lyrictenor1

"Felt doesn't mismatch a bunch of cheaper stuff to lower the price."

Hmmm...Sora w/ an FSA crankset and house-brand finishing kit? Try again. Felt Bicycles | Z95

cicatrize

It looks like the F75 doesn't have the 105 brakes, which is odd, since it has the rest of the group. That being said...that is a great deal for what you get on that bike. You even get a CF seat post. I don't know too much about Felt bikes, but on paper, that looks like a great starter bike.

Alias530

Way to be terrible at apples to apples comparisons and post something that's in a completely different price range. YOU try again.

Alias530

Yep. I have a friend who just got one, very nice for the price. He swapped the wheels for Ultegra wheels, sold the stock ones for $80 less than he paid for the Ultegra wheels, and swapped the brakes for 105.

I remember hearing from a bike shop employee (not sure how reputable this is) but Shimano is starting to crack down on manufacturers pulling what Fuji did (calling it an "Ultegra bike" when only 3 of 8 parts are Ultegra or even Shimano of any level) so hopefully we will start seeing more comprehensive groupsets.

lyrictenor1

I wasn't the one making blanket statements, i.e."Felt doesn't mismatch a bunch of cheaper stuff to lower the price." So, since you worded it that way (meaning the company as a practice doesn't mismatch components to meet a price point), you were proven incorrect by the specs of the Felt z95 that I linked.

ColaJacket

Because everyone does not have the same size buttocks. The size and shape of your buttocks and sit bones will determine which seat is the most comfortable. Since everyone is not the same, then different seats will be more comfortable for different people.

Also, it take a little while for your body to get used to sitting on a bicycle seat. So what may be uncomfortable at first, may be more comfortable as you ride it. Also, there may be some issues that show up on 20-40 mile ride that don't show up on 10-15 mile rides. But until you get to riding that distance regularly, you may not notice that you need a new seat.

The Fuji is a perfectly good bike. So is the Trek. So are Specialized, Cannondale, Giant, Felt, Raleigh, etc.

Test ride the bikes. Let the salespeople know that you are trying to road test a lot of bikes at different LBS's, so that you'll know which bike will fit you best. They'll probably be less pushy then, and they'll probably try to find a bike that fits you very well, if they know that you are road testing bikes at different shops (as there have been many posts where people only went to one shop, and they pushed a bike that they were trying to get rid of, that was an ok fit, instead of trying to find the best fitting bike for the person). The shops will probably require that you leave your driver's license or a credit card behind, to make sure you bring the bike back. Most of the shops that I road tested with were backed up to residential neighborhoods, so you could take a couple mile ride.

Also, they may not have the exact bike in your size, so don't be afraid to road test a bike with the same frame/fork as you want, but a different groupset, and if you like it, order the bike with the right groupset (but the same frame/fork).

The big thing is to ride several bikes from different brands before you buy, so you'll have other bikes to compare to.

GH

cicatrize

Everyone does it, unfortunately. Look at the top selling mid-tier bikes like the CAAD10, Allez, Madone, etc. They all claim 105/Ultegra groups, but only come with a few pieces. It's misleading to a recreational cyclist who thinks they're getting some excellent components when they're not. It's rare to even get the cassette and chain to match the group, and those aren't even expensive pieces. I'm glad to see a lot of bikes coming out with full gruppos now like the Emonda line from Trek. I hope everyone starts to follow suit.

Alias530

Not to be a snob but the Z95 doesn't exist in my world, it's worth less than my crankset alone. So, talking about bikes that I'd even consider researching, my statement stands.

Would it make you feel better if I said "Felt didn't do that WITH THIS ONE"? I was talking about my Fuji in the $2k range, why would you think some bike that costs less than half as much would be a fair comparison?

Same story with Specialized in the ~$2k realm - Specialized Bicycle Components ... just about everything is Shimano except the crankset is different because they use BB30 frames and Shimano cranks use a 24mm spindle. Even the $10k S-Works model uses an in-house crank. MUCH better than Fuji's 3 out of 8.

rms13

you keep telling yourself that...

obed7

OP, any of the bikes you listed will work just fine for a first bike. Any of them are more than capable of 40+ miles a day if you are. Do not worry too much about brand at this time. Just go to the lbs that carries the bikes you are thinking about and test ride them all. Then get the bike that feels the best to you in your price range.
I have a Trek, a Ridley, a Giant and a KHS....each bike serves a slightly different purpose and with each one I compared several brands and bought the one that felt the best to me. It is not about brand, it is about feel to you. You will ride the one that feels the best the most.
You said you were looking to be serious about riding, maybe so, maybe not... after you ride for awhile, then you will figure that out... and any of the bikes you listed will last you until you decide it is time to upgrade, and if you do get serious, you will upgrade from any of those bikes...

Alias530

Telling myself what? Having a discussion with someone who doesn't understand how to discuss things is pretty difficult. Your vague posts do not lead to progress in the conversation.

The only thing I said that was not indisputable fact was that the Z95 doesn't exist to me.

Everything else was fact.

Z95 less valuable than my crank - fact (by quite a bit actually)
Specialized uses more items of the claimed component tier than the Fuji I owned - fact
Specialized at any pricepoint uses SRAM, FSA, or Specialized in-house cranks - fact

rms13

The Tarmac you linked has house brand wheels, brakes, and finishing parts. Are you going to tell me Axis brakes are better than Oval? I'm sure they are the same brakes from the same factory (probably Tektro) with a different logo painted on. It also has FSA Gossamer cranks. Yes, that's because it has BB30 but those are still the low end BB30 cranks that are cheaper and inferior to the 105 cranks. Fuji is also using press fit BB so you can argue that's why they don't provide Shimano cranks. You are also talking about bikes that are $700-800 more than OP is looking to spend so your argument is garbage also

PepeM

Be aware that Alias thinks Ultegra is entry level.

