar trek he has in stock has aluminum frame, Shimano 105 gearing and other pretty basic stuff on it. For $1000 more I can get this bike,

2015 Tommaso Superleggera Shimano Dura Ace 9000 | Giantnerd

sweet 950 gram carbon frame ,carbon seatpost, nice seat, carbon fork, dura ace 9000 and Ultegra 6800 mix,, and a host of just nice looking stuff.

road bike magazine just reviewed it and said this: " I’ll spare you a long-winded and tedious review of how the bike rides and just say that after spending a few weeks on the Superleggera, I really don’t know why anyone would pay much more for a road bike—especially those with no aspirations of becoming a bike racer.

Even if you want to race, the Superleggera is a terrific choice. It’s light, handles sharply, accelerates with authority and rides with every bit as much responsiveness and lateral stiffness as an Asian-made carbon fiber bike with a big brand name costing thousands more."
Bike Review: Tommaso Superleggera Dura Ace 9000 | Road Bike News, Reviews, and Photos

some of the barriers to buying from them I have read:

"randall scott is a crook"

My understanding is someone else has bought the company about a year ago and when I bought my GT he was running the place and I had no problem. I did hear about him going bankrupt in the past (rsbikes).

"the Pre assembly sucks and is problematic"

That wasn't my experience with my mountain bike and the new owner said he hasn't had any issues in 6 months, but acknowledge there were problems in the past.

"tomasso uses cheap chinese carbon"

The road bike article says that they are having their frames built proprietary and this sure doesn't look like a generic frame to me.

"The local bike shop is better"

I believe this is true, all things being equal, and I sure need my guy around because I am incompetent when it comes to working on my bike,
but for the same 2500 bucks he can't order anything even close to this build set. I sat down with him and he scrolled his catalog including any closeouts and it was either carbon frame, crappy gearsets, or Ultegra 6800, aluminum frame.


Last, my lbs bike shop is telling me he doesn't make much money off of bikes anymore and mostly makes money off of service and accessories. I would buy the accessories off of him and use him for service, which is where I think the market is heading anyway.

Someone tell me I am wrong and talk me out of this. Why shouldn't I buy this bike?

dr_lha

How comfortable are you buying a bike you've never seen in person or test ridden for fit?

69chevy

Émonda ALR 6 - Trek Bicycle

This is not only "close" but likely a more wise decision.

The frameset is just over 1000 grams, it won't chip, blister, delaminate, etc..

Cruise ebay for cracked/broken carbon frames..

If anyone has you truly convinced that carbon is "superior" to aluminum, you should remember that carbon came to be for weight savings, not because it's a "better" material.

Aluminum bikes have come a long way since carbon hit the scene. Just because carbon fiber is very expensive, it doesn't mean its better.

Gregfl

My Gt is aluminum and I am happy with it. the carbon frame on this bike is pretty close to that bike. I will look into it now.

Shuffleman

Giantnerd--I have no experience with them but you do and that is far more important. Your experience with them was good so you should feel comfortable moving forward with them again.
If you know your size than buying over the internet is fine and I would not be concerned. I would still go to your local shop for a fit. You may have to change out a stem and you may get lucky and not have to. I would pay the shop $50 for that and whatever the stem costs if necessary. Outside of that, you should be very happy.
I have seen the bike on line but have never seen one in person. I am sure that they are pretty good though.
I would question the Dura Ace though. What is your motivation for that? Ultegra is typically the better buy for the money. I am not sure if there is a quality difference but if there is, it is negligable. There is a slight weight difference but is it worth paying for it if you are not a racer? I would spend less on the bike with Ultegra if it were me.
It sounds like you are set to buy the bike and you should just go for it. They seem like great buys.

kc0bbq

Why do they leave out the one of the best features of the newest generation of Dura Ace/Ultegra and put on 105 5700 brake calipers?

Gregfl

They do have essentially the same bike with all Ultrega and a different seat (different paint job) for $1999. I really have no reason to go up to the dur-ace except that it seems that to upgrade later would cost me a bunch more.

As far as the Trek Emonda, I just went on their website. It is truly a beautiful bike. But the Trek isn't carbon, has no dura-ace components. To compare directly, they have the Emonda 6

Émonda SL 6 - Trek Bicycle


which is carbon and has all Ultegra for $3100. this better Compares with the Tomasso Aggraziato which is the same carbon frame as the superleggero, all Ultegra, and comes in at $1999. Both bikes weigh 16.4 and 16.5 pds respectively. The Trek is $1100 more. Is the Trek $1100 better? This is what I don't know but highly suspect the answer is no. The road bike reviewer says no.
2015 Tommaso Aggraziato Shimano Ultegra 6800 | Giantnerd

If I was buying prestige, The trek wins hands down. I don't think I am in the market for that.

Gregfl

Yep, my question too. I pretty much think they are trying to bring the bike in at a price point. The wheelset isn't the best either. These are the negatives.

69chevy

Trek carbon may not be better, but their frames are fatigue tested to failure. The quality assurance isn't cheap.

Again though, I'm in the camp of "what does carbon do for you if it's not lighter?"

