mikeronson

I found a few hills that are the steepest, shortest hills I've ever attempted to ride. They are roughly .10-.13 miles long and if my math is right they are between 14-20% grades. I used publicly available elevation data so cannot be 100% sure if it's accurate. My GPS said the elevation gain was 156ft but the public data suggests it's only 98ft.

Anyhow, I put my street/city bike (10speed) into the lowest gear and managed to climb two of the three hills- the problem had to do with losing momentum than my legs or lungs giving out. The incline was so steep that the only way I could get up these hills was to zig-zag to get up enough speed to stay on the bike. There was zero chance of me climbing an incline like this straight, irrespective of how many gears my bike had.

Was wondering how others do climbs like this...Generally I ride sitting down until I start noticing I am quickly losing speed, then I stand up. I have a tendency to use my arms a lot to pull up on the bars (they're straight bars on my street bike)..I'm pretty sure that's bad technique (my arms can hurt a bit for the next day or so) but I haven't figured out another way to maintain momentum on climbing such steep grades.

Tips, experiences?

Thanks

ThermionicScott 

The number of gears doesn't matter -- having a low enough gear does. What stuff is installed on your bike? I've been able to climb several 18% hills seated with a 38/28 (35" with my 26" tires) low gear, and lower gears would have made it easier.

chasm54

Yes, what's your gearing? A 15% gradient is steep, but not utterly hideous. If you're forced to paperboy (zigzag) it's highly probable that your bike isn't appropriately geared for hard climbs.

spdracr39

Stand up before you lose so much momentum and don't pull on the handlebars so much.

mikeronson

This is one of my street bikes- A 1960's Atala for tooling around urban areas..., almost all original- Suntour V GTluxe... 27 1 1/4 Gatorskins with (very) heavy pinch flat tubes, alum wheels, etc.

Thanks

therhodeo

But what gearing does it have?

JerrySTL

1. Train for such hills by riding them often or doing intervals. Train riding while out of the saddle.

2. Lose weight either off the body, bike, or both. (I should take my own advice on this one and I do have a light bike.)

3. Get lower gears.

4. Some combination of the above.

bruce19

The worst short grade I've done here is 21% but I'm not sure how long it is. I've done it on my Guru road bike at 2-3 mph. When they are that steep I get as much of a roll as I can and then I stand and do the best I can.

mikeronson

I have no idea- I'd have to do some measurements of the Atala and get back to you.

mikeronson

Thanks...

ThermionicScott 

I found your other thread, very nice score. Looks like you've got a 52/42 crank with 14-28 freewheel. There's a few options for lower gearing, the easiest would be to find a 5-speed freewheel in 14-32 and thread that on. There's some good used ones out there, otherwise it looks like IRD makes a 13-32. Shimano makes a 6-speed 14-34, but you'd need to spread the frame and respace the rear axle for that. Another option would be to replace the crankset with one that has a smaller inner ring, or actually, looks like you could just replace the inner ring with a smaller one in 110BCD (a 34T can be found cheaply). Hope this helps.

chasm54

Good research, and good advice later in your post.

OP, a low gear of 42-28 would make a 15% gradient feel pretty tough to all but the strongest, so it isn't surprising that you are wrestling with the bike.

gregf83 

There's nothing wrong with using your arms to pull up on the bars. That just means you're sprinting. What you likely need to do is to spread out the energy you're expending over a longer period and not wait until you slow down before increasing power. Next time as soon as you're near the base of the hill start pedaling hard. Keep shifting down, staying seated, but pedaling very hard at a high cadence (~100rpm). Once you get to your lowest gear and down to around 90 rpm, stand up and sprint as hard as you can to the top.

If that doesn't work, you'll need lower gears. It also helps if your feet are clipped in.

merlinextraligh

Agree on using the arms.

Sustained climb, relaxed upper body is most efficient.

But for short efforts, out of the saddle recruiting all your muscles is going to give you the most power. Pull up with you arms, and pull up on the opposite pedal as you push down on the power stroke , you'll be able to muscle up a tenth of a mile climb in a bigger gear than you could sustain on a longer climb.

Also carrying g speed into the climb, and maintaining momentum is huge on short steep climbs

Jakedatc

Agree.. we have a .2mi 18%(140') thing near me that I hit going about 20mph from the flat then drop to my inner ring and stand up immediately and hammer it with 36-23/25 out of the saddle. For any kind of a hill waiting until you get really slow isn't going to help. being able to transfer from seated to standing is important.

