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Long story about Tubeless Carbon Clinchers

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Long story about Tubeless Carbon Clinchers

Old 07-25-15, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
OP, I wouldn't be surprised if that defect would attack tubes and cause flats in them as well.
Thinking the same thing.
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Old 07-25-15, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnJ80
Sell the rims. Go to tubular. Same end result, less hassle, lighter.

J.
This was what I was about to say! Tubulars take a lot of criticism as being a PIA to mount, etc. BUT, the wheels can be 200 grams lighter, the ride is better, and from my personal experience of riding tubulars for 15 years, often as my every day wheels, I have had 3 flats in total. I have considered tubless but the issues that the OP listed have kept me from doing this. Just purchased a set of Boyd 44s in carbon tubular to replace my old and worn out Rolf wheels.
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Old 07-25-15, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
OP, I wouldn't be surprised if that defect would attack tubes and cause flats in them as well. I still don't understand why you simply don't return the wheels for a refund. This is not your problem, yet you are accepting it. This is between the shop and Reynolds. You properly should have nothing to do with it.
I believe it did attack the tubes because i attempteda ride tubed just before sendng them in and had two blowouts leaving me stranded yet again which has added to my frustrations.
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Old 07-25-15, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
OP, I wouldn't be surprised if that defect would attack tubes and cause flats in them as well. I still don't understand why you simply don't return the wheels for a refund. This is not your problem, yet you are accepting it. This is between the shop and Reynolds. You properly should have nothing to do with it.
+1
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Old 07-25-15, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Fldaves
Get your money back, obvious manufacturing defect.
Ditto. That's not right even if you went non-tubeless.
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Old 07-25-15, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Fox Farm
This was what I was about to say! Tubulars take a lot of criticism as being a PIA to mount, etc. BUT, the wheels can be 200 grams lighter, the ride is better, and from my personal experience of riding tubulars for 15 years, often as my every day wheels, I have had 3 flats in total. I have considered tubless but the issues that the OP listed have kept me from doing this. Just purchased a set of Boyd 44s in carbon tubular to replace my old and worn out Rolf wheels.
Hey, great minds think alike.

I went *back* to tubulars about 5 years ago. I keep detailed records on bike maintenance like a good OCD cyclist. I get about 1/6 to 1/8th the flats I got with clinchers. The last several tires I've had on the bike have gone down to the threads and were replaced without ever getting a flat. Flats are just a non issue with me now. If I do flat, I carry some of the Tufo extreme sealant to fix the tire and get me back home. If I'm riding with no one around to help me from home, I carry an extra tire in a Arundel pack that is pretty aero and pretty petite. I've never had to use the extra tire yet.

I can change a tubular about as fast as I can change a clincher. It's pretty simple especially with some of the tapes that are out there. I've used Tufo tape for years but recently switched to Effeto Mariposa's new tape that comes off perfectly clean from the rims and is enthusiastically recommended by Leonard Zinn for even cyclocross usage. For tires, I run the Tufo Tubless tires with some sealant in them. It's just so easy and there are so many less problems than with clinchers plus the ride is better, I don't have to worry about a flat and the tire coming off the rim and getting caught in the frame, and the an Aluminum wheelset is about the same weight as a carbon clincher wheel set. What's not to like?

J.
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Old 07-25-15, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by dvdslw
That idea has crossed my mind and I'm almost certain that filling the void with epoxy then sanding it smooth would solve the problem but would I then be voiding my warranty with Reynolds? I could contact them and get written approval before I proceed and have them send me some rim tape? Good Idea!
Haw, just do it and then if NG send them back. If they ask about it just say, "I've never heard of THAT happening before." Haha
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Old 07-26-15, 05:19 AM
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I personally am done with carbon clinchers. I own 2 sets, and both sets have had issues. Carbon tubulars, fine. Alloys or alloys with carbon fairings, fine. Even my tubeless wheels have been fine. It's just not worth it to spend a ton of money on carbon clinchers and have all these dam problems. And I am running this stuff tubed! I can't imagine adding another level of problems by trying to make them tubeless!

OP, I'm sorry you're stuck. I don't think there's an easy way out. Just learn a lesson about carbon clinchers.
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Old 07-26-15, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Silvercivic27
I personally am done with carbon clinchers. I own 2 sets, and both sets have had issues. Carbon tubulars, fine. Alloys or alloys with carbon fairings, fine. Even my tubeless wheels have been fine. It's just not worth it to spend a ton of money on carbon clinchers and have all these dam problems. And I am running this stuff tubed! I can't imagine adding another level of problems by trying to make them tubeless!

