Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

REVIEW: Bikes Direct Motobecane Gran Premio Elite

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

REVIEW: Bikes Direct Motobecane Gran Premio Elite

Old 08-08-15, 04:23 PM
  #26  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,367

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3071 Post(s)
Liked 1,624 Times in 999 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Almost all bike makers use effective seat tube as the nominal size. Effective seat tube is the distance from the BB to the top of the effective top tube. So if you understand ETT, you also understand EST. BD doesn't size that way. They use actual seat tube which is a problem on sloping top tube bikes.
A quick peek at Cannondale and Specialized reveal that neither of them do (at least fo S6Evo and TarmacPro).

Really, who uses EST? I've never seen it, and don't understand why it would be used.
chaadster is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 04:59 PM
  #27  
Senior Member
 
link0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 794

Bikes: '11 Merlin Extralight, '98 Dean Castanza, '89 Schwinn Prologue

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 12strings
thanks for info on the wheels, It's hard to find solid info on them. They would likely be my first upgrade anyway. People here are raving about the Vuelta Corsa lites you can get for 200-300.
I've commuted on Vuelta Corsa Lites for two years. Fantastic hubs and they are still perfectly true. Best lightweight everyday wheels for the money, easily.
link0 is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 05:11 PM
  #28  
Senior Member
 
cale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,250

Bikes: Kuota Ksano. Litespeed T5 gravel - brilliant!

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Almost all bike makers use effective seat tube as the nominal size. Effective seat tube is the distance from the BB to the top of the effective top tube. So if you understand ETT, you also understand EST. BD doesn't size that way. They use actual seat tube which is a problem on sloping top tube bikes.
It was true for me, that the sizing was different than I was used to. But the site is very clear on sizing options and shouldn't confuse the careful buyer.
cale is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 06:12 PM
  #29  
Bike Junkie
 
roccobike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South of Raleigh, North of New Hill, East of Harris Lake, NC
Posts: 9,622

Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Specialized Roubaix, Giant OCR-C, Specialized Stumpjumper FSR, Stumpjumper Comp, 88 & 92Nishiki Ariel, 87 Centurion Ironman, 92 Paramount, 84 Nishiki Medalist

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 37 Times in 27 Posts
OP, First I think you bought the right size frame. For those who insist you should have bought a larger frame, consider that a Giant OCR-C bike with a 50cm seat tube is a "medium" for folks 5'8". If you need to change the stem, go for it, but when buying a bike on-line, I'd stay with the manufacturer's recommendation. As for the brakes, yes 5800 would perform better than Tektros, but consider that upgrading the pads to orange Kool-Stops would give you much more braking power. They also make 50/50 black/ orange compound pad that is very effective. I made this change based on another BF member recommendation when I was considering Shimano brakes and found it very effective. I still have Tektro brakes on my Giant and upgrading the brake pads was a lot less expensive.
As for changing a saddle. Many serious cyclists change their saddle, it's one of the first items to be changed. Once you find a saddle you like, remember it for your next road bike.
The Gossamer crank is a good quality crank that will last you for a long time. However, it is heavy. I purchased a compact Gossamer when I changed from a triple to a double. This year, I changed to a Shimano 6700, much lighter.
Good luck with your bike, glad you are satisfied.
__________________
Roccobike BF Official Thread Terminator
roccobike is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 06:14 PM
  #30  
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster
A quick peek at Cannondale and Specialized reveal that neither of them do (at least fo S6Evo and TarmacPro).

Really, who uses EST? I've never seen it, and don't understand why it would be used.
It is not explicit, it is implicit. Look at the Tarmac in 54 cm size. Where do you think that number comes from? Do you think the EST is 48 cm, the actual size of the seat tube. No, it is just about 54 giving a rationale for the nominal size. But the BD actual seat tube is the size. Giant's M size is clearly a 54 while the actual seat tube is 50 cm. The drop between the EST and the actual is just about 4 cm. the nominal size numbers come from somewhere. The two most common possibilities are the EST and, much less frequently, the actual sest tube.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 06:18 PM
  #31  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,367

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3071 Post(s)
Liked 1,624 Times in 999 Posts
Trek does not use EST either.

