Loz_90

Hi all,

So a little intro on myself as this is my first time posting! I spent many years rowing, and recently got bitten by the cycling bug. While rowing I cross-trained a lot on the bike, so I have a decent aluminium bike which I've trained on a lot...pretty much my work-horse

That one's a 2010 aluminium Bianchi which comfortably gets me through the winters and through long rides. Now that I want to actually compete on the bike, I want to upgrade to something made out of that elusive material (hmmm carbon fibre) and with a racier frame (the more important part of the decision).

I'll primarily be doing shorter sportive "races" with a fair amount of time trialling. With this in mind, I've avoided going for the slightly more comfort-oriented framesets and have been looking at the aero end of the road bike ranges without trying to break the bank.

So far I've come across two options:

Look 675 (not the light), Ultegra 11-speed compact, Ksyrium Elite S wheels £2,700

Cervelo S2, 105 with Fulcrum Racing 3s for £2,200 (discounts on wheel upgrades)

One thing to note before I go on is that I will be replacing the groupsets whichever I go for: will sell on as second hand, as I prefer the SRAM double tap (I know, heresy) system. So the reality is that I will likely get £100-200 more selling the Ultegra gruppo than the 105.

What I'm really looking for here is comments on the frames: do people have experience riding them here? Is there a major difference in your eyes between them? Essentially is the premium on the look worth the extra £500?

Anything you can offer on this front would be appreciated, and please go easy on a guy foraying into the CF world for the first time!

Thanks,

Loz

TrojanHorse

If you're going to race it, you probably don't care about a warranty so you could buy a frame (used even) and put whatever groupset you want on the bike.

Loz_90

I'd initially gone looking at second hand, but then work offered me a cycle to work voucher - once you factor that baby in you're basically at the same price (new vs. second hand) on either frame

Either way, which frame is still the key question

mercator

I'm not sure the Look would be classified as an aero frame, seems more comfort oriented. I've ridden the cervelo and it is nice, albeit a bit more harsh than my TCR.

Other frames to consider: Ridley Noah, Giant Propel, Boardman Air.

StanSeven

Both frames are nice but different. The Look is a comfort frame while the Cervelo is aero which makes it stiffer but faster for time trialing.

redfooj

Canyon

kansukee

I have a 675 and before that I had a Cervelo S5 so I can tell you this: these two frames are like night and day as far as comfort levels go. The Look has the definite edge on comfort and it's actually pretty aero as well even though it isn't marketed as one. In my case I bought the frameset alone since I already had a Record EPS group, wheels and everything else so I saved a big chunk of money. You need to decide what's more important: having that aero dedicated frame for tt'ing knowing that it's a harsher ride, or having a frame that's maybe not so aero but arguably has better build quality along with a nicer ride.

ColaJacket

This ride bikes with frames from these companies and the Specialized / Trek / Cannondale racing and aero bikes.

Figure out which one you actually like when you ride them.

GH

StanSeven

Really good comparison! Having ridden both the S2 and S5, the S2 is more comfortable but the data shows it's nowhere as fast.

Regardless you won't go wrong with either the Look or Cervelo.

Loz_90

Thanks for all the replies, especially the above! I'd be curious to know, when you say "night and day" in reference of comfort - how significant is the difference? Or at least, how noticeable? Assuming I avoid Roubaix-racing with it, will it be ok? I'll be doing the occasional century, but mostly will be focusing on the time trialling / short sportives and using it as my summer bike (for racing and training purposes).

Essentially will the Cervelo kill me over 60-70 miles?

Saw a comment about "build quality" in the cervelo vs. look discussion - are there general poor reports on cervelo build quality?

Thanks again!

kansukee

The first thing I noticed when I got the 675 is how smoother the ride was, even with 22mm tires. If you go up to 25s like I have now (Veloflex Arenbergs) I don't know if you'll want to go back to skinny tires. This thing's build quality is excellent and the fit and finish is flawless. The S5s are known for having ripples in the paint especially around the downtube area where it curves; they are just not as well built imho.

vasuvius

I have a Look 675 Light Ultegra Di2 with 2K miles on it and a Cervelo S1 (aluminum) with almost 10K miles on it.

The Cervelo S2 is pretty much the same as the S1 except it's carbon. I'm sure the material difference will bring added comfort to the S2 over the S1. That said, the S1 is an extremely harsh and stiff ride.

The Look is far more comfortable and while I've done centuries on both of them, I don't get as tired on the Look. I have the Look setup a bit more aggressively than the S1 and ride it harder and faster and still get less tired on it compared to the S1.