OP, I'm sorry you're stuck. I don't think there's an easy way out. Just learn a lesson about carbon clinchers.
Funny you say that, because I've been reading this thread thinking that I'm happy to hold my course waiting for American Classic to figure out carbon tubeless before buying any.

I recall reading AC's Bill Shook about two years ago saying that the tech to properly form carbon tubeless rims just wasn't there yet. Not that it couldn't be done, just not to his standards for AC products.

I don't know if he's right, but he's a guy whose views and opinion on design and engineering I really trust, so until another company proves him wrong, I plan to hold pat on carbon tubeless.

One of my ride buddies has these new Assault SLGs which he runs tubed, and seemingly without issue, though I've not talked him specifically about them.
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Old 07-26-15, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
Funny you say that, because I've been reading this thread thinking that I'm happy to hold my course waiting for American Classic to figure out carbon tubeless before buying any.

If recall reading AC's Bill Shook about two years ago saying that the tech to properly form carbon tubeless rims just wasn't there yet. Not that it couldn't be done, just not to his standards for AC products.

I don't know if he's right, but he's a guy whose views and opinion on design and engineering I really trust, so until another company proves him wrong, I plan to hold pat on carbon tubeless.

One of my ride buddies has these new Assault SLGs which he runs tubed, and seemingly without issue, though I've not talked him specifically about them.
If you recall about three months ago I pm'd you about your Argent's and was leaning heavily toward getting a pair but I'm the type to not buy anything without some kind of deal and nobody was discounting the Argent's at the time so I chose the Assaults which were discounted plus the free two year crash replacement program. Last week Performance had a 15% off American Classic wheels and if I had the money I would have got a pair. Bill Shook and the folks at American Classic have the Tubeless gig figured out and the fact they of all people don't offer a tubeless carbon clincher says a lot. But then again, look at Bontrager's Tubeless Carbon Wheels and Easton's Aero 55's? They are a thing of beauty when you hold them in your hand and the finish is smooth as silk inside the rim channels but they also retail for about $1,200 more per set.

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Old 07-26-15, 06:56 AM
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another example is Mavic. They don't offer a carbon clincher and probably never will. The closest they've gotten is the 40c the hybrid alloy/carbon rim. They were also super resistant to wide wheels and were probably the longest holdout in the industry. They're finally making some wide wheels. A lot of people bad mouth Mavic for various reasons, but I have to say I've never had a major problem with a Mavic wheel that needed to be sent back to Mavic. I've sent my Enves back and had a rim replaced, and I've also sent my Zipps back. I passed up a deal on the 40cs and bought Enves instead mainly because I wanted the wider rims. In retrospect, maybe that was a mistake...
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Old 07-26-15, 07:00 AM
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spending thousands of dollars on this hobby is bad enough, and spending thousands of dollars on stuff that doesn't work and/or is unreliable is very frustrating, and to me personally, is unacceptable.
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Old 07-26-15, 07:02 AM
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Or maybe I just need to break down and finally buy some Lightweights (yeah, right)
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Old 07-26-15, 08:05 AM
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@dvdslw Good points re: Bontrager and Easton tubeless carbon (TLC?!); Easton I'm a little wary of, as they've put out some half-baked stuff in the past (though admittedly I have to go far back in my cycling history for personal experience, back to the CNC MTB days) and just don't sit high on the "trust scale" for me. Bontrager, though, I always forget about since their aftermarket presence seems so limited. I suppose, particularly given Trek's resources, that they've really engineered some good product.

What is the word on Bontrager's "tlc" wheels? I know nothing about them.
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Old 07-26-15, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster
@dvdslw Good points re: Bontrager and Easton tubeless carbon (TLC?!); Easton I'm a little wary of, as they've put out some half-baked stuff in the past (though admittedly I have to go far back in my cycling history for personal experience, back to the CNC MTB days) and just don't sit high on the "trust scale" for me. Bontrager, though, I always forget about since their aftermarket presence seems so limited. I suppose, particularly given Trek's resources, that they've really engineered some good product.