Clearly, if EST even exists, it's not used by "nearly every" (or whatever rpenparker asserted) manufacturer if the three largest American bike brands don't use it.
chaadster is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 06:19 PM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by roccobike
OP, First I think you bought the right size frame. For those who insist you should have bought a larger frame, consider that a Giant OCR-C bike with a 50cm seat tube is a "medium" for folks 5'8". If you need to change the stem, go for it, but when buying a bike on-line, I'd stay with the manufacturer's recommendation. As for the brakes, yes 5800 would perform better than Tektros, but consider that upgrading the pads to orange Kool-Stops would give you much more braking power. They also make 50/50 black/ orange compound pad that is very effective. I made this change based on another BF member recommendation when I was considering Shimano brakes and found it very effective. I still have Tektro brakes on my Giant and upgrading the brake pads was a lot less expensive.
As for changing a saddle. Many serious cyclists change their saddle, it's one of the first items to be changed. Once you find a saddle you like, remember it for your next road bike.
The Gossamer crank is a good quality crank that will last you for a long time. However, it is heavy. I purchased a compact Gossamer when I changed from a triple to a double. This year, I changed to a Shimano 6700, much lighter.
Good luck with your bike, glad you are satisfied.
Of course he bought the right size. My point was that he actually DID buy one size up when figured like most companies do. Thst's why the bike is the right size. No one was suggesting the bike size is wrong for him, only that the sizing is confusing compared to other brands.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 07:47 PM
  #33  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,367

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3071 Post(s)
Liked 1,624 Times in 999 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
It is not explicit, it is implicit. Look at the Tarmac in 54 cm size. Where do you think that number comes from? Do you think the EST is 48 cm, the actual size of the seat tube. No, it is just about 54 giving a rationale for the nominal size. But the BD actual seat tube is the size. Giant's M size is clearly a 54 while the actual seat tube is 50 cm. The drop between the EST and the actual is just about 4 cm. the nominal size numbers come from somewhere. The two most common possibilities are the EST and, much less frequently, the actual sest tube.
I don't know what you're talking about. Trek clearly indicate seat tube length as measured center to top.

Neither they, nor any of the major brands, use anything called EST. i believe this is something you made up, and is in any case, a useless concept.

As for how Trek arrive at frame size designations, that's another matter not directly related to seat tube measurement methodology, and nothing to do with any so-called EST contrivance.
chaadster is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 08:34 PM
  #34  
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster
I don't know what you're talking about. Trek clearly indicate seat tube length as measured center to top.

Neither they, nor any of the major brands, use anything called EST. i believe this is something you made up, and is in any case, a useless concept.

As for how Trek arrive at frame size designations, that's another matter not directly related to seat tube measurement methodology, and nothing to do with any so-called EST contrivance.
Okay, you tell me what size 54 means from Trek. Then tell me what size 51 means from BD. Where do the numbers come from. Open your eyes. Use your brain.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 10:30 PM
  #35  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,367

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3071 Post(s)
Liked 1,624 Times in 999 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Okay, you tell me what size 54 means from Trek. Then tell me what size 51 means from BD. Where do the numbers come from. Open your eyes. Use your brain.
54 is the frame size, not the seatpost length. Look at the geometry charts; it will clear up your confusion. Also sticking to the standard terminology and definitions, rather than making up your own, will help alleviate confusion.

I don't know what BD's 51 means, but if I cared to know, I'd look at the geometry chart. See how that works?
chaadster is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 11:00 PM
  #36  
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by chaadster
54 is the frame size, not the seatpost length. Look at the geometry charts; it will clear up your confusion. Also sticking to the standard terminology and definitions, rather than making up your own, will help alleviate confusion.

I don't know what BD's 51 means, but if I cared to know, I'd look at the geometry chart. See how that works?
That is like saying, "36 is the pants size, not the waist size". What do you think the bike size means...at least roughly?

This is ridiculous. When top tubes were horizontal, the size was the seat tube (not post) length either to the center of the top tube or to the top of the top tube...in most cases. If you rode a 54 cm bike back then, and haven't changed your riding style or shrunk too much from age, you most likely would ride one now. Certainly I still do. So with a sloping top tube, the actual seat tube length no longer corresponds to that same size as it used to. So what measurement does correspond to that size? The seat tube length extended all the way up to the top of the effective top tube, just as if the top tube were still horizontal. That is the effective seat tube length. I didn't make it up. Most bike brands gives their bikes nominal sizes based on their correspondence to bikes sizes that were formerly based on seat tube length WHEN TOP TUBES WERE HORIZONTAL. That seat tube length used to be the actual length, but now it is more properly called the effective seat tube length.

