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Bike Weight Reduction and Getting Faster

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Bike Weight Reduction and Getting Faster

Old 06-17-15, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Csdhlhcky
Hmmm, so if a full 6lbs reduction isnt super significant, why do people on this forum fuss about shaving off a few grams by switching out bottle cages/handlebars/etc.? Seems a little overkill unless you're Sir Wiggins going for an hour record. I am obviously new here, so I may be off base with my assessment...
Because 38s can be the difference between first place and 10th place in a race. If you are maxing out your training and diet, then it makes sense to find additional benefits and gains through your equipment no matter how marginal they may seem. And yes, there are many people on this forum who are maximizing their training and diet in pursuit of improved performance on the bicycle. Their top end may not be as high as Bradley Wiggins, but that doesn't mean they aren't working their asses off.
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Old 06-17-15, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cthenn
If that math is correct, that's actually fairly significant. "Significant" is a subjective term, but if you aren't just buying a new bike to commute to school or work, or tool around the neighborhood, then that actually is a lot. Also, you can't really take into account the performance of the bike, which certainly will have some additional effect.
I have been off on my math, but I think this is accurate. This was over 18 minutes though, a 3.2% change.
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Old 06-17-15, 12:18 PM
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Depends on what you consider significant. According to Richard Schwinn it takes 12 pounds to make a 1 mph difference(I'm assuming that's on level terrain), so I would think 5-6 pounds climbing is enough for most people to notice. Even so, it will probably feel like it's making more of a difference than it actually is.
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Old 06-17-15, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cydewaze
My bike recently gained weight. Almost 3/4 of a lb in fact. This came from a saddle swap, thicker (Lizard Skins DSP 3.2mm) bar tape, going from 23mm tires to 25mm, and a few other nick knacks.. A bunch of little things that added up, but I didn't even notice the weight had gone up. What I did notice was how much nicer the new tape, saddle, and tires are to ride. I think it was a decent trade-off.
& that is the big white elephant in the room. Comfort often times leaves you less ragged & better able to perform when necessary...
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Old 06-17-15, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Belly
I would argue that unless you are on top form, I mean really high level of fitness, physical limits will vary so wildly from friend to friend that its highly unlikely that 6lbs will change the outcome of anything. you are better off making certain that everything on your bike is in perfect working order.
Each time we enter a hilly race we are at 'x' level of fitness. At that level, whatever it may be, we will likely at some point be subjected to an attack or acceleration and either keep the wheel or not. If it takes 520w, and you can only make 500, you will be dropped. Six pounds can make that difference, maybe - I'm not going to do the math. When that happens you will have a long, lonely ride by yourself but perhaps your spirits will be buoyed by thoughts of your healthy bank account and happy spouse.

I'm not sure making your bike work properly is at odds with making it lighter.
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Old 06-17-15, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Csdhlhcky
I am 6'1" and I havent weighed myself in about 2 weeks but I should be around 153lbs
Right on. I'm always curious, because some folks who ask about lighter components could stand to lose a bike's worth of weight off their ass.

I wonder if your Sora stuff could be tuned up to shift a little better -- one shouldn't have to go electronic to get decent shifting, although I'm sure it's nice stuff to use.
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Old 06-17-15, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by TobinH
Each time we enter a hilly race we are at 'x' level of fitness. At that level, whatever it may be, we will likely at some point be subjected to an attack or acceleration and either keep the wheel or not. If it takes 520w, and you can only make 500, you will be dropped. Six pounds can make that difference, maybe - I'm not going to do the math. When that happens you will have a long, lonely ride by yourself but perhaps your spirits will be buoyed by thoughts of your healthy bank account and happy spouse.

I'm not sure making your bike work properly is at odds with making it lighter.
20 watts equalling a long lonely ride tells me that this rider didn't have it in the bank, anyway. a little better fitness would have insured he would have been dictating that surge, maybe?
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Old 06-17-15, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
Right on. I'm always curious, because some folks who ask about lighter components could stand to lose a bike's worth of weight off their ass.

I wonder if your Sora stuff could be tuned up to shift a little better -- one shouldn't have to go electronic to get decent shifting, although I'm sure it's nice stuff to use.
I figured, not sure if I could really drop much more weight, I'm fairly thin in comparison to my height as it is! I thought the same thing about my Sora, I have brought my bike to 2 seperate LBS and tried having them tune up the groupset and they cleaned and oiled everything with very minimal difference. I figure at this point I will continue to ride almost daily, and its a worthwhile investment to make.

