3alarmer 

... going both ways is the most logical approach if you want to increase your odds of scoring.

3alarmer 

.
...I was in the local Sears store two nights ago picking up a 38mm impact socket from their online order pickup window. Fans of choice will be excited to learn that Sears has no fewer than three full disc braked bicycle models on the floor currently, all imported directly from China. #makeAmericagreatagain

bt

Remember, for you guys and gals that get "stuck" with a disc bike, you can't simply swap out a few parts to go back to caliper brakes.


Sorry

dksix

I have no doubts that hydraulic disc systems are superior to rim brakes and given everything else being equal I'd rather have the disc but feel bmcer makes very good points. I wouldn't pay an extra few hundred dollars to get a disc bike over a non disc, I wouldn't replace equipment that was working great for me just for disc and I wouldn't lug around 5 more pounds of bike to just have disc. I am really close to buying my first road bike, unless a great deal in the used market comes up I'll be buying new. Disc brakes are on the desirable feature list but I'm finding as time comes closer to me actually letting go of the money things like component level, component quality and weight are beating out disc as a deciding factor. I was just comparing the Fuji Rouaix 1.0 ($999) and Sportif 1.1 ($989) both with 105 components but the Rouaix seems to have a bit better quality stuff everywhere getting it down to an 18.26# listed weight where the Sportif has disc brakes and weighs a hefty 22.68#. Yes I feel hydraulic disc are better than rim brakes, maybe cable disc are too but I doubt I would be able to exceed either of those braking systems abilities but I know the almost 5 pounds will be noticeable. I've spent most of my life riding motor cycles and if 5 pounds is noticeable on a 250# dirt bike it's really going to be felt on an 18-22 pound bike.

Campag4life

It isn't a matter of having more choices but rather what style of brake works best for a given rider. Disks have 'issues' compared to more minimalist caliper brakes. But if living in the mountains and doing a lot of high speed descending or riding a lot in winter conditions with a lot of precip, I personally believe disks are better. But I don't live in mountains and more than not don't either. Most of us try to ride in drier and not wetter conditions as well. Btw, calipers still work ok in the mountains and also in the wet although adjustments have to be made. So for cost, weight, aerodynamics, ease of maintenance calipers make more sense. Again, I have owned both. I prefer calipers on my road bikes and don't want all the downside for equivalent braking in dry. Btw, by contrast, I don't want caliper brakes on a motorcycle....I prefer disk brakes. I like disk brakes on a car as well versus drum brakes.

Stucky

With the industry pushing disc brakes and wider tires so heavily, I fear that the average road bike is going to morph into a de facto cross bike, weighing c. 23 lbs.; and that real road bikes will become rare. I don't like the trends I see in current road bikes (And those trends are not organic- i.e. not consumer-driven -but rather, industry-pushed)- just gimme a plain-old simple skinny-tired rim-braked road bike!

Bandera

Actually for most road riders who are not shadowed by a team car with spare wheels, rain jackets and tasty snacks a more practical bike would be a big improvement over what Captain Fast poses at Starbucks with.
Provisions for mounting fenders with clearance for wider tires in a lightweight supple riding design intended for long self supported miles at pace like the Club and Randonneur bikes of the 70's executed with modern materials and components would be a great design.



If Merckx had added four 5mm fender mounts I'd there now.

-Bandera

woodcraft

I talked to a guy yesterday that is set on replacing his

top of the line CF frame cyclocross bike with a disk brake bike.

He doesn't race, or even ride on the dirt, but lives up a very steep hill.

I may be able to pick up the CX bike for a bargain price.

To me, this is the best feature of the current disk brake situation.

elcruxio

Still funnily enough a road bike with a bit longer wheelbase, a bit longer chainstays, a bit more fork offset and slacker headtube angle rides a lot better on the road than the road racing bikes people are used to getting. The only difference then to a crossbike is that the CX has the BB a little higher, which to me has absolutely no effect on road handling at said proportions of differences.
And you're still going to be as fast through the corners as the limiting factor it traction and not bike geometry. And while we're at it, why wouldn't a cross bike have even more traction since it allows for bigger tires and can have a better weigth balance so as to maximize traction for both tires.

Add disc brakes and suddenly you'll have a bike that's extremely stable on the straights, descends like a missile, handles fast speeds beautifully AND you can take it on gravel if you put larger tires on AND ride in any condition, including snow (studs baby!)
The only thing it might not excel is crit racing which is a niche for most road riders anyways.
Never understood why people need twitchy crit bikes when most of what they do is ride in a straight line.

cruiserhead

1. Pricepoints.
There are pricepoints for everything. Not all rim brakes are equal.
The Oval brakes on a Roubaix are not equivalent in price or performance to Dura Ace calipers.

Same goes for comparisons to disc brakes.

2. Weight difference.
There is not a 5lb weight difference between rim and hydro discs.
You are comparing two different bikes -for two different markets-at a certain pricepoint.

3. Choice
If you feel the Roubaix fits your needs and price, at a lighter weight than why not buy it?

It's nice to have choices.

at the higher end of the performance/cost spectrum, the weight difference between rim and disc versions is around 350g

cruiserhead

Why would you want to?
A caliper only bike can't go to disc either so I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Bandera

Get it out for a very thorough test ride.
If you haven't raced 'cross the requirements are not the same as for a road bike.
Typically the frame/fork materials are beefed up for the demands of going hard on rough unpaved race courses and the TT is flattened for the carry, both add weight that is unnecessary for road riding.
A few grams may not matter much but the ride can be very harsh compared to a road frame if you go down to 23-25mm tires for fast paced club ridiing.
If you go mechanical, as I would, the exotic derail cable routing to keep the gunk out in 'cross can make for a very temperamental and high maintenance set-up.