Just a few brands give their bikes nominal sizes that are based on the shorter actual seat tube length. BD does that. So their 51 cm bike fits like most other brands 54 cm bike. (Their top tube doesn't slope very much, hence only a 3 cm differential between actual and effective seat tube length. This really isn't rocket science. Why are you so insistent on not seeing what is staring you right in the face?

As far as looking it up on the geometry chart, that is the key to understanding what I am saying. If you did it, you would understand. If you don't care to look it up, why are you arguing with me?

I'm just trying to help OP understand that his 51 cm BD bike is about the same size as a 54 cm bike from most other brands and why that is the case i.e. because BD uses a different sizing system than we normally see. I'm trying to help him. I can't see how your denying the obvious is helping at all.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...

Last edited by rpenmanparker; 08-08-15 at 11:11 PM.
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 11:19 PM
  #37  
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
Just so nobody thinks I made it up:

"The effective seat tube length is the distance between the bottom bracket and the point at which a virtual horizontal top tube would intersect the seat tube."

Reference: Seat Tube Length (Effective) | www.bikecad.ca
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 08-08-15, 11:36 PM
  #38  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 77
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Just so nobody thinks I made it up:

"The effective seat tube length is the distance between the bottom bracket and the point at which a virtual horizontal top tube would intersect the seat tube."

Reference: Seat Tube Length (Effective) | www.bikecad.ca
Informative link to a noob like me. Thanks!
pakk is offline  
Old 08-09-15, 04:51 AM
  #39  
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The two measurements I look at first are ETT and standover. Also, I use PBH, not pants inseam as the basis for standover. In this case, a 54 specialized and 53 BD are pretty darn close.

I think I could make either a 51 or 53 BD work. I can't say I'd look forward to dropping nearly a K without test riding first though.

I'd love to buy one of their ti frames, but I'm in between sizes there as well, from what I recall.

I'm literally thinking of buying both sizes and returning the size I don't want if I go BD ti.

The ti and steel BD bikes are smokin deals though. If I were quite certain about geo, I would buy without hesitation.
sam_cyclist is offline  
Old 08-09-15, 06:56 AM
  #40  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,367

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3071 Post(s)
Liked 1,624 Times in 999 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
That is like saying, "36 is the pants size, not the waist size". What do you think the bike size means...at least roughly?

This is ridiculous. When top tubes were horizontal, the size was the seat tube (not post) length either to the center of the top tube or to the top of the top tube...in most cases. If you rode a 54 cm bike back then, and haven't changed your riding style or shrunk too much from age, you most likely would ride one now. Certainly I still do. So with a sloping top tube, the actual seat tube length no longer corresponds to that same size as it used to. So what measurement does correspond to that size? The seat tube length extended all the way up to the top of the effective top tube, just as if the top tube were still horizontal. That is the effective seat tube length. I didn't make it up. Most bike brands gives their bikes nominal sizes based on their correspondence to bikes sizes that were formerly based on seat tube length WHEN TOP TUBES WERE HORIZONTAL. That seat tube length used to be the actual length, but now it is more properly called the effective seat tube length.

Just a few brands give their bikes nominal sizes that are based on the shorter actual seat tube length. BD does that. So their 51 cm bike fits like most other brands 54 cm bike. (Their top tube doesn't slope very much, hence only a 3 cm differential between actual and effective seat tube length. This really isn't rocket science. Why are you so insistent on not seeing what is staring you right in the face?

As far as looking it up on the geometry chart, that is the key to understanding what I am saying. If you did it, you would understand. If you don't care to look it up, why are you arguing with me?