Smaller inner ring for sure will help.. put a 39 on at least.

Mandeville

Certainly 14-20 percent is steep on a road bike regardless of the rider. For anyone over thirty we are all handicapped by how old we are as well as how much we weigh. Absent health issues that will limit optimal performance no matter how fit we get. That said:

In climbing any hill but particularly short and steep ones how much speed we can carry into the start of it has a huge impact. If you cannot carry a lot of speed than given all of the above on hills that are short one wouldn't expect the degree of difficulty that you having. Those are really short hills. So I will assume you have some fitness, health, or weight issue. (Pure speculation based upon you state.)

I'm old and very tall so even though I'm not overweight I'm heavy. I'm very fit. When I climb a 1.5 mile hill that is mostly 14 percent except for the last .2 mile which is 11 percent max I climb the 14 percent part with a 34/28 gear, (ring/cog.) The first .1 mile is hard work but not a strain. Starting after that I'm working harder and harder until about .2 from the end when it flattens out for about .1 mile before starting up again at 11 percent which is a lot easier than 14 percent. When climbing the 14 percent I'm only going about 4 mph and low cadence. That's pretty slow but the best I can sustain for the climb.

Regardless of all the weight, health, fitness et. al. stuff one thing is the same for everyone is you have to the right or "easy" enough gearing to climb whatever you tackle. So for instance with my bike my easiest cog is a .32T. If the hill I described was steeper than I'd have to use that 32 instead of the 28.

Summary: Everyone that cannot climb a certain short hill without bonking or toppling over due to lack of forward momentum needs in such a circumstance easier gearing IMO.

FBinNY 

There's two ways to climb short steep hills, and the better depends on you're peak power, how long you can sustain it, and the length of the hill.

Obviously one way to climb any hill is to have a gear low enough that you can sustain the effort until you crest it. In borderline cases you can make the hill shallower by using slalom technique, but that depends on road width and traffic, and you still have to be able to power through the turn where you're pointed straight up.

The other it so attack it with brute strength and speed. For hills that I deem "bite size", this is my preferred technique. Attack, hitting the bottom with whatever speed I can muster, then downshifting as I climb, but using all my sprint power to hang gears and maintain momentum as long as possible before each downshift. At the end, It's all about whatver torque I can still generate as I crest.

Self knowledge is the key to the second method, because if you think a hill is bite size and it isn't, it's comparable to what happens when you take too big a bite out of something and can't chew and swallow it.

BTW- hills like this, and taller steep poorly graded hills are why I prefer road gearing with a bailout granny (triple) for touring where I don't know the terrain. My triple is basically the same gearing I use on my sport bike, so I ride it the same way 98% of the time, but I have that unused low range for when I need it.

Homebrew01

The shorter and harder the effort, the more your arms can help, especially if also clipped in, and out of the saddle.

Silvercivic27

I think the key here is going to be a new set of climbing wheels and Di2.

GuitarBob

A man after my own heart. New wheels and doping would be my recommendation.

mikeronson

This is the best reply ever.

mikeronson

I ride about 200 miles a week, all city. I ride centuries semi-monthly on my own ("country") and I'm pretty much in "peak" physical condition sans the g&t's I end up consuming way too many of on the weekends- that and my love for aged meats and sulfites.....That said my resting hr is 40bpm etc...I'm in pretty good shape.,.I think ..No Tour rider but I average 28mph on flat for pretty long hauls.. I'm 40.

Anyhow, my issue with these hill(s), I think, has to do with lack of momentum. I'm not running out of energy, I'm running out of speed. The hills *start* on an incline so there's no getting up speed unless I want to tear around a corner (of which the lead up to the hill is also a hill). What I'm referring to is (my) inability to apply any more torque to the pedals. There's just too much gravity and/or gear issues or wheel issues or a combination of the three. I challenged a guy with some fancy bike- several thousand dollars worth of carbon and pretty shoes to climb it. I'm waiting on his report. I have an outstanding bet of $50 to anyone that can climb all three of these hills I'm talking about with a 10 speed in one day. Nobody's won yet. On the other hand, maybe they don't care...

FWIW I'm 2 out of 3 on my 3 hill challenge. The middle of the three (they are parallel blocks to each other) is a killer. Tomorrow.

Thanks all for your advice and expertise. I assume nothing.

KantoBoy

Watch tons of the Ardennes classic races and take some notes.

mikeronson

Can you please elaborate on the "bailout granny (triple)" text? What is that?
Thank you.

gregf83 

Not many tour riders can do that so you may have missed your calling.