Gregfl

I just went online and asked them via chat. They said they used 105 calipers because the performance of the 105s is really good ( I can't confirm this) but they can bring in the price low and this is easily changed later. I googled the cost (34.99 per unit) and then googled the dura ace calipers ($110 per unit). It seems they cut the cost of the bike by $150 bucks.

As for the wheelset, I googled the Mavics and you can get them for supercheap, like $250 on closeout. I am sure this is what they are doing.



On the other hand, I googled the bontragers and the reviews are bad. So the wheelset may be a toss up.

Bontrager Race wheelsets - clincher Reviews - RoadbikeReview.com

Gregfl

Either is all the advertising and factory sponsorships.

As far as what does carbon do for you? Just sits there and looks pretty.

dtrain

Looks like talking you out of that bike will be a tough task. I got other things to do today, but I will offer this: 6800 is excellent stuff and it's triple points this weekend at Performance. If you are looking for a really sweet value in a slightly less known brand, they would be worth a look. Best wishes.

PiLigand

To join the carbon vs aluminum war:

Carbon and aluminum have both developed a lot since carbon was first used. Both make very good bikes, and it takes a lot of materials background to really understand the differences between the materials. The short version: You get ABOUT what you pay for. Carbon is not a waste of money, but it's not necessary for a good bike. If you really want a carbon bike, get one. They're fun. If steel is real, well okay. I will now endure the firestorm in response to this.

The tomasso looks nice. Sub 1kg isn't too uncommon anymore, so I don't know that it's a killer in that category, but the groupset seems effective if an odd combination. The wells are also nothing fancy (maybe not necessarily living up to Dura Ace) but practically everyone I know has Aksium wheels and they all ride them as dailies. Pretty good price too.
I bought a bike online that was technically a good size. I had never seen or ridden one of the make. I spent a while fiddling with some adjustments, but it's plenty fine now.

69chevy

I agree with dtrain, it looks like you have your mind set.

Those wheels reviewed however are not the ones that come on the Emonda ALR.

Bontrager has redesigned their wheelsets to be tubless capable. This was only two years ago.

I'm not sure there are many negative, crack related reviews.

Gregfl

Nice to know. I really don't have my mind set. I am aware the build is ecletic to try to arrive at a price point, but mostly it looks good. I am going to talk to them about getting dura ace calipers.

indyfabz

1. It's not full DA 9000. As others have noted, what was cheapened are some of the bets parts of the 9000.

2. It's ugly.

How did I do?

Gregfl

Not bad.

I just did a chat, to upgrade the 900 brake pads to dur-ace 9000 was under 200 bucks. all other parts are ultegra grade. That brings it up to 2700.

Ugly is subjective. I think it looks good, but the Trek is truly a pretty bike. The welds in particular on the aluminum frame are awesome.

69chevy

I agree that they both can make for fantastic bikes.

The first rider to win the "Tour" on a CF frame went on to win six more.

Every manufacturer during this dope/transfusion filled fraudulent run all scurried to match the "tech" that was winning these races.

By the time everyone knew drugs won the races, CF was standard on high end bikes, and we all know that if your bike doesn't cost $5k, "it's" slow.

In the mean time, Lance could have likely been winning on a Huffy. Don't get me wrong, if you have a big budget, CF is great. If your money is tight (like looking for a cheap carbon bike) aluminum can be ridden just as fast. As long as you don't weigh yourself down with the money you saved, that is.

GuitarBob

Of course it's not going to be full DA at that price; that seems like a pretty fair price even if it was a full 6800 build. Yes, Aksium wheels are on the heavy side, but they have a reputation as being pretty darned reliable for an entry-level wheel. I have several thousand miles on a set and I have had to do nothing to them. I'd it seems like a lot of bike for the money.

That said, and as others have mentioned, to me the question would be about the quality of the frame and the reputation of the company selling it.

dr_lha

Dura-Ace derailleur with an Ultegra crank looks bad. With Dura-Ace you should either be all-in or not at all. IMHO of course.

indyfabz

It's not the pads that are 105. It's the brakes calipers themselves. Pads and calipers are not the same thing. I just had my Engin built with full 9000. The brakes are awesome. And what about the crank and cassette?

Not always. Some things are objectively ugly.

RPK79

Unless Alias chimes in I don't know how I feel about this bike.

Shuffleman

I would save the money and drop to the Ultegra equipped bike. The $600 difference is pretty substantial and you will probably notice very little difference if any. The 105 brakes are fine. I ride with many riders who have them. The difference between 105 brakes and ultegra is really in the weight not so much the quality. If you buy either bike, you will not have to make upgrades any time soon or even at all unless you just want to. The Trek is a nice bike as well. Is it $1100 better? That is only answered by you. I am certain that nobody on this forum is such a great rider that they would be held back by either bike. If you have no concern for status, as you said, than I suspect that the Tomasso is the winner. In my mind no bike earns "status" anyway. The rider does that. I ride with guys who have "better" bikes than mine and ones that have "lessor" bikes than mine. Some are better riders and some are not. It is never their bike that determines that though. A great rider could take a bike from Target off the shelf and punish those of us with "better" bikes.

GuitarBob

Heh. It's Tiagra-free, so I think it would qualify as worthy of consideration.

RPK79

I just wonder if its unpure state would make it ineligible.