Alias530

I already addressed this... go check craigslist/ebay. People can hardly give away Oval brakes/wheels. Nobody knows what they are. If for nothing other than brand recognition and perceived value, the Specialized/Trek/etc are more valuable than Oval. The secondhand market speaks for itself. Even if you had a materials engineer test the Oval wheels and they were somehow proven to be superior, it doesn't matter, resale value speaks for itself.

And "being made in the same factory" is a ludicrous way to form an argument. You know what else is made in the same factory? A Corvette Z06 and a Chevy Aveo. Dura Ace and Sora. Being made in the same factory could not be less relevant.

I'm talking about MY Fuji that *I* owned, speaking from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. There's no denying that 3 out of 8 parts is pretty weak/misleading of them to market it as an "Ultegra bike". The Specialized I linked at least has 5 105-level components, better than 3.

Alias530

PepeM apparently doesn't know that "beware" is a word.

Find where I said that and I'll paypal you $1k. Come on troll, back your words up.

PepeM

We had a full thread of that crap. Don't get all puffed up mate.

Dave Cutter

+1

Bathwater

Compare apples to apples here:
Fuji Bikes | ROAD | COMPETITON SERIES | ALTAMIRA 2.7

When looking at entry level-carbon, the specs are similar. The Fuji has all the same 5800 stuff with the exception of the chain, but comes with Shimano brakes rather than the proprietary Axis brakes.

I've got no dog in this fight, but it's disingenuous to claim certain companies are worse when it comes to mixing groupsets. All companies do it and try to shave costs by using in-house components. That being said, If I were paying full price for entry level carbon, I would go with Felt's F5 for sure. Almost full 5800 groupset (with the exception of the brakes, which are Shmano), comes with a decent name brand saddle, and the frame rides very, very well.

Alias530

Says the one trying to turn this thread into the same thing by quoting me incorrectly. What I said was "of the parts that are actually on enthusiast level bikes, 105 is entry level". Nothing about Ultegra and it was caveated to ignore groupsets that simply aren't found on enthusiast level bikes.

Alias530

If you look back at what I said... I was talking about my Fuji that was at the $2k mark and had very few components at the advertised level so I figured a lower price point would be even worse, that's all. I also said that if for nothing else, Trek will be easier to sell and sell for a higher percentage of original purchase price. Ebay/craigslist/etc speak for themselves. I've had brands like Fuji and brands like Trek/Specialized. My experience has confirmed that the name brands are easier to sell. Just telling the new guy that you get what you pay for and Fuji isn't cheaper because they feel like being nice, dunno how that could even be argued with.

rms13

OK, I'm looking at sold items on ebay

Axis 2.0 new take off brakes selling for $20-30 set with free shipping
Axis wheelset take off from same model sold for $149 with free shipping

Oval Concept R500 brakes sold as high at $29.99
several sets of Oval R900 brakes sold for $169.95
Oval wheelset for $149 up to single Oval wheels for $399
Oval Cranksets from $50 to $179.99 (FSA Gossamer cranks sell as low a $8 on ebay by the way)

Search for yourself for sold listings on ebay to see what people actually pay for those parts. Doesn't seem like people are having trouble selling Oval parts

Alias530

You're clearly comparing higher end Oval stuff than what mine came with.

Take a look at these two...

The 2009 Tarmac Comp was the first Tarmac I could find with an MSRP close to my 2012 Fuji Gran Fondo ($2700 Speshy vs $2800 Fuji). 3 years older and resale value is almost identical AND it has a lower end groupset. How can you even argue that Specialized/Trek/etc command higher resale than Fuji? That's like saying a Toyota is going to have a worse resale than a Saturn, it's ludicrous and laughable.

2012 Fuji Gran Fondo 2.0 - New and Used Bike Value
2009 Specialized Tarmac Comp - New and Used Bike Value

edit:

Here's a 2011 with HIGHER resale than the 2012 Fuji and it almost started $100 cheaper - https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/Searc...41&model=59481

Even this one is TEN YEARS OLD and is barely behind the 2012 Fuji - https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/Searc...41&model=58167

rms13

Bluebook is subjective. Resale is based on a lot of factors and I wouldn't base a new bike purchase on what you could sell it for because its not an investment. I had a 2013 Giant TCR with msrp of $4000 and I sold it for $1100 because that was the market value even though blue book says closer to $2000

dtrain

Not to be a snob hater, but Alias530 doesn't exist in my world. Someone so badly burned and bitter isn't worth the time. Sounds like he runs a nice crankset though.

Alias530

First of all, everyone knows that Giant's depreciate like crazy. Secondly, you're just as likely to be just bad at selling things.

If you go back to my first post--"If nothing else, the Trek will sell for a higher percentage of what you paid for it and it'll be easier to sell."

That is not even disputable. Ask a total stranger "hey, have you ever heard of Fuji? Have you heard of Trek?". For the first question, people will probably think you're talking about film for a camera. I'm not saying saying that Trek IS better, I'm saying it is PERCEIVED TO BE BETTER by the general public. This means it'll be easier to sell and likely at a higher percentage of what you paid for it. You don't have to view a bike as an investment to at least acknowledge that getting more money back whenever you sell is a good thing. If he likes the bikes equally, that might be enough to push him one way or the other.