I do realize it's not a fair comparison between Aluminum + mech vs Carbon + di2

There is very limited frame/brake clearance on the S1 or S2 for wider tires i.e. I can't fit 25mm Conti GP4000s on 23mm rims on the S1, but they fit perfectly fine on the Look.

milkbaby

Look 675 is their endurance/comfort bike. Cervelo S2 is an aero road bike. Aimed at two different markets.

Keep in mind that the more comfortable you are over the course of a ride or sportive, the more likely you'll be able to finish it in a faster time. Yes, there are some benefits to aero design, but if you take into account that the rider is probably 80% of the aero drag, I would choose the best fitting and more comfortable bike if it's going to be your only bike. I ride mainly 3 different road bikes, and the differences are subtle but there is hardly any difference when riding against other riders in a group. One of my best rides ever was on the heaviest, least aero bike. I have also ridden over 200k on what should be the least comfortable pure racing bicycle and was never hindered by lack of comfort because the bike fit just fine.

Garfield Cat

Try Felt Bicycles, Aero while you are at it.

Also go on the Cervelo web site "forum" and get their input.

sheepdog84

*shameless plug*

I dont think that most any cervelo would kill you over that distance. Most of that depends on your fit on the frame and fitness in general.

I've been riding my Cervelo r5 for a few months now, and to be honest, I'm not sure i would want another frame unless it was completely custom built for me (steel or otherwise).

You also mention wanting to race... the garmin sharp team is sponsored by cervelo, and have almost exclusively raced R5's- even on the Paris Roubaix...

If it's good enough for the pros to race, it's probably good enough for you

Take that all fwiw, but the R5 might be a good compromise between the two frames you're comparing- just sayin


Cheers,
Aubrey

Loz_90

Thanks for the comments Aubrey - much appreciated! I'll be test riding both bikes this weekend and will report back :-)

The only other thing I've found that gets thrown into the mix is one of the old Bianchi Oltres (XR1) with athena and mavic cosmics for £3k...it's not strictly aero, but it's not a full on comfort bike either and generally a good ride from what I've heard.

Looks like my next few hundred kms are going to come from test rides!

merlinextraligh

If you're going to do time trials, and "sportives", you'd be better served keeping your current bike for the sportives, and buying a TT bike for the time trials.

Full on TT bike, with a good aero postion, and front trispoke wheel, and rear disc, will be worth around 3-4 minutes over even an aero road bike riding in the drops with conventional wheels.

For the sportives, going from a decent aluminum bike to a CF bike is going to be a neglible difference.


For the TT bike, figure out your budget. Get the most aero wheels you can afford. HED Tri spoke front, and disc rear is still about as fast as it gets and can be had for a little over $1000.

Then buy the best frame you can with the money left over. But your postion on the bike, and to a lesser degree the wheels are going to make a bigger difference than if the frame is CF or aluminum.

Any decent TT frame with a good TT setup, and very aero wheels, is going to be measurably faster than either bike you're looking at in a TT.

RChung

25mm tires will fit on the new 2015 S2.

I have a 2015 S2, and an old aluminum P2K, which is the precursor of the aluminum Soloist/S1. There's a huge difference between the P2K and the S2 in terms of ride quality, and people who have had both a P2K and a Soloist say the difference between them is small, so my expectation is that the difference between the old S1 and the new S2 would also be large.

Garfield Cat

Yes, Garmin Sharp used Cervelo but then the Garmin team changed to Cannondale Garmin and Cervelo is out. Cervelo is now with a Continental team but will be in the TdF this year with a South African team, first African team in TdF history.

dalava

There are a bunch of WRONG information about the S2 here. Since 2015, the S2 has been drastically redesigned, and it is essentially the same as the S3 with a heavier fork. And the S3 has the same rear triangle as the R3. I have a R5, an S3 and my daughter has the S2, they ride almost the same except the weight.

So, even though the S2 is marketed as aero road bike, to me, other than a bit heavier, it's no different than the R series which is endurance bike.

Loz_90

Thanks Dalava - how have you found build quality on these frames? There's a lot of different experiences noted around the place so would be good to hear your thoughts as someone with R and S series Cervelos

dalava

Let me start by saying that I never had any problems with any of my Cervelo frames and hence never had to use their warranty services.

The R5 I have is 2012 and it is definitely the lightest and best built frameset of all the Cervelos I've owned just by looking at the details. Prior to that, I had a 2008 RS, and it was also a very well built frameset. Then I had (and then sold) a 2013 R3 (the gray color one). I think the quality of that frameset is a tad below the R5/RS, and somehow, it doesn't have the same premium quality feel. It could the paint job or some details. I would say the newer S3 (red/gray)/S2 (black/blue) are about the same quality as the R3. And from what I can see or feel, there are no differences between the S2 and S3.