I'm just trying to help OP understand that his 51 cm BD bike is about the same size as a 54 cm bike from most other brands and why that is the case i.e. because BD uses a different sizing system than we normally see. I'm trying to help him. I can't see how your denying the obvious is helping at all.
You're trying to help the OP by making a random measurement the centerpiece of a sizing discussion? Excuse me, but I think that's crazy. Producers list the exact seatpost length (either C-T or C-C) give TT, or ETT , stack, reach, seatube angle and other measurements, any of which are more important to the practical impact of frame size, i.e. fit, than EST. No one lists EST, so it can't even be referenced, and assuming a frame size is derived from EST when it's not derived from ST is not necessarily accurate either...not that it matters. When a manufacturer says their 51 fits like a 54, it's because of TT length, not because of EST.

Seat tube length, whether actual, effective, Martian or whatever you want to call it, is literally the LAST frame size dimension anyone needs to worry about. Seatposts offer practically infinite adjustability.

But, if you want to send the poor OP on a wild goose chase for pointless, virtual measurements and call that "helping them," you're entitled to do that, but I think it's unfortunate.
chaadster is offline  
Old 08-09-15, 07:08 AM
  #41  
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. I did not mean that most bike makers list effective seat tube as a measurement in their geometry chart. I meant that their size numbers at the top of the column closely relate to the EST. So a size 54 Tarmac roughly has a 54 cm EST. With BD and a few others the situation is different. In those cases the size number at the top of the column closely relate to the actual seat tube length. That is the difference that causes confusion. Neither number should be the be all and end all of bike choosing and bike fitting. But the difference does explain why two companies whose bikes would fit similarly call them different sizes. And in case anyone remembers, that is all I was trying to inform OP of in the first place.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...

Last edited by rpenmanparker; 08-09-15 at 07:22 AM.
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 08-09-15, 07:58 AM
  #42  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
*Ranting about effective seat tube measurements*

For those of you who don't think I bought the right size, I did. It feels right. That's what matters. A new stem might be a good buy down the line, but for now I like it. I looked at the top tube measurements to make my decision, mostly. I based it off of other bikes that I rode that felt comfortable (Kona Honkey Tonk and Jamis Quest).

Quit yelling about imaginary measurements that are susceptible to change (everything is adjustable) and go for a ride. That's what I'm doing. On my shiny new bike
lkngro is offline  
Old 08-09-15, 08:02 AM
  #43  
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by lkngro
*Ranting about effective seat tube measurements*

For those of you who don't think I bought the right size, I did. It feels right. That's what matters. A new stem might be a good buy down the line, but for now I like it. I looked at the top tube measurements to make my decision, mostly. I based it off of other bikes that I rode that felt comfortable (Kona Honkey Tonk and Jamis Quest).

Quit yelling about imaginary measurements that are susceptible to change (everything is adjustable) and go for a ride. That's what I'm doing. On my shiny new bike
You're welcome!
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 08-09-15, 08:19 AM
  #44  
Thread Killer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,367

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3071 Post(s)
Liked 1,624 Times in 999 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Maybe I didn't make it clear enough. I did not mean that most bike makers list effective seat tube as a measurement in their geometry chart. I meant that their size numbers at the top of the column closely relate to the EST. So a size 54 Tarmac roughly has a 54 cm EST. With BD and a few others the situation is different. In those cases the size number at the top of the column closely relate to the actual seat tube length. That is the difference that causes confusion. Neither number should be the be all and end all of bike choosing and bike fitting. But the difference does explain why two companies whose bikes would fit similarly call them different sizes. And in case anyone remembers, that is all I was trying to inform OP of in the first place.
Yes, that's much better...and I'll add on the matter of "Why is my frame a 54 when there's nothing 54cm on it?" that some manufacturers base frame sizing off other measures than EST. Surly, for example, measure seat tube from BB center to top of the TT junction (C-TJ?) to arrive at listed frame size.

So yes, frame size discrepancies for a given number exist, and for myriad reasons, not just EST (which I still hate and think is utterly pointless and obfuscating).

Giant, the first to bring compact geometry to the market and the world's largest bike manufacturer, use S, M, M/L, and L to designate frame size, which is probably the most easily comprehensible protocol we've got going, and requires no arcane knowledge or tie to a long-gone, historical "standard" which was never standardized.
chaadster is offline  
Old 08-10-15, 11:48 PM
  #45  
Senior Member
 
a1penguin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 3,209
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 139 Post(s)
Liked 33 Times in 20 Posts
Originally Posted by rpenmanparker
Just so nobody thinks I made it up:

"The effective seat tube length is the distance between the bottom bracket and the point at which a virtual horizontal top tube would intersect the seat tube."