Other than that............

-Bandera

dksix

I was speaking specifically of these 2 bikes, each being on my list that I'm seriously considering. I don't know what the weight difference is between a complete disc setup and a complete rim setup but on these 2 bikes the disc system is the biggest difference and the weigh difference is almost 5# according to the Fuji site. I realize that the Roubaix has some higher level (probably being lighter) components than the Sportif but both being $1K I'd rather have the one that weighs 5 pounds less because in my riding that's going to have a more positive impact on me.

woodcraft

Thanks for the pointers.

I've had the same bike (Spec Crux) in alloy frame for several years.

Have only done one actual race so far, but have about 300 miles on it this year- mostly fire roads, single track, & mixed rides. Just getting going prepping for some races in the fall.

The road bike gets the most action...

Stucky

Oh, I agree with ya's- I've actually been considering getting a tourer [Not for touring- just for practicality]- but the thing is, there are people who want Corvettes, and there are people who want pick-up trucks. Morphing the Corvette into a pick-up may suit some would-be pick-up drivers, but it's not going to suit the sports car crowd.

Same with bikes. Nothing beats the lightness and nimbleness of a road bike. Even though I've never raced, and never will; and have no interest in racing, I sure do appreciate the handling characteristics of a road racing bike- and even find them quite comfortable, and versatile- even here in the sticks. Lioke I said, I may get a tourer next- but I'll still be putting the majority of miles on my racer. What you get from a road bike, is probably what attracts a lot of people to the sport, and addicts them; it's special. If the industry loses sight of that effortlessly-glides-forever-nimbleness which is characteristic of good road bikes, they will be depriving people of one of the chief attractions of cycling.

bt

because you may realize disc brakes aren't your fancy at some point and wish you could go back to the original.

bt

anyone remember the "new coca cola"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Coke


reminds me of this "disc brake" on road bike hysteria.

Reynolds 

Rivendell?

Bandera

As far as I'm aware a CF frameset is not available from Grant & Co.
The quality steel framesets that I do have simply lack the performance of the CF Merckx, which is has good clearance but alas no mudguard mounts.
An otherwise excellent design for moving along on rough surfaces at pace for considerable distances in very hilly terrain, just not in the rain.
It does rain even in TX and certainly in Belgium.....................????

-Bandera

elcruxio

Don't get a tourer. Touring frames ride badly unloaded because of the beefed up tubeset.
Get an audax/randonnee bike. Those are meant for road but carry light loads

Fox Farm

1. I was not at this race to see the line of approach to that corner, however the rider who crashed came in was too far to the left, regardless of his out of control speed; 2. I was noticing that many riders took that corner with the wrong line of attack as they hit it solo; 3. I was wondering how many had actually ridden this course prior; 4. I agree that the traffic jam of support cars and motorcycles made things worse.

Bandera

Agree: The traditional Audax/Rando designs used the same lightweight tubing as the road racing bikes of the day but offered clearance for wider tires and mudguard fitting.
British geometry was designed for a seatbag while the French preferred a handle bar bag/decauler/rack to carry enough stuff for long unsupported rides at pace.
The result was a light lively machine that was highly versatile and capable of paceline operation in wet weather w/o soaking following riders and oneself w/ road spooge.



The modern generation of Endurance bikes are edging closer to the same idea but the lack of fender/rack fittings limits their usefulness.
For those of us who no longer compete or have no interest in racing but still cover considerable ground briskly on less than ideal surfaces in sketchy weather a thoroughly modern New-Audax would be welcome.
It was just this demographic of experienced club riders who could afford it that purchased the elegant and useful Paramount P-15 "back when", not dedicated race bikes.

-Bandera

elcruxio

I would imagine you can already get a pretty modern audax made in steel. And you can always just get a frame and pimp out the groupset/wheels to your liking. It's only when you really want carbon you run into trouble but even then there are the gravel grinders which are kinda like Audax bikes.
But it is a pretty strange thing that manufacturers have not woken up on the possibility of the multi use / audax road bike in the high end, ie. carbon.

merlinextraligh

Very few. It's not the way Professional road racing works. The guy who crashed was Irish on an African team. He might not have ever been to Utah before. And even if you've done the Tour of Utah before, the stages change each year.

During the race, you're riding, eating, sleeping, transferring to the next stage. There's not time for reconnaissance. After the race you're on to the next race, where you often get there the day before. There's not time to pre ride 6 100 mile plus courses.

So you're typically racing on descents that you have not seen before.

(And btw, all that crap about Armstrong recon'ing the climbs in the TDF to give him an advantage, was just a means to traina way from the drug testers, but that's another story).

Bandera

Indeed, pic #3 above is my Audax-ish bike rigged out for Winter/Wet. A nice machine w/ traditional steel frame and modern-ish components.
I'd still like to see the tech used lately in Paris Roubaix incorporated into a proper Audax/Rando design.

Captain Fast posing at Starbucks w/ the latest Team Shy Pinnalized-Specerello replica replete w/ hydraulic shifting and 'lectric brakes need not be one's role model.

-Bandera