SRAM eTap
08-26-15, 09:56 AM
#26
pan y agua
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Anybody else think the RD looks weird with no cable or wire between it and the frame?
Looks like a bike being built up, with the cables not installed yet. Somehow unfinished. I'm sure I'll get used to it. But looking at bikes for 40 years with some sort of loop between RD and frame it looks odd for now.
Looks like a bike being built up, with the cables not installed yet. Somehow unfinished. I'm sure I'll get used to it. But looking at bikes for 40 years with some sort of loop between RD and frame it looks odd for now.
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08-26-15, 09:58 AM
#27
pan y agua
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As well as 50 people in a room all using their cell phones simultaneously. Do you find other cell phones interfering with yours?
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08-26-15, 10:00 AM
#28
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08-26-15, 10:04 AM
#29
pan y agua
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Point is wireless technology has gotten pretty good at encryption, and avoiding interference.
I'd be more concerned about the connection just dropping out from some interference, and it not shifting or a shift being delayed, than of someone else shifting for me, which I think is likely a completely unfounded worry.
I'd be more concerned about the connection just dropping out from some interference, and it not shifting or a shift being delayed, than of someone else shifting for me, which I think is likely a completely unfounded worry.
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You could hit a tree and die.
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08-26-15, 10:06 AM
#30
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Point is wireless technology has gotten pretty good at encryption, and avoiding interference.
I'd be more concerned about the connection just dropping out from some interference, and it not shifting or a shift being delayed, than of someone else shifting for me, which I think is likely a completely unfounded worry.
I'd be more concerned about the connection just dropping out from some interference, and it not shifting or a shift being delayed, than of someone else shifting for me, which I think is likely a completely unfounded worry.
08-26-15, 10:06 AM
#31
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Point is wireless technology has gotten pretty good at encryption, and avoiding interference.
I'd be more concerned about the connection just dropping out from some interference, and it not shifting or a shift being delayed, than of someone else shifting for me, which I think is likely a completely unfounded worry.
I'd be more concerned about the connection just dropping out from some interference, and it not shifting or a shift being delayed, than of someone else shifting for me, which I think is likely a completely unfounded worry.
08-26-15, 10:15 AM
#33
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08-26-15, 10:16 AM
#34
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08-26-15, 10:23 AM
#35
wears long socks
They are also virtually impossible to hack and will not pick up any interference.
08-26-15, 10:24 AM
#36
wears long socks
It looks like its using Blueooth PAN to make the connection. There's no security in it as far as I'm aware and the technology is still new so that may change. The only way to sync a device is by having physical access to it. So yes, my concern would be more about interference.
08-26-15, 10:29 AM
#37
Senior Member
One nice advantage is the easier shifting interface. Right harder; left easier.
Shimano should take note. Electronic shifting systems don't need to mimic cables. Once manufacturers get that, then the shifting interface can be improved.
SRAM's eTap: Shifting finally makes sense - VeloNews.com
Shimano should take note. Electronic shifting systems don't need to mimic cables. Once manufacturers get that, then the shifting interface can be improved.
SRAM's eTap: Shifting finally makes sense - VeloNews.com
That was my thought too. I have a Di2 bike and a mech bike. I like the Di2 so much, I had thought about converting the mech frame over but the conversion if it isn't set up for is ugly - ugly enough to not do it. This has me looking at that as a project again.
With Di2, and a frame designed for it, you can route the wires so the only exposed parts are a junction box, the size of a small cycle computer, typically obscured under the stem, a wire from the junction box to the frame, which runs with the rear brake cable, so no additional clutter, and a wire out the frame to the RD about a foot long.
So you're trading easier setup, and avoiding 18" of wire exposed, and a junction box, for keeping up with 4 batteries.
unless you're retrofitting an old frame I don't see that to be terribly compelling either way.
Question will be how well it shifts, and how reliable.
Also aesthetically, Dura Ace Di2, with a seatpost battery is sleeker than having batteries on each derailleur.
So you're trading easier setup, and avoiding 18" of wire exposed, and a junction box, for keeping up with 4 batteries.
unless you're retrofitting an old frame I don't see that to be terribly compelling either way.
Question will be how well it shifts, and how reliable.