Reference: Seat Tube Length (Effective) | www.bikecad.ca
Isn't that stack and reach? Effective top tube and effective seat tube if the top tube were horizontal? With sloping top tubes, most women can ride man-sized bikes.
a1penguin is offline  
Old 08-11-15, 06:47 AM
  #46  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Madison, IN
Posts: 1,351

Bikes: 2015 Jamis Quest Comp

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 270 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Oh, I saw that this thread had a new comment, and I thought someone had might have commented on the Motobecane...nevermind. :-)
12strings is offline  
Old 08-11-15, 06:53 AM
  #47  
Senior Member
 
rpenmanparker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 28,682

Bikes: 1990 Romic Reynolds 531 custom build, Merlin Works CR Ti custom build, super light Workswell 066 custom build

Mentioned: 109 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6556 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 58 Times in 36 Posts
Originally Posted by a1penguin
Isn't that stack and reach? Effective top tube and effective seat tube if the top tube were horizontal? With sloping top tubes, most women can ride man-sized bikes.
Not quite stack and reach, which are the best bike size indicators. ETT has the problem of being dependent upon the seat tube angle which reach doesn't. Similarly, EST doesn't take into account the head tube height from the BB, which stack does. In stack and reach both are related to the bottom bracket as a fixed point.
__________________
Robert

Originally Posted by LAJ
No matter where I go, here I am...
rpenmanparker is offline  
Old 08-14-15, 06:47 AM
  #48  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Madison, IN
Posts: 1,351

Bikes: 2015 Jamis Quest Comp

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 270 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Man! Too many choices! I just ran across this from nashbar. Very tempting.

Nashbar Steel Cyclocross Bike

$100 less than the Bikes direct bike, probably heavier, steel fork, 105 set. Crappy brakes.

Overall, probably a bit slower than both the Motobecane and the Jamis Quest comp, but tempting enough to make me want to buy it to try it out...since nashbar seems to have a pretty good return policy.
12strings is offline  
Old 08-14-15, 08:26 AM
  #49  
The Fat Guy In The Back
 
Tundra_Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 2,524

Bikes: '81 Panasonic Sport, '02 Giant Boulder SE, '08 Felt S32, '10 Diamondback Insight RS, '10 Windsor Clockwork, '15 Kestrel Evoke 3.0, '19 Salsa Mukluk

Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 319 Post(s)
Liked 161 Times in 108 Posts
Originally Posted by 12strings
Man! Too many choices! I just ran across this from nashbar. Very tempting.

Nashbar Steel Cyclocross Bike

$100 less than the Bikes direct bike, probably heavier, steel fork, 105 set. Crappy brakes.

Overall, probably a bit slower than both the Motobecane and the Jamis Quest comp, but tempting enough to make me want to buy it to try it out...since nashbar seems to have a pretty good return policy.
I have a friend who bought that Nashbar bike last year. He waited for a sale and got it for around $680 IIRC. It's pretty nice bike for what it is. Not terribly heavy, but not terribly light. The color is stunning out in the sun. He has it built up as a commuter and I think it works well for that purpose. If you're looking for a dedicated road bike though, I don't think you'd be happy with this bike simply because it's not intended to be a dedicated road bike.
__________________
Visit me at the Tundra Man Workshop
Tundra_Man is offline  
Old 08-14-15, 08:42 AM
  #50  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,517
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 276 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by 12strings
Man! Too many choices! I just ran across this from nashbar. Very tempting.

Nashbar Steel Cyclocross Bike

$100 less than the Bikes direct bike, probably heavier, steel fork, 105 set. Crappy brakes.

Overall, probably a bit slower than both the Motobecane and the Jamis Quest comp, but tempting enough to make me want to buy it to try it out...since nashbar seems to have a pretty good return policy.
BD has a very similar cross bike for the same price except there's has a lugged fork, comes in chrome and has free shipping and no tax.

Free Shipping* Save up to 60% off new Cyclocross Road Bikes - Motobecane Fantom CX Clearance

But yeah, if you want a dedicated road bike you may be let down. Canti brakes are not great for serious road riding, tires are big and heavy and gearing is too low
rms13 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.