Easier said to cyclists than unknowing parents! As a 21 year old, it'll take me a decent amount to save up for the bike first
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Old 06-17-15, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Csdhlhcky
I figured, not sure if I could really drop much more weight, I'm fairly thin in comparison to my height as it is! I thought the same thing about my Sora, I have brought my bike to 2 seperate LBS and tried having them tune up the groupset and they cleaned and oiled everything with very minimal difference. I figure at this point I will continue to ride almost daily, and its a worthwhile investment to make.

Easier said to cyclists than unknowing parents! As a 21 year old, it'll take me a decent amount to save up for the bike first
it was mentioned earlier in the thread, new wheels. This really is the best money spent for performance, if that is what you are after. This could take off some weight & give you a much livelier ride.
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Old 06-17-15, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Belly
it was mentioned earlier in the thread, new wheels. This really is the best money spent for performance, if that is what you are after. This could take off some weight & give you a much livelier ride.
As said previously, I am 21 years old and without unlimited income. I have seen several recent forum posts about the new-found higher reliability of Chinese carbon wheels, is this accurate? I have seen some sets going for around $300 on various websites. If these are reliable, I would much rather spend $300 than $600-700 for virtually the same thing.
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Old 06-17-15, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Belly
20 watts equalling a long lonely ride tells me that this rider didn't have it in the bank, anyway. a little better fitness would have insured he would have been dictating that surge, maybe?
Better fitness is always better, but we always only have what we have. As an example: my teammate Mark has a very good sprint, he will beat me every time. I can climb much better, I will beat him on every hill. If he stays with me on the climb, he wins. If we're at a stage race, he can win the crit, do a good flat TT, and then maybe he only needs to hang on to my wheel in the RR. Are you starting to see how the logic plays out? Maybe you would tell him he only needs to have more in the 'bank', but at the end of the race we did what we could with what we had when we started.

We're not talking about grams here, we're talking about 6 pounds.
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Old 06-17-15, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TobinH
Better fitness is always better, but we always only have what we have. As an example: my teammate Mark has a very good sprint, he will beat me every time. I can climb much better, I will beat him on every hill. If he stays with me on the climb, he wins. If we're at a stage race, he can win the crit, do a good flat TT, and then maybe he only needs to hang on to my wheel in the RR. Are you starting to see how the logic plays out? Maybe you would tell him he only needs to have more in the 'bank', but at the end of the race we did what we could with what we had when we started.

We're not talking about grams here, we're talking about 6 pounds.
your point is understood & as I did mention earlier, at a very high level of fitness these differences com into play. At an average level, not so much. I do enjoy the debate . We are both right & wrong. I'll admit it.
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Old 06-17-15, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Csdhlhcky
As said previously, I am 21 years old and without unlimited income. I have seen several recent forum posts about the new-found higher reliability of Chinese carbon wheels, is this accurate? I have seen some sets going for around $300 on various websites. If these are reliable, I would much rather spend $300 than $600-700 for virtually the same thing.
Some of those actually aren't all that light, especially the deep aero wheels. Braking with carbon rims sucks. Your wheelset is probably heavy, over 2000 grams I imagine. Looks for a lightweight aluminum wheelset like these, on sale for like $200:

Vuelta Corsa Lite Road Wheelset
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Old 06-17-15, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass
Some of those actually aren't all that light, especially the deep aero wheels. Braking with carbon rims sucks. Your wheelset is probably heavy, over 2000 grams I imagine. Looks for a lightweight aluminum wheelset like these, on sale for like $200:

Vuelta Corsa Lite Road Wheelset
Would you venture to say the decreased weight of the aluminum rim would provide better performance than the increased aero of a carbon rim? Also, what makes the braking any different on a carbon rim vs aluminum? Thank you for the wheel suggestion by the way, I really appreciate you going out of your way to search for those!
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Old 06-17-15, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Csdhlhcky
Would you venture to say the decreased weight of the aluminum rim would provide better performance than the increased aero of a carbon rim? Also, what makes the braking any different on a carbon rim vs aluminum? Thank you for the wheel suggestion by the way, I really appreciate you going out of your way to search for those!
Are you doing more rides that would benefit from aero vs. weight? They serve two different purposes. Acceleration/climbing means less when you are doing steady state high speed flat rides.
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Old 06-17-15, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by kc0bbq
Are you doing more rides that would benefit from aero vs. weight? They serve two different purposes. Acceleration/climbing means less when you are doing steady state high speed flat rides.
Understood, I guess I need to make some decisions about which I am looking for, as unless I want to spend big money I assume I can't get aero/weight all in one package. This thread seems to be diverting from the original topic, so I'll save the wheel discussion for another time. Thanks to everyone for their input, I am going to check on my finances and attempt to move forward on buying the new bike. Even if there arent huge explicit performance benefits from upgrading, I sure will want to ride a nice new bike and that'll improve me as a rider regardless!