Also aesthetically, Dura Ace Di2, with a seatpost battery is sleeker than having batteries on each derailleur.
J.
08-26-15, 10:49 AM
#38
Senior Member
It looks like its using Blueooth PAN to make the connection. There's no security in it as far as I'm aware and the technology is still new so that may change. The only way to sync a device is by having physical access to it. So yes, my concern would be more about interference.
08-26-15, 10:55 AM
#39
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For those worried about security:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanc...ption_Standard
"As for now, there are no known practical attacks that would allow anyone to read correctly implemented AES encrypted data."
I work with cryptography some so when they said that "AES 128" was used to encrypt the connection, I knew it would be fine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanc...ption_Standard
"As for now, there are no known practical attacks that would allow anyone to read correctly implemented AES encrypted data."
I work with cryptography some so when they said that "AES 128" was used to encrypt the connection, I knew it would be fine.
08-26-15, 11:04 AM
#41
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Let's cut to the chase. It is a phenomenal accomplishment and development. This will give SRAM a huge boost in market share. Wireless is the only sensible appraoch. The DI2 control box and wire connections are a frequent source of malfunction. Managing the multiple batteries will surely turn out to be a non-issue. I'm watching prices.
Props to SRAM. They have done a great job and deserve the credit.
Props to SRAM. They have done a great job and deserve the credit.
08-26-15, 11:11 AM
#42
SuperGimp
08-26-15, 11:12 AM
#43
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Completely OT, but it's fun to see a friend's disbelief when her hubby, who is reasonably prominent in cryptography, is given the semi-rock-star treatment at conferences and whatnot. She thinks that it's totally weird that many geeks look up to him.
08-26-15, 11:12 AM
#44
Emondafied
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I really like this. Very F1-style. If I was kitting out a new bike, it would be hard to resist going with this group.
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08-26-15, 11:16 AM
#45
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Let's cut to the chase. It is a phenomenal accomplishment and development. This will give SRAM a huge boost in market share. Wireless is the only sensible appraoch. The DI2 control box and wire connections are a frequent source of malfunction. Managing the multiple batteries will surely turn out to be a non-issue. I'm watching prices.
Props to SRAM. They have done a great job and deserve the credit.
Props to SRAM. They have done a great job and deserve the credit.
We just don't know the "job" they've done so far. It's going to take a lot of units in the field to make that point. I do agree that it looks interesting, especially as a retrofit on mech bikes.
I heard somewhere that Shimano had a wireless design too. Be great if they popped that out for competition to help drive prices down. Isn't the FSA system partially wireless- wireless shifters but the FD and RD wired together with a single battery? That might have a more reliable architecture.
J.
08-26-15, 11:17 AM
#46
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Let's cut to the chase. It is a phenomenal accomplishment and development. This will give SRAM a huge boost in market share. Wireless is the only sensible appraoch. The DI2 control box and wire connections are a frequent source of malfunction. Managing the multiple batteries will surely turn out to be a non-issue. I'm watching prices.
Props to SRAM. They have done a great job and deserve the credit.
Props to SRAM. They have done a great job and deserve the credit.
I'll wait for the Shimano offering.
08-26-15, 11:23 AM
#47
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My prediction is that the SRAM approach will work fine and drive the entire market to wireless. If FSA makes the mistake of including any wires at all (not entirely clear at this time), they will be bringing up the rear. And that would be a shame. Another viable competitor would be a good thing.
Last edited by rpenmanparker; 08-26-15 at 11:48 AM.
08-26-15, 11:28 AM
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My prediction is that the SRAM approach will work fine and drive the entire market to wireless. If FSA makes the mistake of including any wires at all (not entirely clear at this time), they will be bringing up the rear. And that woukd be a shame. Another viable competitor would be a good thing.
all the numerous batteries will muzzle sales.
08-26-15, 11:29 AM
#49
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Robert, considering my own experiences with SRAM, I'm not betting on its reliability.
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08-26-15, 11:38 AM
#50
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My prediction is that the SRAM approach will work fine and drive the entire market to wireless. If FSA makes the mistake of including any wires at all (not entirely clear at this time), they will be bringing up the rear. And that woukd be a shame. Another viable competitor would be a good thing.