What is the word on Bontrager's "tlc" wheels? I know nothing about them.
Bontrager went all in with tubeless and have a complete lineup from inexpensive aluminum, lightweight aluminum, 50mm aluminum with carbon fairing, 38mm carbon, 50mm carbon, not to mention tubeless conversion kits and their road tubeless tires have had great reviews. I have a set of Easton Haven's on my 29er and they've been bombproof under my 225lb weight. Easton also sent out a voluntary recall on the rear hub and they sent me a shipping label, had the wheel for two weeks and sent it back to me re-laced with the updated hub, great customer service and their quality for me has been above average. I will say that because I ride a Cannondale it's tough for me to choose the Bontrager product because it just seems at home on a Trek but that may soon change?
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Old 07-27-15, 02:58 AM
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I'm old enough that Bontrager is the man, Keith Bontrager, not just a brand. I've been around long enough that I had Bontrager built bikes, a Race and Privateer. He is a pioneer, and his wheels and forks forever changed the MTB world.

However, that was a long time ago, and he just didn't retain an image as a premier "idea man," especially after the Trek buyout. I got ride of my Privateer because the 1" headset was pretty much behind the times when it was built in '93. The bike flowed sweet, though:

Anyway, I felt akeith got lost at Trek, and the name became just a brand; and my "tust level" dropped. So ai I wonder, what does Keith know about tubeless? Has he looked at tubeless design and applied his own ideas?

I dunno...i need to do some research.
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Old 07-27-15, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gsa103
Yeah, just get your money back. I had a similar issue when I tried to use non-Shimano valve stems on my C24s, the rim dip is the wrong shape for the stem base, and I couldn't get a good seal. Works fine with Shimano stems, unfortunately, those don't have removable cores....grr...
the Stans Valves work great with those wheels, and they have removable cores, you just have to carry everything from the original Shimano valves over though or they don't seal well...
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Old 07-27-15, 09:19 AM
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I had heard quite a few similar stories regarding Reynolds lack of consistency and that is why I went with November Rails. Great wheels. Sorry you've had to endure the experience OP.
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Old 07-27-15, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by cale
Not a great idea but could you sand the seam flat and give it one last try? You should not be expected to do this, they're tubeless wheels, but if you found out that you could get a proper seal, it would fulfill your wishes and if NG, then you still have the return option.
This is close to what I would do. You spent a lot of money for these wheels. You know the defect and what it's doing. I would sand/lightly file any raised areas and use a good epoxy to fill in any low spots and basically reconstruct the profile as you would want it to make it work. This will obviously void any warranty, so you're only other choice is to keep sending them back.
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Old 07-27-15, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mvnsnd
This is close to what I would do. You spent a lot of money for these wheels. You know the defect and what it's doing. I would sand/lightly file any raised areas and use a good epoxy to fill in any low spots and basically reconstruct the profile as you would want it to make it work. This will obviously void any warranty, so you're only other choice is to keep sending them back.
I'm not sure it would void the warranty any more than a "sealant" problem. Yes, the owner took measures to ensure a airtight seal but it hardly qualifies as a modification or even destructive. Not meaning to be difficult but I would say the OP has given ample opportunity for the vendor to make good on the product claim.

As a vendor to clients that demand quality, I check my goods carefully and if there is ever a problem, I personally inspect the replacement product. A situation like this suggest an extremely casual attitude towards customer service, IMHO.

All things considered, my idea is probably one of the worst.
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Old 07-27-15, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mvnsnd
This is close to what I would do. You spent a lot of money for these wheels. You know the defect and what it's doing. I would sand/lightly file any raised areas and use a good epoxy to fill in any low spots and basically reconstruct the profile as you would want it to make it work. This will obviously void any warranty, so you're only other choice is to keep sending them back.
I did get a two year "no questions asked" crash replacement warranty with the purchase for free so if I have trouble later on after doing the fix I'll just run them over with my truck and send them in for a new set!
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Old 07-27-15, 08:02 PM
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**UPDATE** The shop owner called me this evening where I bought the wheels and said bring them back for a full refund! I was somewhat speechless after he told me that but I will be looking to buy a replacement set this week and will of course start a new thread called "which wheels"? The only catch is store credit but he said I can choose anything in stock or he'll order something in so my options are endless and their prices are always good. For anyone here in Central Florida, if you haven't already, take a look at Winter Garden Wheel Works.
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