If anyone has more input on the subject, I am very open to suggestions as well!
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Old 06-17-15, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Csdhlhcky
Hmmm, so if a full 6lbs reduction isnt super significant, why do people on this forum fuss about shaving off a few grams by switching out bottle cages/handlebars/etc.? Seems a little overkill unless you're Sir Wiggins going for an hour record. I am obviously new here, so I may be off base with my assessment...
Because we know that all else being equal, the guy with the lightest bike is the fastest.

Until you have the lightest bike, you can blame it on the bike. That is why I say go for the upgrades. Buy the lightest stuff so you have no excuses but the one in the mirror.
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Old 06-17-15, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by thump55
Because we know that all else being equal, the guy with the lightest bike is the fastest.

Until you have the lightest bike, you can blame it on the bike. That is why I say go for the upgrades. Buy the lightest stuff so you have no excuses but the one in the mirror.
I blame it on being 6'2" with a bigger frame that means 170lbs is probably the minimum I can get to.

Tiny people just had to have some place to lord it over the normal-sized folks. When two people have essentially the same average power over a 1 mile, 7% climb and for one that means they're 15/240 and for the other 104/240 on the Strava segment that's oppression and should be illegal! hehe
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Old 06-17-15, 02:09 PM
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Yes. If the new bike makes you happy and there by you think your faster then you will be faster. Eventually you will be a lot faster because you will ride more. But actually no.
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Old 06-17-15, 02:16 PM
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Does it matter all that much to be 20 seconds faster on a 20 minute climb, especially if it costs thousands of dollars? If you are racing then I can see why. Besides, aero is always (almost) faster unless the course is a net uphill thats really really steep.

If you have the money to spend, and it'll make you ride more and make you happy and healthier then I say go for it.
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Old 06-17-15, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by spdracr39
Yes. If the new bike makes you happy and there by you think your faster then you will be faster. Eventually you will be a lot faster because you will ride more. But actually no.
No, you will actually have to exert less watts to go a given speed. You can buy "speed" by reducing your weight and drag.
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Old 06-17-15, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cthenn
If that math is correct, that's actually fairly significant. "Significant" is a subjective term, but if you aren't just buying a new bike to commute to school or work, or tool around the neighborhood, then that actually is a lot. Also, you can't really take into account the performance of the bike, which certainly will have some additional effect.

I think that's a little high. I ran it on Kruezooter, assuming 8% grade (which would increase the difference, and assumed 300 watts. The results with those assumptions are 8 seconds a mile.

Meaningful difference in a race. On a 5 mile climb it might be the difference with staying in contact with the pack and not, but riding recreationally, hardly noticeable.


Also OP, are you sure about that 15.5lb weight. With pedals, it may not be quite as big of difference as you're thinking. Real world bike weights tend to be higher than advertised.
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Old 06-17-15, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Csdhlhcky
I am 6'1" and I havent weighed myself in about 2 weeks but I should be around 153lbs
Dang son, that's light! Are you perchance related to this fellow?
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Old 06-17-15, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Csdhlhcky
No, I am only here for the summer. I live in Chicago and go to school in SW Ohio where there are plenty of hills. Here I am stuck riding overpasses about 50x for a workout...
Do you mean SE Ohio?
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Old 06-17-15, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
I think that's a little high. I ran it on Kruezooter, assuming 8% grade (which would increase the difference, and assumed 300 watts. The results with those assumptions are 8 seconds a mile.

Meaningful difference in a race. On a 5 mile climb it might be the difference with staying in contact with the pack and not, but riding recreationally, hardly noticeable.


Also OP, are you sure about that 15.5lb weight. With pedals, it may not be quite as big of difference as you're thinking. Real world bike weights tend to be higher than advertised.
equals about 3%. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be - the simple ratio of the difference over total weight.

Same speed, about 3% less power. Same power, about 3% more speed. At 8-10 mph the aero drag doesn't count for much.

If it's strictly about weight, that makes it pretty clear cut. If the cost of shedding 5.5 pounds is worth it for 3% extra power on the hill, then go for it.
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